Comic Book Collecting

[Sir Masksalot]

How do they know if the product is in good shape?

Yeah, good point. It's like buying a bottle of really old wine. It may have turned to feeble vinegar by the time you buy it for thousands of dollars.

[Hepcat]

Here's a framed photo from the House of Poe of an unidentified young fellow in the late spring of 1948 perusing the offerings at his local comic stand:

[Hepcat]

More lunacy.



This copy of FF#48 in CGC 1.8 sold for over $800 recently (figuring in shipping and tax).

I've seen copies of the Incredible HULK 181 go for     exorbitant  mounts of money, in poor condition. Nothing surprises me in the collecting world.

What's truly mind-boggling beyond belief crazy is that these two comics together with the Tomb of Dracula 10 and Marvel Spotlight 5 mentioned just above are common as spit. The latter two even sport a cover price of 20 cents meaning that there are dealers who still have a stack of unsold copies from the 1970's. With a quick search a collector can at any time find hundreds of any of these comics offered for sale including many in the highest of grades. Even if you just visited your local comic shop, if the owner didn't have a copy hanging on the wall, he'd tell you that he could have a copy by the next day.

[Hepcat]

They're so fragile, you're basically collecting a sealed object you won't be able to remove and enjoy at the risk of damaging it.

What's truly ironic is that the CGC label with the grade is printed on archival quality paper meaning it could stay pristine for centuries if not millennia. Pre-1990 or so comics though were printed on the cheapest pulp newsprint available. Therefore in 100 years the pages of those comics will have deteriorated/toned somewhat in even the best of storage conditions and those pristine CGC labels indicating white or off-white pages will be a lie since the pages could by then be well tanned.

In fact in 3000 or so years the comics (at least the inside pages) will have turned to dust but the label will still brightly and proudly proclaim a grade of 9.6. What will then be paramount to collectors will be the grade of the plastic slab confining the dust. This is already the case as I see that dealers are already describing the condition of the slab. The mind boggles....

[horrorhunter]

What's truly mind-boggling beyond belief crazy is that these two comics together with the Tomb of Dracula 10 and Marvel Spotlight 5 mentioned just above are common as spit. The latter two even sport a cover price of 20 cents meaning that there are dealers who still have a stack of unsold copies from the 1970's. With a quick search a collector can at any time find hundreds of any of these comics offered for sale including many in the highest of grades. Even if you just visited your local comic shop, if the owner didn't have a copy hanging on the wall, he'd tell you that he could have a copy by the next day.

Yes, Bronze Age and most Silver Age comics are common. Check eBay anytime and you will find several listings for the sought-after key issues. The way the market is now though some of the most desired and valuable comics are also common. The fact that there are many of them doesn't stop sellers (and buyers) from treating them as if they are prized treasures. As I stated before, demand s everything else regarding these high priced books.

A few years ago you probably could find hundreds of copies of the books you mention above without any problem, but now so many of them are locked away in private collections the "hundreds" might be more like "dozens" nowadays that could be quickly available, and that's just because the prices have gotten so high as to have drawn out the available copies for sale. The days are probably gone where many dealers commonly have "stacks" of books like Incredible Hulk #181, Werewolf By Night #32, Tomb Of Dracula #10, Marvel Spotlight #5, Fantastic Four #48, Silver Surfer #3, etc. Most dealers, even big dealers, have been cashing in on those books for years, and big stockpiles of them have probably been depleted and mostly ended up in private collections by now. There are so many copies of keys from the '60s and later still around that they are easily found for sale, but I doubt anyone could produce a box of 100 copies of Giant-Size X-Men #1 for bulk sale the way it was decades ago. The books have been cashed in on long enough that the available quantities are no longer in the hundreds or thousands, more like in the dozens, and those are quite expensive.

And I seriously doubt that most small comic shops could produce a copy of Fantastic Four #48, 49, 52, Silver Surfer #1, 3, 4, Marvel Spotlight #5, Ghost Rider #1 etc... the "next day" casually with a phone call. Big dealers probably could, but small comic shops may not have ever had most of those books on their wall. Those books now sell for hundreds (or sometimes thousands) of dollars and that's just beyond your average comic shop who struggles week to week to just keep the doors open.

