Tan/Beige Marx/Universal MCMVXIII figures?

[PepitoB22]

Hi.  I'm afraid I discovered this GREAT forum 10 days and possibly a hundred dollars too late.  I'm totally new at collecting the original Marx monsters, so I'm not up on prices yet.  I just purchased a set of 4 tan/beige allegedly original Marx monsters (Mummy, Wolfman, Phantom, and Hunchback) for about $25 each.  After checking out this forum, however, I'm starting to quickly think I've been had.  These items all have LOUIS MARX & CO INC MCMLXIII encircled on the bottom and in a separate circle on the bottom, UNIVERSAL PICTURE CO INC with a circled C copyright mark (except for the Hunchback, which does not have the Universal marking, just a blank circle).  Call me naive (I certainly am), I took this to mean these figures were made in 1963 by the Marx company.  Am I wrong to think these are authentic and from 1963?  And by Marx?

[Mike Scott]

Welcome to the UMA, PepitoB22  !

OUCH! I just sold a set (all 6) of the tan ones for $20.

The Marx monsters are being pumped out in Mexico in any color you can think of. Some have both original marks, some have one and some none. These are being cast from the original Marx molds. In the '90s a co. called Uncle Milton produced a paint 'em set that had the tan ones and a series (6) of carded glow-in-the-dark ones.

If you want original 1963 Marx monsters, there are (for all practical purposes) 2 colors. Teal blue and orange. There are blue and orange Mexican Marx's, but I haven't seen any that match the originals, so it's pretty safe getting the real thing.

There are several threads on the Marx's with more info. Just search "Marx monsters".

[Mord]

 Welcome aboard, Pepito, you came to the right place.

[PepitoB22]

Wow.  As painful as this is to hear, I'm very grateful for your quick and knowledgeable response.  I am the wiser for it.  I'm not sure if I'll try and get a refund or not.  The figures have great detail and, after all, I can't blame them for my ignorance.  And from some of the posts I've read, even Mexican reproductions are collected.  Thanks so much for the photos.  They inspire me to keep looking!

[Mike Scott]

. . even Mexican reproductions are collected. 

Some people like getting them in all those different colors. The green ones (for obvious reasons) always seem to sell for more than the others.

Don't forget to visit our vintage toy museum!
http://www.universalmonsterarmy.com/forum/index.php?action=media

[PepitoB22]

Well, Mike, I wasn't expecting and certainly didn't want my initial experience with collecting original Marx monsters to be so negative, but this seller isn't budging regarding the figures he sold me.  It's not so much about the money to me as it is the truth.  I really need to defer to your expertise here.  I am in a royal battle with this seller over the facts.  He INSISTS these tan/beige figures of The Mummy, The Phantom, the Wolfman, and the Hunchback--again, ALL stamped LOUIS MARX & CO INC MCMLXIII in one circle and UNIVERSAL PICTURE CO INC with Copyright mark in the other circle (except for Hunchback)--are genuine.  He claims, "...the reproductions are not stamped with a date.  These [referring to the 4 figures he sold me] are real and are dated."  I keep telling him, that from my research and from the collector forums I've been reading, some reproductions are indeed stamped with the Marx name and the 1963 date, and besides, Marx simply did not produce this color (tan/beige) for these figures in 1963--therefore, they are reproductions from a later date (DEFINITELY NOT from 1963).  First of all, am I 100% right so far?  Secondly, I was wondering what you meant when you said "...for all practical purposes" there are only two colors if I want original '63 Marx monsters?  It sounds like when you say that there's some wiggle room here with the facts.  The '63 Marx monsters were either teal blue or orange.  But DEFINITELY NOT tan/beige.  Is it that black and white?  As I'm getting Ebay involved now, I really need to know what I'm talking about.  I promise not to bother you again with this issue, but if you could respond to this last plea I would really appreciate it.  X.S. I did check out the Monster Museum for reference and that was great.  Thanks...

[Hepcat]

He INSISTS these tan/beige figures of The Mummy, The Phantom, the Wolfman, and the Hunchback--again, ALL stamped LOUIS MARX & CO INC MCMLXIII in one circle and UNIVERSAL PICTURE CO INC with Copyright mark in the other circle (except for Hunchback)--are genuine.  He claims, "...the reproductions are not stamped with a date.  These [referring to the 4 figures he sold me] are real and are dated."

Many, even most, of the Mexican repros have the original date. This is easy enough for them to do since they have the original molds.

