Glenn Strange Candy bucket Question

[Hepcat]

The third problem is that it is a Buy It Now auction. Bidders hate those, unless the price is cheap. If this bucket were offered in a real auction with a $1 opening bid and no reserve, it would stand a good chance of hitting $500. It might go for more or less. But the seller doesn't want to take a chance. Buyers know that and resent it. As a buyer, I feel like BIN items should be priced to sell. Otherwise, why list it?

Truth!

[ravenloft]

Just because something sells for a high price doesnt necessarily mean the person is happy paying that price for it, and in most cases can/will resist. I love the Remco Universal Monsters 8 inch figures. Never in a million years will I pay what the price for MIB examples fetch. So--I admire from afar.


But  there are exceptions based on one's nostalgia or love for a product. I really wanted a few things I have recently acquired for my collection. I overpaid waaaay too much for them. I knew that when I bought them--- that they were madly overpriced. But a complete mint set was just sitting there. The nostaliga factor kicked it, and I snagged them before I even thought it out.

Ultimately the nostalgia factor and one's income determines what something is "worth" to them. To paraphrase Lance Shroeder regarding Vincent price's character from House on Haunted Hill: "$10,000.00 is no more to him than a nickel is to us". Disposable income is a factor. Once someone with a lot of it drops it on a favorite sought after item....It kind of sets the asking price others will expect to receive.

But just because someone on ebay paid $1,600.00 for a DD Lee Dracula mego doesnt mean it will get that every time. As has been proven in auctions that have occurred since. Supply, demand, the economic scare of the day, the weather, whatever.....things go up. Things go down. If I had the disposable income in spades, who's to say what I might pay for something that's ridiculous in anothers eyes.

That being said: a cheaply made Lon Chaney Jr. accurate Wolfman Halloween bucket would top my immediate want list,lol.

Someone gets the gist of my argument. Thank you sir.
The point being a few "had to have" impulse buyers in a few auctions managed to drive the pricing up way past the point of believably  to the point where even the buyer themselves feels foolish for having paid it (even if they won't admit it), but must have it at any cost. They then assuage their shame with excuses such as well I can make that much in a paycheck or two no big deal, or spend that much on a plane ticket or whatever anyway, or that is the price I was willing to pay because I may never get another chance...
Overspent indeed.

But when thought through rationally compare 500-800 dollars of practically any other goods or services and think if that is truly the value of a plastic trick or treat bucket. that is 4 brand new tires, or groceries for your family for a month, for what? a plastic novelty bucket. Yes we no longer live in a barter system of old, but value is value. It is a truly awesome plastic novelty but not worth near as much as some few are willing to give up for it, unless the very value of their money has no meaning anymore; either from excess or perhaps the chill winds of mortality or impish desire to leave not a dime unspent by the time the greedy kids are picking through the will, or from judging from the comments here some perverse badge of inclusion in the I paid a month or two's groceries worth for a random monster collectible that I never actually owned as a kid (hence with little sentimental value) just because I coveted it and I can club.

Still waiting to hear what people actually paid for theirs or would pay to own one, that is if you are not ashamed of your impulse overpayment and willing to admit my point. Or perhaps you are one of the lucky few who grabbed one at a flea market or thrift shop and want to brag...

[ravenloft]

Ravenloft, I'm not going to pretend I read your second and very, very long, l o o o n g post. I read a few words, and then let my imagine fill in the rest.

What kind of vainglorious attitude is that? You come to a forum to read posts about subjects you are interested in, but then lack the attention span to actually read the posts especially if they differ of opinion? You are one of those wait your turn to speak instead of actually listening in a discussion people aren't you? Get over yourself.

[Hepcat]

Old Batman comics go up and up in value because there are constant new fans being born every day that enjoy a stream of new Batman products, cartoons, films, and merch that got them to be Batman fans in the first place and when they reach adulthood maybe just maybe they want a old  thin paper book that originally sold for 10 cents that was printed before they were ever born and will pay a couple grand just for kicks because it is the first appearance of their favorite character....

