NEWS OF THE WORLD - Current Events (May Be Disturbing, No Politics Please)

[Moonshadow]

I know, it's hard to get people help -it's the double-edged sword of our system. But in situations like this you just wish somehow this could have been averted.

One of my uncles was a paranoid schizophrenic and got really scary -tried burning down his parents' house at one point. That's when they realized they could no longer manage him at home and he had to be institutionalized for a while. It was hard on them having him at home, but also hard on them placing him there too. Sad all the way around. But safer for everyone.

[Unknown Primate]

Been following this on the news.  Terrible & so very sad.  Makes me a bit angry, too.

[charp13]

Moonshadow- I have also been so stunned by this tragedy, that I just cry every time I read another news update. I have only been to Arizona once, but I will always remember the beauty of the Saguaro Nat. Park and the kindness of the people who live there. It's sometimes hard to keep in mind that most people have the best of intentions toward the people they share this planet with, but lately it seems impossible. I hope Arizona and the rest of the country can honor these good peoples' memories by taking some time to talk to their kids and give them some reassurance. Every time something horrible happens, it seems like people lose hope and give up on each other. We have to stick together in times like these and look for a way to carry on and make it better.

[Unknown Primate]

I know it's the law, but they keep referring to this psycho dirtbag as the alleged killer.  Sickening...

[Dr. Madd]

What must be remembered is that this was a crazy person. He was not, despite speculation, attached to the GOP, The tea party, Foxnews or Sarah Palin. He  was on the other side of the political spectrum.
We must keep our heads here and not succumb to emotionalism, as hard as that is.

[Unknown Primate]

To me, he's just a psycho dirtbag - period!

[Moonshadow]

Moonshadow- I have also been so stunned by this tragedy, that I just cry every time I read another news update. I have only been to Arizona once, but I will always remember the beauty of the Saguaro Nat. Park and the kindness of the people who live there. It's sometimes hard to keep in mind that most people have the best of intentions toward the people they share this planet with, but lately it seems impossible. I hope Arizona and the rest of the country can honor these good peoples' memories by taking some time to talk to their kids and give them some reassurance. Every time something horrible happens, it seems like people lose hope and give up on each other. We have to stick together in times like these and look for a way to carry on and make it better.

Too true Charlotte. Even in a tragedy like this, there were people immediately trying to help the injured, people trying to take down the gunman and protect others. I'd rather believe that most people want to help, rather than harm, others.

[Dr. Madd]

To me, he's just a psycho dirtbag - period!

That's the whole point. He is just a psycho dirtbag.

[BaronLatos35]

That's the whole point. He is just a psycho dirtbag.

With easy acess to extended clips.

[Scatter]

Really, mental disease is every bit as real as physical disease. While I despise the way the legal system allows ACTUAL dirtbags to abuse the mental defect defense, the fact remains that there really are folks with genuine mental maladies which they have neither chosen nor can control. And there is no perfect system for dealing with them.

[bigbud]

It all makes me want to stay in the basement....with my toys....with my computer......talking with you guys......

[Scatter]

It all makes me want to stay in the basement....with my toys....with my computer......talking with you guys......

Yup. I plan on being the scary old man who lives surrounded by artifacts from his past.

[bigbud]

You will be the scary old man with da knot on head........

[Dr. Madd]

With easy acess to extended clips.

The extended clip is not the issue. If the weapon itself was at fault, I can blame my ink pen for spelling errors.  The clip is a tool, like any other tool and can only do as much harm as the hand wielding it.

[Halloween Jeff]

Scatter -

Unfortunately, you are correct.  The criminal justice/legal system simply isn't set up to deal with mentally ill offenders.  Much of our jurisprudence on this topic originally comes from the UK, and the case of Daniel M'Naghten and his attempted murder of the English PM in 1843.

His trial gave rise to what is known as the "M'Naghten Rule", which states "to establish a defense on the ground of insanity it must be clearly proven , that the time of committing the act, the party accused was labouring under such a defect of reason from disease of the mind, as not to know the nature and quality of the act he was doing, or if he did know it, that he did not know that what he was doing was wrong".

Part of the problem in the US is there is not an accepted consensus of what mental illness is, or how to define it.  Some states use the M'Naghten Rule, or a variation of same - others use a variation of the American Law Institute (ALI).   he use of the so-called "insanity rule" is used approximately in 1% of all criminal trials in the US - and often fails...the individual is usually committed to a secure psychiatric institution for a period longer than a criminal sentence would be (I should mention at this point that I'm NOT an attorney, and have no legal training...perhaps if one of our members was an attorney he/she could correct anything I have wrong...).

A mental health diagnosis covers a lot of territory......could a diagnosis of a phobic disorder absolve an individual of a crime?  Is it solely psychotic or manic disorders that could be used.....I just don't know.  And even if diagnosed, it doesn't mean that an individual is "insane" - that is a determination that must be made by a Judge.  Any mental health professional can diagnose, but can't diagnose someone as insane. 
And individuals have been found to be mentally ill, and still held responsible for their crimes.

I wrote my these on how individuals moved from the mental health system into the criminal justice system, and spoke at length with everyone concerned:  jailers, the DA, local judges, etc - and the system is broken, my friend.  I wish I had an  easy answer, but I don't.


Bizarro Jeff