Forry and Famous Monsters - Ray Ferry Edition

[Mike Scott]

The discussion about FREAKY, for example, was brought to a halt when one of the admins warned that those criticizing the magazine could be held legally responsible if it was determined that their comments hurt Ferry's business.

I hope they don't mean because somebody posted where you could get most of the contents of the mag for free? Complete BS!

[Scheisseler]

I don't know what they mean. I have a lot of professional respect for the moderator in question, so I just try to stay out of the discussions/debates/flame wars/whatever. But to me, if someone tries to sell a magazine made up of scans of old comics that they didn't even scan themselves, that's just not an issue there are two sides to. Any reputable publisher would be raked over the coals for that. Compare that behavior to, say, the amount of work that Dark Horse is putting into restoring CREEPY for their archives series. And then bear in mind that with a cover price of $9.95, FREAKY is costing you just as much per page, if not more.

[Scatter]

Dear Scheisseler & gang-

"Ferry... There's quite a lot of bad news about this guy that's part of the public record"

I absolutely agree, and that's generally where I stand on the issue. BUT-

"and yet the reaction from the CHFB admins is that it's all somehow a matter of opinion"

- to be fair to them, I don't think that's what they're trying to do. I think they're just hoping to tamp down a bit of the flaming, toxic, oozing "ForryFerry War" that has done so much to harm fandom for so many years.

I would find the same, old, "Ferry is God, no, Ferry is Satan/Forry was God, no, Forry was Satan" thing amusing, if it weren't so sad. It's the same old silly idea that "the answer to one Extreme, is to counter it with another Extreme" thinking that helps make the world the mess that it is.

I admire and respect Forry's memory, and owe him a personal Monster Kid debt; but that doesn't mean that I gloss over his - "complexities"? - as a Human Being. And beyond that, even most of his honest friends will admit that he had one heck of an ego.

So what we had here, was a generally social guy with a great ego, up against what appears to be a generally anti-social guy and his great ego.

Quite apart from who was more "right" and who was more "wrong", that was probably destined never to work out!

Great weekend,
-Craig W.

Ferry and Forry are moral equivalents?? Sorry, I don't buy it.

[Daimajin]

Regardless of anything else -- even the FM and other monster mag imitations/rip-offs (some defenders would call them "homages" I'm sure) -- the thing that made me loathe Ferry, that made me see him as a conniving, back-stabbing, ungrateful, unworthy rat-wretch-S.O.B. was when I read an LA Times blog about FJA's yard sale and his wistful smile as he obliged people with autographs as he sold the mementos of his life's work and passion, the irreplaceable pieces of film history, even  his late wife's Jello molds.  Such a sad, sad thing.  I wish I had the link for the blog for you all, but a google search should turn it up.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions, but I really wonder what it is that makes some of those CHFB folks so defensive regarding Ferry.  Is it just to be contrary or do they really believe that Ferry has done something fandom-worthy?  Not being snide with that, I'm genuinely curious -- what is he credited with, besides reheating someone else's ideas?

[fmofmpls]

The discussion about FREAKY, for example, was brought to a halt when one of the admins warned that those criticizing the magazine could be held legally responsible if it was determined that their comments hurt Ferry's business. I mean, come on -- you can't even have an opinion anymore? Are they going to shut down the section of the board that discusses current films, too, because someone might state that Saw V is crap?

Astonishing if this is true only because it's enabling the enabler. I say screw Ray Ferry and all of his business endeavors, and I say it out loud at any given opportunity. It's my right as an American to express my opinion as I see fit. And I do so without the slightest bit of hesitation or fear about what Ray Ferry has to say about it. I've already told Ray Ferry once to go screw himself regarding a previous threat he sent my way, and I'd tell him the same thing today if I had to. Lawyers and frivolous lawsuits don't scare me. Never have.

I agree with the comments that Craig made earlier. They were sound and fair. But a rat is a rat no matter how you dress it up.     

[Scatter]

Regardless of anything else -- even the FM and other monster mag imitations/rip-offs (some defenders would call them "homages" I'm sure) -- the thing that made me loathe Ferry, that made me see him as a conniving, back-stabbing, ungrateful, unworthy rat-wretch-S.O.B. was when I read an LA Times blog about FJA's yard sale and his wistful smile as he obliged people with autographs as he sold the mementos of his life's work and passion, the irreplaceable pieces of film history, even  his late wife's Jello molds.  Such a sad, sad thing.  I wish I had the link for the blog for you all, but a google search should turn it up.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions, but I really wonder what it is that makes some of those CHFB folks so defensive regarding Ferry.  Is it just to be contrary or do they really believe that Ferry has done something fandom-worthy?  Not being snide with that, I'm genuinely curious -- what is he credited with, besides reheating someone else's ideas?

