Autographs!!

[deathwaltzrecs]

Hey there, I wondered if there was any sure fire way of telling if an autograph is genuine or not ?
For example this one
http://www.autographsmovieposters.com/Karloff_Lanchester_autographs_framed.htm

Thanks in advance for any help ..

[monsterphile]

The only way to be 100% sure is an in-person signing.  Of course, with celebrities that are dead, you have to go with recommendations and sometimes your own gut feeling.  On the page you linked to, there is the photograph with the autograph over Karloff's suit.  It looks like it has some fading from age(?).  The vintage envelope with Karloff's name is another great indicator. 

As for the top piece, the Karloff auto has a histiry to it, although the COA really doesn't necessarily mean anything.  The Lanchester is an autograph album page with another signature on the back which was common enough when people used to get celebrities to sign them years ago. 

You also have to see what you can find out about the seller.  Do they have a good reputation?  For that kind of money, you have to feel confident.  If you have a doubt, that doubt will grow and continue to nag you for years to come. 

By the way, Elsa lived a lot later than Karloff, so she is much easier to get (IMO) because she continued to do TV and theatre for years. 

Rob

[typhooforme]

Rob is right on the money with his advice.  That Karloff photo looks like a real find--and the envelope with it!  The handwriting on the envelope looks like Karloff's, and the return address--in NYC--1950 is when Boris was doing PETER PAN on stage on Broadway.  A GREAT envelope!

[scorpio]

Just a thought,
this Karloff photo & envelope has been offered
on that web site for many years, there are plenty
Of Karloff fans in this world with dollars to burn
ask yourself  with such a rare find why has nobody
snapped it up yet??

[monsterphile]

Just a thought,
this Karloff photo & envelope has been offered
on that web site for many years, there are plenty
Of Karloff fans in this world with dollars to burn
ask yourself  with such a rare find why has nobody
snapped it up yet??

Just some possible counterpoints on this question:

-Those with dollars to burn might already have one (or more) and the envelope is the only additional enticement/bonus.
-The photo is just a general publicity one and doesn't feature Karloff in character from a film. 
-The autograph is across his clothes making harder to see rather than across an empty, light area which is more desirable. 
-It's not like it's a rock-bottom bargain price for the piece.
-The website isn't as well known and doesn't get as much traffic(?).

Just some ideas.  I don't have any connection to the seller, in fact, I think this is the first time I've come across the website.

Rob

[scorpio]

Rob,
It was just a thought I had on it
as I did see it when I was looking for a Karloff
autograph some time ago but I do believe if you
Feel it's right then that's great any uncertainty then
Leave well alone it's about feeling happy about your item!

[typhooforme]

As I didn't know the item has been hanging around for a long while, I will agree that THAT does make it seem somehow suspect--and it's a shame one can't see the photo and envelope in person first--there's no substitute for seeing "ink" and "wear" in real light, with one's own eyes.  But that said, I agree with Rob's additional guesses (there is, alas, always a certain amount of guesswork involved when buying anything online), and I AM impressed by that envelope!  It's a good signed photo that everyone seeks when collecting, but I'll tell you this--I've got quite a few autographs in my collection which are NOT on photos, but which are on theatre programs, menus, personal checks, credit card receipts..all kind of odds and ends, but which are things which tend to be inarguably genuine (I include old autograph album pages, often signed on both sides, as Rob said, by different people, in this odds and ends category).  Here's another Karloff worry to muddy the water further:  Evie, his last wife, signed his autograph for him in later years.  Not always, but often enough--I think mainly on photos requested by fan letters.  So there's always a chance, especially in the 1960s, that one will buy an Evie Karloff instead of a genuine Boris!  I've discussed this with Sara Karloff several times--and we both feel that Evie's version of Boris's signature is a tad too LEGIBLE!  Boris had a pretty jagged signature and Evie tended to smooth out her version of it.  Autograph collecting!  I'm tellin' ya--it can drive ya up the wall!

Again--that said--I still feel that the photo and envelope in discussion here have all the right attributes--especially being from the PETER PAN on Broadway period of Boris's life. 

[monsterphile]

Rob,
It was just a thought I had on it
as I did see it when I was looking for a Karloff
autograph some time ago but I do believe if you
Feel it's right then that's great any uncertainty then
Leave well alone it's about feeling happy about your item!

I wasn't trying to support or deny anything with the site or the items.  I was just trying to think through all the possibilities.  Like Robert Taylor said, it's harder when you can't see the item in person.  Like we've both said--you have to go with your gut and your best judgment.  "Use the Force, Luke." 