Marx simply did not produce this color (tan/beige) for these figures in 1963--therefore, they are reproductions from a later date (DEFINITELY NOT from 1963).  First of all, am I 100% right so far?  Secondly, I was wondering what you meant when you said "...for all practical purposes" there are only two colors if I want original '63 Marx monsters?  It sounds like when you say that there's some wiggle room here with the facts.  The '63 Marx monsters were either teal blue or orange.  But DEFINITELY NOT tan/beige.  Is it that black and white?

1. Teal blue and orange were the standard colours in which Marx produced these. Variants in the brightness of these two colours can certainly be found though.

2. A catalogue ad for these monsters in vile green, creepy yellow and bilious rose exists. Whether these were actually produced in any quantity is a "hot" subject of debate though. Zombiehorror may have a green one but they are certainly rare in these colours. Frankenstein73 also has a swirly green one that appears to be a Marx factory error.

3. Marx like any other kid toy manufacturer in those days was sloppy about standards. I'm sure if they were out of a certain colour plastic at the manufacturing plant one day, they would have continued production using a different colour, although probably another bright, gaudy colour that would have appealed to kids. Tan/beige would not have been a likely alternate choice. Moreover, we've not seen hard evidence of production in any other colour with the possible exception of Zombiehorror's figure.

...I can't blame them for my ignorance. 

Yes but somehow I don't think that the seller was ignorant.



For more info/detail, look over these threads:

http://www.universalmonsterarmy.com/forum/index.php?topic=1070.0

http://www.universalmonsterarmy.com/forum/index.php?topic=15098.0

http://www.universalmonsterarmy.com/forum/index.php?topic=2159.0

http://www.universalmonsterarmy.com/forum/index.php?topic=17452.msg277304#msg277304

http://www.universalmonsterarmy.com/forum/index.php?topic=25673.msg417376#msg417376

[PepitoB22]

Wow, Hepcat.  Can I put your name in for a promotion to Lieutenant?  You went above and beyond the call of duty for me specifically and monsterdom in general.  And I will check out all those links.  X.S.  I wasn't referring to the seller being ignorant.  I was referring to myself being ignorant.  Thanks so much.

[Mike Scott]

Hi Pepito!

Don't worry about bugging anybody. That's what we're here for, is to help each other out! 

I think Hep, and at least one of his links, answers your "other '63 colors" question.

I couldn't find your auction(s), but here's a couple of pics of the Uncle Milton paint set that clearly shows both marks on the bottom of the toys. Do these look like the color of yours? There are also slightly darker tan ones (might be Mexican) with only the Universal stamp on the bottom.

Like Hep said, they didn't make beige bin toys in the '60s. 

click for large pic




Unless the guy said these are definitely from 1963, in his listing, he may have you. Don't be fooled by the word "vintage"! It can mean whatever you want it to!

If you need more help, just scream like Fay Wray! 

[Mike Scott]

Well.... Somehow I don't think that the seller was actually ignorant.

He could be, but he's also being stubborn when faced with the facts. At least every other person selling Marx monsters, on ebay, says they are from 1963, because that's what it says on the bottom.

[Mike Scott]

Hey Pepito! Don't feel too bad.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Set-of-6-Vintage-1963-Marx-Universal-Studios-Toy-Monster-Figures-Frankenstein-/301436770807?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item462f0819f7&nma=true&si=MTRNm5xhuBfGdDMnPuLtJ7IyhB0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[Hepcat]

Wow, Hepcat.  Can I put your name in for a promotion to Lieutenant?

Won't work. This board is run like a closed club by the founders.

[Hepcat]

He could be, but he's also being stubborn when faced with the facts. At least every other person selling Marx monsters, on ebay, says they are from 1963, because that's what it says on the bottom.

And some of these sellers know they're not, and the rest don't care to know.

Hey Pepito! Don't feel too bad.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Set-of-6-Vintage-1963-Marx-Universal-Studios-Toy-Monster-Figures-Frankenstein-/301436770807?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item462f0819f7&nma=true&si=MTRNm5xhuBfGdDMnPuLtJ7IyhB0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Ebay is full of ill-informed buyers, and sellers taking advantage of these buyers.

[Mike Scott]

And some of these sellers know they're not, and the rest don't care to know.

This is also true!

[Haunted hearse]

I'm glad I got the Uncle Miltie glow in the darks.  No worries about how authentic they are, just six great monster figures.  Now if I can just get one of those Dracula's someone later made to complement this set.