Comic Book Collecting

[horrorhunter]

Here's an eBay auction for Werewolf By Night #32 in lower-mid grade.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Werewolf-By-Night-32-1st-Appearance-of-Moon-Knight-HTF-KEY-Solid-VG/383870956223?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649



The book appears to be in the VG range, and the seller seems to be reputable. From the pictures it appears to be in VG (I don't know about the "+" the seller bumped it to. Sellers are fond of over-grading and they love to add the +, but the over-grading is usually much worse than this- usually by one or two whole grades. Maybe it really is VG+ (4.5), it's hard to split hairs on grading, especially going by pictures.)

As of this posting the high bid stands at $550.00 with 1 day and 5 hours to go, and it has 65 bids and 96 watchers.

I'm posting this as a point of conversation about the way prices have skyrocketed concerning back issues in general, and perceived key issues in particular. I'm curious as to what this lower-mid grade copy will bring at auction, and I thought to post it as sort of an example of what's happening in the marketplace regarding back issue prices. WBN #32 has been a sought after book for decades, but only recently have the selling prices for it hit such high levels. Now high grade copies sell for $2K-$3K or more, and even nicer mid-grade copies bring over a grand. Prices fluctuate on Bronze Age books more-so than older books, but when prices get this high and a book gets this desirable to the collecting community then it may be a long time before prices drop. As long as the economy stays fairly stable and civilization continues to persevere then these prices that seem ridiculously high compared to the past look to be a fixture of comic book collecting. Thankfully, so many comics were printed over the years the average collector can still find affordable books to enjoy. Some issues, though, are getting priced out of the average collector's budget.

I've always been a run collector as opposed to limiting myself to what other people chase. I grew up reading Bronze Age Horror comics from all companies and it's my collecting focus (along with some Silver Age). I collect a wide variety of comic book related things, but the Horror books from the '70s are my favorites (along with the monster magazines). Anyway, I completed my runs of most of those books back before all of these prices got out of control. In the '80s and '90s I completed titles like Tomb Of Dracula, Werewolf By Night, Ghost Rider, etc., back when books like WBN #32 and TOD #10 were still in dealers long boxes and they were close to the same prices as the issues around them- like a couple of bucks each (in the early '80s) in most cases. If I didn't already have those issues I would just do without them these days and settle for reprints. I'm glad to have them and I won't be selling my copies since they have personal value to me beyond the money, but if I didn't have them I would have to pass.

Any other opinions on these crazy (to some of us) prices in the current marketplace?

[Hepcat]

Incidentally, I think Irving Novick's artwork on the above covers is simply lousy. But Novick was doing some good artwork for Batman by mid-1968 and I really liked his artwork in The Flash when he took over as the regular artist with issue #200 in 1970.

Hmm, I have to respectfully disagree with you about those Captain Storm covers. With the exception of issue 9, I think Novick was producing artwork on par with many of the other DC staff artists at the time. Incidentally, a panel he drew for All American Men of War 89 (1962) was the basis for Roy Lichenstein's  painting "Whaam" in 1963. Another example of how  a comic draftsmen 's work was "borrowed " by Pop Artists in that time period.

Novick had a long career in comics mostly jumping between bad advertising gigs and the comics publishers.  His early superhero work ( Pep, etc.) doesn't resemble his later war work, just as his later superhero work is different from that of the  DC war comics of the early 60's. I'm glad people appreciate an artist even as their styles change with age, assignments and time periods.

Here incidentally are a few panels of Irv Novick's Flash artwork that I really like:

[horrorhunter]

Here incidentally are a few panels of Irv Novick's Flash artwork that I really like:

Dick Giordano did great work inking Neal Adams for DC back in the day. It looks like he added some polish to the page above.

I wonder if he also improved the first page you posted, though uncredited. Wasn't Giordano effectively "Art Director" at DC for a time? I'm not sure about his exact job title, but I seem to recall reading that he was in charge of the artists back then.

[geezer butler]

Here's an eBay auction for Werewolf By Night #32 in lower-mid grade.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Werewolf-By-Night-32-1st-Appearance-of-Moon-Knight-HTF-KEY-Solid-VG/383870956223?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649



The book appears to be in the VG range, and the seller seems to be reputable. From the pictures it appears to be in VG (I don't know about the "+" the seller bumped it to. Sellers are fond of over-grading and they love to add the +, but the over-grading is usually much worse than this- usually by one or two whole grades. Maybe it really is VG+ (4.5), it's hard to split hairs on grading, especially going by pictures.)

As of this posting the high bid stands at $550.00 with 1 day and 5 hours to go, and it has 65 bids and 96 watchers.

