Wolfman: Yay or Nay?

[Crazy1van]

I say thee, YAY!!

Loved every minute of it.

[GAKENSTEIN]

Really wanted Lawrence to use the cane to beat John's head from his smoldering shoulders.

Now THAT would have been brilliant!  An ironic reversal of the '41 original...Have Larry thwack Papa John to death with the cane.  And then Gwen comes in and shoots Larry with the silver bullet.

BTW, the cane is sadly underused in the film; it is shown to be Larry's, but what of its origins?  An actor's prop/affectation??  Does he need it to get around?? They should have said it was a family heirloom, making it more powerful emotionally if he were to kill his father with it.  They even show Abberline taking it with him to hunt Larry down at the end, but then it is ignored.

[Crazy1van]

Now THAT would have been brilliant!  An ironic reversal of the '41 original...Have Larry thwack Papa John to death with the cane.  And then Gwen comes in and shoots Larry with the silver bullet.

BTW, the cane is sadly underused in the film; it is shown to be Larry's, but what of its origins?  An actor's prop/affectation??  Does he need it to get around?? They should have said it was a family heirloom, making it more powerful emotionally if he were to kill his father with it.  They even show Abberline taking it with him to hunt Larry down at the end, but then it is ignored.

I imagine that Larry received the cane from his brother years earlier, and carries it with him because it reminds him of better times with his family, before the death of his mother.  Afterwards, Inspector Abberline hangs onto the cane, but when he does NOT turn into a werewolf, he decides it reminds him of a horrible period in his life and sells it to Gwen Conliffe's antique shoppe.  By this time, Gwen has too much tragedy associated with both London and Blackmoore, so she moves to Llanwelly, Wales and reopens the shop there, with her brother taking over soon after.  Her brother's daughter, also named Gwen, eventually sells the cane to another member of the Talbot family...

[depressedlarrytalbot]

Her brother's daughter, also named Gwen, eventually sells the cane to another member of the Talbot family...

Oh Gods. Ivan, you must walk not run to

http://www.pjfarmer.com/woldnewton/talbot.gif

and

http://www.pjfarmer.com/woldnewton/Talbot.pdf

... assuming you haven't already, that is.  You will love it.

[Crazy1van]

Oh Gods. Ivan, you must walk not run to

http://www.pjfarmer.com/woldnewton/talbot.gif

and

http://www.pjfarmer.com/woldnewton/Talbot.pdf

... assuming you haven't already, that is.  You will love it.

Seriously?? I WROTE that article!!

[depressedlarrytalbot]

Huh. Really ? Well I guess that would explain it .... so I'll take your earlier post as a preview of your next update to same, now that the new Wolfman is upon us.

Aw feel right honoured, aw dew.

[depressedlarrytalbot]

Actually, deja vu .... I believe you disclosed this authorship at a much earlier date somewhere hereabouts, but clearly, I forgot. 

[darkmonkeygod]

Now THAT would have been brilliant!  An ironic reversal of the '41 original...Have Larry thwack Papa John to death with the cane.  And then Gwen comes in and shoots Larry with the silver bullet.

Thanks. That's why they pay me... oh, damn.

BTW, the cane is sadly underused in the film; it is shown to be Larry's, but what of its origins?  An actor's prop/affectation??  Does he need it to get around?? They should have said it was a family heirloom, making it more powerful emotionally if he were to kill his father with it.  They even show Abberline taking it with him to hunt Larry down at the end, but then it is ignored.

The cane is in Abberline's hand at the end as he looks toward the moon with this ragged shoulder. I honestly think they were going for a continuation of the "which will he choose" theme which was heavily dampened or edited out of the film. There seems to have been a "love conquers curse" element in earlier drafts, but it's been so long since I read the write up of it I just don't fully remember

[Wolf Man]

Hey, just saw it again.  Better second time around.  I recommend seeing it more than once. 

Crazy1van, on your Talbot family tree why did you go back to the 500's and Bodvar Bjarki?  He was the leader of the Bear clan born to Bjorn and Bera.  He was one of Danish King Hrólfr Kraki's men.  He and his clan were known as Berserkers.  Ulfhednar were the wolf versions of that.  The Berserkers wore bear skins and were thought to have bear powers and abilities.  The Ulfhednar wore wolf skins and similarly thought to have wolf speed and agility.  So I was curious if there was some other reason you chose Bodvar Bjarki? 

I am the leader of the Bear Clan, a Norse clan of warrior reenactors.  So this is kind of my field and traced the Bear Clan or using the Norse word "Aett" back to its inception in the 500's by Bodvar Bjarki. 

I found it fascinating though that there was indeed a wolf version called Ulfhednar.  Berserkers just got a bit more press I believe. 

Interesting read, the family tree.  I did not read your whole article yet but I will.  Thanks for writing it. 