A couple grand? You realize of course that a pristine copy of Action Comics 1 just sold for over $3MM?  I'm guessing that an equally pristine copy of Batman's first appearance in Detective Comics 27 would fetch a similar price today. And those comics were both printed on very cheap paper.

But when thought through rationally compare 500-800 dollars of practically any other goods or services and think if that is truly the value of a plastic trick or treat bucket. that is 4 brand new tires, or groceries for your family for a month, for what? a plastic novelty bucket.

Good thing you inserted the qualifier "practically". Many people would just buy booze, drugs or cigarettes with the money. Then they'd have no Frankenstein bucket, but fewer brain cells and more cancer causing tar in their lungs! What a deal, eh?

Someone gets the gist of my argument.

I get the gist of your argument. You've determined from first principles that a Frankenstein bucket "should" only fetch whatever because intrinsically it's just a cheap piece of plastic.

Well intrinsically the most valuable commodity out there is the air that we breathe, yet it's free because the supply is for all intents and purposes unlimited. However you go right ahead and try selling this priceless air commodity for its "true" value which should given its  utility fetch $millions.

Secondly, it seems that the people selling these Frankenstein buckets on occasion are willing to accept a few little green pieces of paper with pictures of dead white men on them. They must be crazy! What they're getting for their big colourful plastic buckets are just little pieces of paper with really uninteresting graphics!

[Monster Bob]

I never got into Monster stuff for the "value" of it. It was relatively cheap when I started re-collecting. I looked for what I wanted- stuff I had as a kid, or stuff I wanted as a kid.

There was a strong interest and a strong Vintage Monster Market 30 years ago. It is still getting stronger, not weaker. The fluctuations in price for a particular piece (like the bucket) are just supply and demand.

Toy auction values in any specific genre historically peak when those interested are in the 60-80 year old range...mechanical banks, old Disney, trains come to mind. Seniors have got extra money and want to recapture their childhood. Now, I am one of youngest "baby boomer Monster Persons", I guess- I am in my 50s. I believe the really great stuff has not peaked yet, and the middle stuff, like this bucket, will continue to slowly climb in $$$.


A little history. I got into the genre originally at 4 years old, and knew who Forry Ackerman was by the time I was 7. I collected this shat as a kid, and began recollecting in about 1978.

Once collecting fully kicked in, I paid what I had to pay for 1960s stuff. The sixties Monster toys were good THEN (I was buying and selling these bucket heads 20-25 years ago for $150-$250, and was called crazy by many, even at the time). Proved to be a good investment, though in my case, somewhat accidentally.

There is a concrete, real market/dollar value to the buckets and speakers of the world. And that's that.

[skully]

Hi Bob.  Exactly--I too never got into collecting "monster stuff" for the value of it, it was all about the great memories that came rushing back from a time pretty long ago that you wish you could go back to, at least it's that way for me. I started real collecting of these items around 1984, or 85, and was just quietly picking things up a few years earlier than this when I would see them, such as an occasional Aurora kit or 2, or an early FM magazine. It was never about "investing", although in actuality, many of those pieces turned out to be real bargains. It's not our fault that this "Ravenloft" fella maybe wasn't collecting back then, but he seems to be trying now, and he's very frustrated because he's in the "now" times of trying to purchase these items at what they are actually now bringing, and he doesn't like it. Well, thats just the way it is. It's also not our fault that he doesn't have the money, so, here again Ravenloft, DROP IT ALREADY!!! If you want to buy your tires, by all means, buy them, if you want to buy your groceries, then by all means, buy them. All of us here buy these items too, you know, why even compare?? You should never give up paying for tires, groceries, or whatever you need on a daily basis to live or survive anyway, so are you really telling us that That's what you'd have to do to purchase this bucket?? If the answer is yes, then be satisfied with what you have, and stop making stupid statements about the prices of things and putting people down for actually buying.