Your mindset regarding the current comic book back issue market seems to reflect the way it was decades ago. Things have radically changed, especially in the last few years.

[Hepcat]

And I seriously doubt that most small comic shops could produce a copy of Fantastic Four #48, 49, 52, Silver Surfer #1, 3, 4, Marvel Spotlight #5, Ghost Rider #1 etc... the "next day" casually with a phone call. Big dealers probably could, but small comic shops may not have ever had most of those books on their wall. Those books now sell for hundreds (or sometimes thousands) of dollars and that's just beyond your average comic shop who struggles week to week to just keep the doors open.

The small shop owner would just phone the bigger guy he knows has a copy or three for sale "Hey, I got a sucker, errrrr customer, willing to pay full guide for the Slugman intro! Cut me in on the action and we got us a sale."

As I stated before, demand s everything else regarding these high priced books.

Keep in mind though that building an edifice on the vicissitudes of demand is a foolish undertaking because that's building on a foundation of shifting sand. Demand can quickly erode or even almost completely evaporate due to changing fads, e.g. latest "hot" movie. Check out what's happened to the stamp collecting hobby. The level of demand also changes as population demographics change. For example, the demand for tinplate toys is nowhere nearly as high now as it was 20-25 years ago.

Supply though is a far more reliable factor. If something just doesn't exist in quantity, it stays that way.

A few years ago you probably could find hundreds of copies of the books you mention above without any problem, but now so many of them are locked away in private collections the "hundreds" might be more like "dozens" nowadays that could be quickly available, and that's just because the prices have gotten so high as to have drawn out the available copies for sale.

You have it backward. It's an economic truism that high prices bring out the quantity supplied to the market. Check the Supply and Demand chart in your Economics textbook. A high price acts to coax comics out of collections and forgotten boxes into basements and out into the marketplace to be sold.

Don't believe me? Check out how many offerings for Fantastic Four 1 you can find with a quick internet search, and then compare that number with the quantity of other Marvel comics from the same month, e.g. Gunsmoke Western 67, Kid Colt Outlaw 101, Kathy 13, Love Romances 96, Patsy Walker 97, etc you can find for sale. Those latter comics either don't exist because they were never hoarded or are deeply buried in forgotten stacks because prices aren't high enough to coax offerings onto the market.

[horrorhunter]

Keep in mind though that building an edifice on the vicissitudes of demand is a foolish undertaking because that's building on a foundation of shifting sand. Demand can quickly erode or even almost completely evaporate due to changing fads, e.g. latest "hot" movie. Check out what's happened to the stamp collecting hobby. The level of demand also changes as population demographics change. For example, the demand for tinplate toys is nowhere nearly as high now as it was 20-25 years ago.

Supply though is a far more reliable factor. If something just doesn't exist in quantity, it stays that way.

You seem to suggest that just because something is common then it should never have as much value as something that is less common. That argument is disproved by the facts concerning the value of Silver and Bronze Age key issues. The books in question really are selling for prices much higher than more scarce issues. It's a fact. It isn't a "price bubble". It's been going on for years and prices continue to increase. You can use all of the multisyllable "smoke and mirrors" phrasing you want to argue a counterpoint, but it's still a fact that many common back issues are selling for MUCH more than far scarcer issues.

Two things are driving you to attempt to turn this into a debate (which it isn't, I'm just reporting what's happening regarding back issue values).

1) You have never been interested in collecting Marvel comics in general, and specifically you have mentioned your disdain for Bronze Age Marvel comics. You are a DC guy along with an interest in certain other companies' offerings like Charlton. It seems to rub you the wrong way that so many people are interested in key Marvel comics that their values have outstripped books that you value a lot more. I know you'll say you don't care how much something sells for, but it still seems to bug you that comics you turn up your nose at are valued so highly by so many.

2) You are obsessive in proving a point that you have adopted for whatever reason. I don't know if you're a lawyer professionally, but you treat casual message board conversation as if you're battling in a court of law.