Exactly........a lifetime of memories and beloved artifacts put up for grabs to protect a lifetime of work and reputation. Nice trade-off, precipitated by a weasel is who ONCE AGAIN demonstrating the same utter lack of integrity and imagination.  Strafing the internet to profit off the work of others, just like he attempted to do to Forry through Famous Monsters.

See, Forry had a REASON for whatever ego he indulged. Forry CREATED. Forry INSPIRED. Forry ACHIEVED.

What has Ferry done to justify HIS ego?? Leeching off the imagination,hard work, and achievements of others is hardly justification for ego of any sort. Stripping an old man of a lifetime's work to raise the cash to defend his legacy doesn't justify any ego either.

Screw Ferry.

[Wich2]

"Ferry and Forry are moral equivalents?? Sorry, I don't buy it."

Scatter, I don't either. And if you'll read my post again calmly, you'll see that I didn't say it. I said that they were both Human, not Demi-God - and I do stand by that.

"Is it just to be contrary or do they really believe that Ferry has done something fandom-worthy?"

Daimajin, some actually DO seem to believe that.That in sense, what he's doing is like what other folks have done with STAR TREK after Roddenberry. As it takes all kinds to take a world, I'll respect that they feel that. Though I don't.

"I've already told Ray Ferry once to go screw himself regarding a previous threat he sent my way"

Terry, I remember that - Oy! (That's around the time, I think, that I said that I wished the UMA could take over FM.)

To me, one of the saddest things is that is that Ferry took what could still be a fun MAGAZINE for a decent niche, and by such easily avoidable nonsense, shrunk it down essentially to a boutique FANZINE for a teeny clique. I agree with Ray and others who posit that FM could NEVER be what it once was - even if there is yet a THIRD incarnation (!). (Hey, even MAD is cutting back...)

But it's sad that the Brand is such diminished goods.

Great weekend,
-Craig W.

[raycastile]

But it's sad that the Brand is such diminished goods.

Yes, it is sad.  And every time someone tries to resurrect FM, they just diminish it a little more.  I wish everyone would give it a rest.  Wait a decade or so, then bring it back.  If you really must.  But this does not feel like the right time for yet another "glorious return of FM."  I would feel the same way even if Forry himself were alive and in charge.  To the multiple people who say they own a piece of the FM legacy:  please, let the poor thing recuperate, convalesce and heal its wounds. 

[Scatter]

Craig, as I recall you summed it up succinctly by stating it was merely an old social guy with a big ego against a young anti-social guy with a big ego.  Apart from the revisionist history, that smacks of moral equivalency just a tad.

I confess though that I'm at somewhat of a loss as to how one determines if another reads calmly.  

[Wich2]

Scatter, I meant no offense - just trying to be clear.

I guess, overall, I just get weary of mudfights among adults. And at some point, it gets to the place where it doesn't even matter how much right one side or another has the throw the mud.

It still just dirties up the place.

(But then, I think the Ultra-Partisan Politics of recent years has hurt my country - what do I know?)

Great weekend,
-Craig Wichman

[hhwolfman]

The only thing I agree on is, Whom ever said. I would like to kick Ferry in the nuts.   

[fmofmpls]

The only thing I agree on is, Whom ever said. I would like to kick Ferry in the nuts.   

I think that was Forry. 

[Scatter]

Scatter, I meant no offense - just trying to be clear.

I guess, overall, I just get weary of mudfights among adults. And at some point, it gets to the place where it doesn't even matter how much right one side or another has the throw the mud.

It still just dirties up the place.

(But then, I think the Ultra-Partisan Politics of recent years has hurt my country - what do I know?)

Great weekend,
-Craig Wichman

No offense taken. I agree about the mudfights, and I certainly have no beef whatsoever with you friend. That's why I steer clear of the site in question. The attempt to paint the Ferry/Forry fiasco in neutral pigments is another reason I don't post there.

I don't doubt that the motives there may be to simply quell the lingering unpleasantness, but to my mind the only means of doing so would be to engage in rank revisionism (which is precisely what's happening on that MB). I like my history bloody where it was actually bloody.

Stampp wrote that knowledge of the past is the key to understanding the present. To truly understand our present estimation of both Forry and Ferry, one needs the past told accurately. Peace that comes at the expense of truth is a charade.

[Toy Ranch]

The only thing I agree on is, Whom ever said. I would like to kick Ferry in the nuts.   

Me too.

[Wich2]

>I like my history bloody where it was actually bloody.<

Scatter, me too. (An appropo sentiment in this Lincoln Bicentennial year; I'm putting together several events in honor of THAT beloved icon - but never loosing sight of the point you make...)

BUT I also believe in the very necessary-for-progress idea of allowing wounds to heal, and not contuinually picking off scabs (which can become an obsessive behavior.)

Best,
-Craig