I'm posting this as a point of conversation about the way prices have skyrocketed concerning back issues in general, and perceived key issues in particular. I'm curious as to what this lower-mid grade copy will bring at auction, and I thought to post it as sort of an example of what's happening in the marketplace regarding back issue prices. WBN #32 has been a sought after book for decades, but only recently have the selling prices for it hit such high levels. Now high grade copies sell for $2K-$3K or more, and even nicer mid-grade copies bring over a grand. Prices fluctuate on Bronze Age books more-so than older books, but when prices get this high and a book gets this desirable to the collecting community then it may be a long time before prices drop. As long as the economy stays fairly stable and civilization continues to persevere then these prices that seem ridiculously high compared to the past look to be a fixture of comic book collecting. Thankfully, so many comics were printed over the years the average collector can still find affordable books to enjoy. Some issues, though, are getting priced out of the average collector's budget.

I've always been a run collector as opposed to limiting myself to what other people chase. I grew up reading Bronze Age Horror comics from all companies and it's my collecting focus (along with some Silver Age). I collect a wide variety of comic book related things, but the Horror books from the '70s are my favorites (along with the monster magazines). Anyway, I completed my runs of most of those books back before all of these prices got out of control. In the '80s and '90s I completed titles like Tomb Of Dracula, Werewolf By Night, Ghost Rider, etc., back when books like WBN #32 and TOD #10 were still in dealers long boxes and they were close to the same prices as the issues around them- like a couple of bucks each (in the early '80s) in most cases. If I didn't already have those issues I would just do without them these days and settle for reprints. I'm glad to have them and I won't be selling my copies since they have personal value to me beyond the money, but if I didn't have them I would have to pass.

Any other opinions on these crazy (to some of us) prices in the current marketplace?

Thanks for posting this Double H. Yeah, that's still out of my price range. To be honest, I actually can make such a purchase, I just don't comfortable. We're in a pretty good financial situation, not wealthy by any means, but we have good jobs, no kids, and are responsible with our finances. But I feel like if I purchased every $500 comic book I wanted, we wouldn't be in good financial situation much longer. So I usually draw line at $200-$300.

I'm not gonna lie, it bothers me not having that book in my collection. Maybe one day I'll stumble across a more affordable version. And other times you just get lucky---when my wife's uncle died  for example (that's the unfortunate part of this story, he was great guy actually) her aunt gave me his collection. Included in there was an Incredible Hulk 181 in excellent condition. So sometimes you do stumble into these kinds of high end issues.

[horrorhunter]

Here's an eBay auction for Werewolf By Night #32 in lower-mid grade.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Werewolf-By-Night-32-1st-Appearance-of-Moon-Knight-HTF-KEY-Solid-VG/383870956223?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649



The book appears to be in the VG range, and the seller seems to be reputable. From the pictures it appears to be in VG (I don't know about the "+" the seller bumped it to. Sellers are fond of over-grading and they love to add the +, but the over-grading is usually much worse than this- usually by one or two whole grades. Maybe it really is VG+ (4.5), it's hard to split hairs on grading, especially going by pictures.)

As of this posting the high bid stands at $550.00 with 1 day and 5 hours to go, and it has 65 bids and 96 watchers.

The WBN #32 posted above ended at $716.65 with 73 bids. This copy was a real fight to claim because it was low enough in grade to be affordable. FN copies seem to sell in the $1200+ range these days, so a VG copy at this price is a much more affordable alternative for many collectors. I would just tap out on this book if I didn't have one. Even POOR copies ($300+) sell for more than I feel comfortable paying for a comic these days. Also, I don't understand giving hundreds of dollars for an incomplete comic book, or one that looks so wretched you're ashamed to display it. At that point it's reprint time as far as I'm concerned.

Here's a Werewolf By Night #33 (VG range, 2nd app. Moon Knight) that auctioned at the same time from the same seller:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Werewolf-By-Night-33-2nd-Appearance-of-Moon-Knight-Sharp-VG-Condition-/203226635336?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=ukEZmjEG65byrAISQlk25gnSMJ8%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc



It ended at 129.50 with 27 bids. I guess demand is trickling down to the 2nd appearance since Moon Knight's 1st appearance in #32 is getting out of reach. These prices still amaze me since for decades WBN #32 was casually affordable by anyone. It was always a cool book, and I've been a Moon  Knight fan from the beginning, but selling prices like this are still a little hard to get used to for me. Some of the market values for comics these days is like slipping into a parallel universe where a few things are shockingly different from the normal world.

Even Werewolf By Night #37 is getting expensive, and that's not even a real Moon Knight appearance in the context of that story. The "Moon Knight" in #37 is a magical creation by Belaric Marcosa.

[horrorhunter]

This copy of Giant-Size X-Men #1 (1st app. New X-Men) sold at eBay auction for $9,100 with 25 bids.