Rob

[scorpio]

True you may need it,
it's the same when I buy posters or lobby cards
it's hard to tell fake or not as you don't have the item
in hand but what you do have in time is experience!!

[deathwaltzrecs]

Thanks folks. Your replies have been super helpful !

[typhooforme]

I hope they have been helpful in some ways--and not just muddying and water and confusing you more!  It's not easy and that's for sure.  So many frauds and forgeries and fakes, more than ever these days. 

[typhooforme]

While in Calif. in April, I went with Sara Karloff to a showing of THE BLACK CAT at Mann's (Grauman's) Chinese, an event hosted by her friend Kirk Hammett.  Kirk signed a few posters for the event and I just got mine, got it framed today.  And a photo of Kirk signing, too, which is nice--especially when not one single letter in a signature resembles any kind of cursive writing known to mankind.  lol  These folks nowadays!  But anyhow, this is it and it's a great poster, to boot!

[Illoman]

While in Calif. in April, I went with Sara Karloff to a showing of THE BLACK CAT at Mann's (Grauman's) Chinese, an event hosted by her friend Kirk Hammett.  Kirk signed a few posters for the event and I just got mine, got it framed today.  And a photo of Kirk signing, too, which is nice--especially when not one single letter in a signature resembles any kind of cursive writing known to mankind.  lol  These folks nowadays!

Robert, you reminded me of an incident between magician David Copperfield and my father in law. After one of Copperfield's performances he was signing photos in the lobby. He gave one to my father in law, and it was indecipherable. My father in law handed it back to him and said, "Could you sign it so I can read it?" To which Copperfield replied, 'Yeah, but it'll look just like that one." My father in law threw it in the trash in front of him and walked away! LOL!!!

[McDougals House of Horror]

Robert, you reminded me of an incident between magician David Copperfield and my father in law. After one of Copperfield's performances he was signing photos in the lobby. He gave one to my father in law, and it was indecipherable. My father in law handed it back to him and said, "Could you sign it so I can read it?" To which Copperfield replied, 'Yeah, but it'll look just like that one." My father in law threw it in the trash in front of him and walked away! LOL!!!

Boy, this is so true about a lot of these new celebrity types. I remember when Minnesota Twins Hall-of-Fame great Harmon Killebrew passed away 2 years ago, a lot of stories emerged how he would rag on young players whose signatures were illegible. Here's an excerpt from a Fox Sports North article shortly after Killebrew's passing:

Minnesota outfielder Michael Cuddyer had arguably the most legible autograph on the Twins, and he owed it to Harmon Killebrew. Killebrew instilled in young players the importance of having a signature that fans can read. Cuddyer learned that early in his career, and carries it with him to this day.

"Every time I sign an autograph, he's in my head, thinking about how it looks," Cuddyer said. "I did a signing with him on the Caravan one year. My signature looked pretty bad. He told me, 'If I see this come through the line one more time, I'm walking away and I'm leaving. The only person these people are going to be mad at is you because you're the reason I'm going to leave.'

"So from then on I tried to make it as legible as I can."

Catcher Joe Mauer first met the Hall of Famer at TwinsFest when he was 18 years old. Since then, he too has been lectured by Killebrew about his penmanship.

"He would always get on me about my autograph," Mauer said. "He'd say, 'Hey, make sure they can read it.' It's like, 'Well, you can read the J and the M, and I throw my number on there to make sure that they know it's me.' . . . Obviously that's one little thing. There's so many things I've learned from him over the years."

"One of his points was what a shame it would be to have played Major League Baseball and not have someone be able to identify your signature," said former Twins outfielder Torii Hunter, now with the Los Angeles Angels. "I have never forgotten that and remind young players to this day."

Justin Morneau had a similar experience with Killebrew when he first came up with Minnesota. During Morneau's first TwinsFest, Killebrew noticed Morneau's autograph was illegible.

"He looked at my signature and didn't exactly approve of it," Morneau said. "So he sat me down -- I think I was only 19 or 20 years old. It was my first TwinsFest, and like he does with so many young players, he sits them down and says, 'We're going to work on this.' He said, 'I've got to be able to read that thing.'"

And here's what every one of Killer's beautiful autographs looked like:

 

[deathwaltzrecs]

I hope they have been helpful in some ways--and not just muddying and water and confusing you more!  It's not easy and that's for sure.  So many frauds and forgeries and fakes, more than ever these days.

They have been !
I guess it's about being comfortable with what you buy and from a seller you trust.