[Anton Phibes]

Incidentally---not all buyers hate BINs. If they are reasonable BINs I like them. Because I hate bidding wars. I also feel there could be some shill bidder running up the price for their buddy.

[ravenloft]

I never got into Monster stuff for the "value" of it. It was relatively cheap when I started re-collecting. I looked for what I wanted- stuff I had as a kid, or stuff I wanted as a kid.
...
There is a concrete, real market/dollar value to the buckets and speakers of the world. And that's that.

You make several very valid points Bob, and really that is why any of us collect nick knacks and doo-dads, be it monsters or Disneyana, blue china or whatever.
There is no question that several buckets have sold for vast sums of money and likely will continue to do so, I concede the point about "value."
But for how long?

Of course to a collector, their treasures are always priceless, who wouldn't be hard pressed not to rush into a burning house to save something you truly cherish? Money is never meant to be kept, rather it is designed to spend, it's value is only what it can purchase so we subconsciously see it as a means to our true objectives, it really has less value than the goods purchased with it.


My main point, was never to detract from those lucky enough to get one at a fair deal or even point a finger of derision at those crazy enough to get one at any cost no matter how high, but rather simply state with amazement how something so relatively insignificant, a plastic child's toy, could command prices comparable to gold or jewelry, it truly is mania. The very concept is an intellectual anathema. And as others have pointed out previously I picked the least valuable monster collector commodity out there relatively speaking, there are many more Monster items "worth" far more these days.

I feel that the phenomena is limited by several factors and will not last however, obviously time being the most important in any discussion of old or vintage items (not quite old enough to be considered antiques yet.)

The fact that a few seem to have taken personal umbrage in a harmless discussion to the point of ad hominem attacks seems to illustrate that I am close to the mark, as that old adage states "truth hurts." Oh well, that is the internet folks.

[skully]

No, it's not mania, it's called collecting. Your quote-"a piece of plastic worth more than gold or jewelry", why then are certain stamps (printed on a very small piece of paper) worth thousands, why are certain copper coins (a base metal compared to gold or silver) worth mega-bucks, furniture (made from wood), or 50's furniture (made from plastics), or glassware worth so much money??  You know NOT what you speak!! And, your main point sure was absolutely to detract from those buying these monster items at the now "fair market value". As far as "personal umbrage", you're obviously very "thin-skinned" in my opinion. Yes Ravenloft, "truth hurts"!!!

[Hepcat]

...could command prices comparable to gold or jewelry....

You unwittingly hit upon a horrible example. Were it not for the speculative demand, i.e. the bubble element, gold would fetch but a tiny fraction of the price at which it trades. Only a small portion of the gold that's produced every year actually gets used up in electronics and dentistry. For example, looking at the numbers for 2014 in tonnes:

Mine Production 3114.4
Recycled Jewellery & Electronics 1121.7
Total 4236.1

Jewellery Production 2153
Electronic & Dental Usage 389
Coins & Bars 1064
Total 3606

The difference is just hoarded by investors/speculators. As a result there exists a growing hoard of gold in inventory that can flood the market at any time.

Worse yet much or most of what's classified as "consumption" isn't actually consumed. Some of the electronic use is eventually recaptured. Some of the jewellery also ends up being recycled when grandma dies and her grand daughters don't care for her baubles. While the coins sold as collectors' items basically never get melted down again, bullion coins and bars are just inventory that can end up back on the market at anytime.

Since only the tiniest portion of annual production is used up or lost for good, almost all the gold that's ever been mined is still with us today. A total of about 177,500 tonnes exists on the surface in some form or other. Compare that figure to the 3606 tonnes consumed (well sort of) in 2014.

Like I say, to me the present price of gold looks to have a big bubble element.