The X-Men characters, and mutants in general, are planned to show up in the MCU so demand has been driving prices up to new highs of late. This book has been desirable practically since it came out in 1975. The X-Men got very popular in the late '70s when the series resumed with #94 and stayed popular well into the '90s and beyond. For many years the X-Men were among Marvel's most popular characters, and they've been heating up again due to the MCU rumblings. Giant-Size X-Men #1 features the 1st appearance of main characters Storm, Colossus, and Nightcrawler. It's been a major key issue since the '70s, and is considered a grail by many collectors.

My own experiences with Giant-Size X-Men #1 started with a spinner rack in a local drug store in 1975 where I bought a copy OTR. I could tell the issue was special and I enjoyed reading it that afternoon. That was just before I started buying duplicates OTR for later resale (isn't that usually the case with mega books  ). Anyway, that original copy ended up being sold or traded a little later and I picked up a really nice copy in a trade around 1980. I still have that copy in my collection. It isn't an ultra high grade copy like the NM+ (9.6) posted above, but it is high grade, probably around VF/NM (9.0). I'm glad to have it, and it stays in my collection regardless of how valuable it gets, but if I didn't already have it there's no way I would attempt to buy a copy of this book. It's way out of my price range now. Fortunately, I still have all of my X-Men issues from #94 up and most of the Neal Adams issues (#56 through the mid 60s). Issues 94-101 are tough to afford these days too, and they just keep getting more expensive.

[Hepcat]

Wasn't Giordano effectively "Art Director" at DC for a time? I'm not sure about his exact job title, but I seem to recall reading that he was in charge of the artists back then.

Hmmmm. I dunno. I see only that Dick Giordano was hired by DC in April 1968 and made the editor of Aquaman, Teen Titans and Young Love. While he continued to do artwork for DC, he left the company's employ in 1971 to work with Neal Adams at Continuity Associates. But DC rehired Giordano in 1980 to be the editor of the Batman titles. He was then made DC's managing editor in 1981 and served as vice president and executive editor between 1983 and 1993.

Dick Giordano did great work inking Neal Adams for DC back in the day.

I agree!

Comics historian Les Daniels observed that "The influential Adams style moved comics closer to illustration than cartooning, and he brought a menacing mood to Batman's adventures that was augmented by Dick Giordano's dark, brooding inks."

But his inks weren't always "dark and menacing":



Giordano's art had a very easy on the eye style which made his artwork very suitable for promotional material:

[horrorhunter]

Giordano worked for Charlton from 1952 until he joined DC in 1968. That's a pretty long stint.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Giordano

"Beginning as a freelance artist at Charlton Comics in 1952, Giordano contributed artwork to dozens of the company's comics, including such Western titles as Annie Oakley, Billy the Kid, and Wyatt Earp, the war comic Fightin' Army, and scores of covers.[4][5]

Giordano's artwork from Charlton's Strange Suspense Stories was used as inspiration for artist Roy Lichtenstein's 1965/1966 Brushstroke series, including Brushstroke, Big Painting No. 6, Little Big Painting and Yellow and Green Brushstrokes.[6][7][8]

By the mid-1960s a Charlton veteran, Giordano rose to executive editor, succeeding Pat Masulli, by 1965.[9] As an editor, he made his first mark in the industry, overseeing Charlton's revamping of its few existing superheroes and having his artists and writers create new such characters for what he called the company's "Action Hero" line. Many of these artists included new talent Giordano brought on board, including Jim Aparo, Dennis O'Neil, and Steve Skeates.[9][10]"

I enjoyed some of the Charlton "Action Hero" books as a kid in the '60s. I bought a few issues of Peter Cannon...Thunderbolt and Judo Master off-the-rack.

Net pics of a couple of issues I had as a kid, and reclaimed copies of a few years ago:




Charlton ended up contributing a large volume of great work for comics fans over the years. The main reason for this is because they left the creators alone to do their own work without the strict overseeing of the Big Two. The pay was much less than Marvel or DC offered but the freedom more than made up for that for guys like Steve Ditko. What we got in many cases was more personalized, almost fanzine-like, work by creative artists who could stretch their imaginations and do their own things. Charlton was also a great place for new artists to hone their craft. Guys like John Byrne, Mike Zeck, and Joe Staton, did good early work for Charlton.

I'm a big Charlton fan. I focus on their Horror titles and early Monster stuff like Gorgo and Konga, but I appreciate and collect all Charlton comics. Here's my favorite Charlton book- the Fantastic Giants 1-shot (#24) which was published in 1966 after Gorgo and Konga ran their course with issues 23 of both titles. I bought a copy OTR at the age of 7 and I currently have a FN copy purchased a few years ago. This is one of my favorite comics of all.

Here's a net pic (with an unsightly reading crease):

[Hepcat]

I'm a big Charlton fan. I focus on their Horror titles and early Monster stuff like Gorgo and Konga, but I appreciate and collect all Charlton comics.