[SirJon]

There seems to have been a "love conquers curse" element in earlier drafts, but it's been so long since I read the write up of it I just don't fully remember

Please, where did you read this write up?
Very interested in reading it for myself.

Thanks!
-sir jon

[Gillman-Fan]

Just got back . . . gotta say "Nay".

[Crazy1van]

Hey, just saw it again.  Better second time around.  I recommend seeing it more than once.  

Crazy1van, on your Talbot family tree why did you go back to the 500's and Bodvar Bjarki?  He was the leader of the Bear clan born to Bjorn and Bera.  He was one of Danish King Hrólfr Kraki's men.  He and his clan were known as Berserkers.  Ulfhednar were the wolf versions of that.  The Berserkers wore bear skins and were thought to have bear powers and abilities.  The Ulfhednar wore wolf skins and similarly thought to have wolf speed and agility.  So I was curious if there was some other reason you chose Bodvar Bjarki?  

I am the leader of the Bear Clan, a Norse clan of warrior reenactors.  So this is kind of my field and traced the Bear Clan or using the Norse word "Aett" back to its inception in the 500's by Bodvar Bjarki.  

I found it fascinating though that there was indeed a wolf version called Ulfhednar.  Berserkers just got a bit more press I believe.  

Interesting read, the family tree.  I did not read your whole article yet but I will.  Thanks for writing it.  

Thanks for responding, and congrats on getting to be the leader of the bear clan!

The reason that Bodvar is listed is that, in his massive article on the origin and condition of Dr Jekyll & Mr Hyde, Dennis Power originally sited Lupe as a descendant of Bjarki, and as the originator of the THERIOMOPHISM condition to the Talbot family.  Dennis believed that the bipedal flat-faced "Wolf Man" came about as a combination of the quadrupedal werewolf of germanic legend with the typically bipedal werebear.  I do not agree with this, since Wulver, Cynocephali, and plenty of other bipedal homo lupis exist in legend and cryptozoology from earlier sources than the 1700s.  In fact, I believe that Rollo brought at least a few Ulfhednar with him to Normandy in 911, and that the Norman  surname Talbert was assumed by at least one of them.  From there it's easy to get the Talbots into England with William the Conqueror and across the British Empire.  However, I cannot refute the lineage Dennis Power produced, so I include it as part of the therianthropic ancestry of Lawrence Talbot.

Off topic, but what name do you use in your reenactments?

[Wolf Man]

My Norse name is Erik the Bear.  I actually build the Bear Clan up from nothing about fourteen years ago and have a good group of Viking warriors along with several very attractive Norse ladies. 

It would make sense that Lawrence is descendant from Ulfhednar.  His father claims in the film he is heir to his kingdom. 

[Gillman-Fan]

A couple (possible spoiler) questions regarding this film:

- Are we to believe that Sir John is dead at the end? He was decapitated and burned but was there silver involved?

- Aberline (who does precious little policework IMO) gets bitten but there's no resolution . . . sequel? He did wind up with the cane, after all.

I can't believe I'm admitting this BUT the single coolest moment for me was at the very end when Larry turns human before dying . . . awesomely subtle CGI work where you only see a small portion of his face from behind.

The final death scene (and dialog) was quite possibly the single most contrived thing I've sat through in ages. The young lady I was with laughed out loud and said "Jebus, how corny can you get!".

[darkmonkeygod]

Please, where did you read this write up?
Very interested in reading it for myself.

Thanks!
-sir jon

I've looked around online for the script review and did not find it. The first daft of this film popped up sometime in 2006, so it's bee a long slog. I read the trades and browse websites like AICN, Latino Review and CHUD, plus dipped my toe in the industry some years back and still swap stories with some of those folks I knew from then who are still in it now. With all of that info poured in over all that time, I can't say with any certainty where I got the idea/memory of "love conquers curse" from, hence the caveat in my earlier post.

My sense of it was jogged during the film when Maleva is sewing Larry up - dialogue about man and beast - and when she appears again in the stable asking Gwen if she loves Larry. In the end, Wolfman Larry does pause over Gwen rather than shredding her like everyone else, losing himself again to the beast when the sound of the hunt agitates him. The implication is he's in there, somewhere. Hopkins speech in the loony bin implies some sense of choice as well - that bit was honestly a little confused to me. I think the medallion and love played into the narrative much more in some earlier draft of the story (much as it did in the '41 original).

Here's a link to a tries-to-hard-to-be-entertaining review of a much earlier draft of the script (2007), which if you choose to wade through will give you a sense of how different the final film is:

http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3442&Itemid=99

There were MANY revisions to story on this film - even after principle photography had wrapped - not to mention multiple writers. To give you a idea of how much radically changed for The Wolfman between 2006 and 2010, I remember a review of a draft in which Wolfman Larry dropped into the London zoo and had an encounter with a crocodile. Seriously. That I would like to have seen! If anyone finds that, please post it.