[Allhallowsday]

I have owned three of these buckets, and still have the first one I bought about 25 years ago for a whopping $75 at a time I could ill afford it.  I was not aware at that time of the Frankenbucket, but I had and still have many plastic Halloween items; as soon as I saw that Frankenbucket in the window of a comic book store, I went to an ATM for cash and bought it.  I still think it is one of the coolest monster/ Halloween items. 

Buying and selling toys and Halloween for many years, I've learned that collectible items typically have no intrinsic value.  But, it is NOT about what something is made of, but, ...
WHAT IS IT? 

[Mord]

Buying and selling toys and Halloween for many years, I've learned that collectible items typically have no intrinsic value.  But, it is NOT about what something is made of, but, ...
WHAT IS IT? 

It's all about individual aesthetics...what looks best on that empty spot on my shelf, next to that other cool collectible. That would be my guess.

[horrorhunter]

I've learned that collectible items typically have no intrinsic value.  But, it is NOT about what something is made of, but, ...
WHAT IS IT? 

Like the real value of anything, it is perceived value. Perception is reality concerning something subjective like item value. Items attain this perceived value over time due to many different factors in general: the time period when something was made, popularity of item type, quality, scarcity, and several more factors individual to the buyer such as personal taste and "did I have it/want it as a child".

The older an item is the longer it's had to get pushed up in value due to supply and demand. This happens incrementally over time. Since the marketplace is much better known now thanks to the internet, and especially eBay, these values have been burned into people's minds more than any pre-internet price guide could ever do. Sure, eBay can be a cauldron of chaos, but usually those market values are reinforced there. If something desirable is priced too low then some dealer(s) with saved searches will bid it up to sell later at a profit. That's the active market in action. Sometimes something nice goes under the radar if not listed properly, but usually someone spots it and if it's an auction it gets bid up. Buy It Nows are where an unknowledgeable seller can really get screwed because it can be immediately swept away without that natural market interplay to force a somewhat fair selling price.

Many of the most valuable items most of us are concerned with were made in the late '50s through the mid '70s during the childhood years of most Monsterkids. Those items have that style and pedigree that makes most of them desirable to collectors. Many later items are desirable to collectors because of high quality, such as some items by Sideshow and Neca. The most important value dictating factor to the individual buyer is personal taste, but most people would buy something desirable priced at a small fraction of it's market value and resell it for a profit. So, the market value of an item is reinforced whether it's bought to keep or sell.

[Allhallowsday]

Like the real value of anything, it is perceived value. Perception is reality concerning something subjective like item value. Items attain this perceived value over time due to many different factors in general: the time period when something was made, popularity of item type, quality, scarcity, and several more factors individual to the buyer such as personal taste and "did I have it/want it as a child".

The older an item is the longer it's had to get pushed up in value due to supply and demand. This happens incrementally over time. Since the marketplace is much better known now thanks to the internet, and especially eBay, these values have been burned into people's minds more than any pre-internet price guide could ever do. Sure, eBay can be a cauldron of chaos, but usually those market values are reinforced there. If something desirable is priced too low then some dealer(s) with saved searches will bid it up to sell later at a profit. That's the active market in action. Sometimes something nice goes under the radar if not listed properly, but usually someone spots it and if it's an auction it gets bid up. Buy It Nows are where an unknowledgeable seller can really get screwed because it can be immediately swept away without that natural market interplay to force a somewhat fair selling price.
...

eBay has fortified prices for some items, like vintage monster toys.  eBay has also destroyed pricing in many other categories; availability, or lack there of, changed prices a lot. 

[skully]

Exactly.  E-bay, has, sort of, "fortified" prices for many items, I wonder if that last recent bucket head was bought, or if the seller took it off. This is why I said in a previous reply that if anyone thinks it is too high a price to pay, if they had one for sale, just how cheap would they let their's go?? No question they too would be looking for near top dollar.  These prices are here because people were and are willing to pay those prices, otherwise, things wouldn't get sold. Actually, I just lost out on quite a few monster items, prices went through the roof!!