So do I! I can't remember whether the first Charlton comic that caught my attention featured Gorgo or Captain Atom. Charlton had introduced Captain Atom very early in the Silver Age in Space Adventures 33 cover dated March 1960. He went on to appear in Space Adventures #33-40 plus #42 cover dated October 1961. These early appearances of Captain Atom are brutally difficult to find in nice condition these days. I have only these two in my present day collection:

38



39



I wish I had several more. Captain Atom and Gorgo remain my two favourite Charlton heroes to this very day. Blue Beetle would be third:

Here's my favorite Charlton book- the Fantastic Giants 1-shot (#24) which was published in 1966 after Gorgo and Konga ran their course with issues 23 of both titles. I bought a copy OTR at the age of 7 and I currently have a FN copy purchased a few years ago. This is one of my favorite comics of all.

Here's a scan of my actual copy:

[skully]

I too bought this issue off the rack in 1966, I read Gorgo and Konga all the time.

[horrorhunter]

Here's a scan of my actual copy:

Man, that's a great copy!

My OTR copy from 1966 was read to death, but it held up pretty well for a long time. Until I was around 10 or so I was pretty rough on my comics and monster mags but I sure enjoyed them. Many ended up being coverless since I finally wore the covers right off. I lament not saving all the junk I as a kid and keeping it in excellent condition, but it's probably for the best that my toys and books were properly enjoyed as a kid should. I replaced most of it later as a collector anyway.

I have full runs of Gorgo and Konga now, including the related titles like Konga's Revenge. They're mostly in mid grade, but I'm happy to own them. I remember for years before eBay I hunted Gorgo and Konga issues everywhere I went that might have comics, and the few I found were always in very low grade. I upgraded those "beaters" later when I finished my runs. I probably won't try to upgrade to high grade copies of those since they're beastly difficult to find in high grade and would be hard to afford when they were finally located.

[skully]

Quick question here for anybody.  Speaking here about comics and comic art,  there are 4 pieces on e-bay,  they've been there for a while.  Semi-big ticket items cost wise,  they are recreations of cover art by Matt Fox,  who did astounding work for Weird Tales cover art.  Early pieces like this are quite impossible to find, and if they were found,  you would need some serious financial funds.  But here's the catch,  these 4 pieces were done by a famous artist, and one that I like a lot,  Ken Kelly.  What are your thoughts with recreations of famous artists being recreated by a famous artist??  A lot of recreation covers bring big bucks in any Heritage auction now.

[horrorhunter]

Quick question here for anybody.  Speaking here about comics and comic art,  there are 4 pieces on e-bay,  they've been there for a while.  Semi-big ticket items cost wise,  they are recreations of cover art by Matt Fox,  who did astounding work for Weird Tales cover art.  Early pieces like this are quite impossible to find, and if they were found,  you would need some serious financial funds.  But here's the catch,  these 4 pieces were done by a famous artist, and one that I like a lot,  Ken Kelly.  What are your thoughts with recreations of famous artists being recreated by a famous artist??  A lot of recreation covers bring big bucks in any Heritage auction now.

I would purchase recreations by an artist I like if the price was acceptable. Collectors routinely commission artists to do recreations of favorite covers. It's pretty common in the hobby these days. Ken Kelly is one of my favorites as well, and I would definitely buy his art if I could afford it. The guy is legendary for his Warren covers, and he's doing great covers now for Warrant Publishing. I have a few Warren cover posters hanging above my monster mag tables and two of them are of classic covers by Ken Kelly.

[skully]

Hi Horrorhunter.  Here's an item # for one of the pieces, 124086311525.  If you check the sellers other items for sale, you can see the other 3 that Ken Kelly did.  They were done as a one time only.  The seller also has a few pieces recreated by Ken Kelly for some great Frazetta covers, but those are really expensive.  Also, any thoughts on pieces done by Hoffman?  Some of his pieces look really cool, and he has a Frazetta-like style to his pieces.  Also, price-wise, a bit more affordable, but some of his pieces are getting expensive.

[horrorhunter]

Also, any thoughts on pieces done by Hoffman?  Some of his pieces look really cool, and he has a Frazetta-like style to his pieces.  Also, price-wise, a bit more affordable, but some of his pieces are getting expensive.

For recreations Hoffman is fine.

I have mixed feelings about Hoffman's work. In general I enjoy it. I like his new monster mag Eyrie, and I have a couple of his sketchbooks called Sorceress which are fun to look through, and here comes the but...his work is too derivative of Frazetta's. Wrightson and many others were influenced by Frazetta and it shows in their work (especially early Wrightson), but they also have their own style which shines through. As great as Frank Frazetta was, and his work is, there will never be another one like him. To ape his style so completely and still fall well short (as anyone would) leaves a bitter taste. It's like tribute bands. Some are very good, but they aren't and never will be the Beatles, just a bunch of guys who sound like them...kinda.