It doesn't matter what your opinion is about supply and demand affecting comic book back issue prices, just like it doesn't matter what my opinion is... or anyone's for that matter. More common books sell for more than more scarce books in some cases just because more people want them. That higher demand has driven prices up over the years, and that process has accelerated in the last few years due to more exposure through movies and TV shows.

I know you'll come back with detailed arguments trying to disproved everything I've stated here. Facts are still facts no matter how unpleasant they are for certain people. You can argue with yourself, I have other things to do... anything at this point.

[Rex fury]

So here's a couple of questions for you fellow comic book enthusiasts:
1) I recently picked up "Ghost Breakers" 1&2. After reading them I'm still a little perplexed as to whom This title may have been aimed at back in the day? Jeff Neff could easily be the grandfather of Scooby doo's Mystery Incorporated, working so hard to prove the ghosts were really just crooks in silly get ups. Then the comic offers dyi magic tricks as an additional feature. Published in 1948, was Street and Smith aiming at the Crime book followers? Horror comic buyers? Maybe ( since there were only two issues) they were attempting to follow Martin Goodman's approach to publish something of everything and see what sells? I'd love to hear somebody else's take on these comics and their place in history.

2) I'm hesitant to ask this as I'm more interested in comic book collecting  than comic book pricing, but what's up with Graphic Fantasy #1? I saw the recent Image  solicitation for a reprint of the book and decided to see what eBay was selling the original for. To my surprise there weren't any originals for sale! Is the hype true that since there were only two hundred copies printed it's worth a bunch of cash? I realize it's the first appearance of Savage Dragon, but it's not even close to Erik's best ( or even better) work. As requested in #1 above, what your take on this book?

Ps- I promise you will not see me listing Ghost Breakers as the prototype for Scooby Doo on some eBay page, nor will I list my Graphic Fantasy #1 ( 190/200 signed by Larson and the gang) for 1 Million dollars , maybe 500,000 but definitely not a million- lol
RF

[Mike...In 3-D!]

More common books sell for more than more scarce books in some cases just because more people want them. That higher demand has driven prices up over the years, and that process has accelerated in the last few years due to more exposure through movies and TV shows.

I agree with this 100%. During my time working at the shop we ran into this a lot. Age and scarcity are a nice guideline but not a hard rule. At the end of the day it's the demand that drives the prices/value. We couldn't give away 12 cent Harvey comics, simply because our customer base wasn't interested. However, we would sell loads of 90s comics that had huge print runs for well above cover price.

So here's a couple of questions for you fellow comic book enthusiasts:
1) I recently picked up "Ghost Breakers" 1&2.

2) I'm hesitant to ask this as I'm more interested in comic book collecting  than comic book pricing, but what's up with Graphic Fantasy #1? I saw the recent Image  solicitation for a reprint of the book and decided to see what eBay was selling the original for. To my surprise there weren't any originals for sale! Is the hype true that since there were only two hundred copies printed it's worth a bunch of cash? I realize it's the first appearance of Savage Dragon, but it's not even close to Erik's best ( or even better) work. As requested in #1 above, what your take on this book?

I can't speak to your first question, as I'm not familiar with those books. But...

Graphic Fantasy #1 did have an EXTREMELY low print run. Depending on who you believe that number is either 200 or 300. Adding to the rarity of it is that this was a self published 'zine. You can't get much more punk and scarce than that! To answer your question, no, the fact that only 200-300 copies were printed doesn't mean it's worth a bunch of cash by itself. This book is the product of a perfect storm. Self-published with an extremely low print run + the character becoming wildly popular in the 90s + the character still being relevant = $$$ in this case.

Also, there's absolutely nothing wrong with knowing the value of your comics. I don't particularly care to know the value of my collection, but it is good to have a reference point just in case you ever need that info.

[Hepcat]

I don't know if you're a lawyer professionally, but you treat casual message board conversation as if you're battling in a court of law.

I'm not a lawyer.

My background academically is in philosophy, mathematics, economics and business. I worked as an investment analyst for my first seven years after graduation. That may explain my analytical bent.

I then spent 35 years as a stock broker - which is why I'm not shy about making price predictions when the topic is breached. It's what we do.

Your mindset regarding the current comic book back issue market seems to reflect the way it was decades ago. Things have radically changed, especially in the last few years.

But I don't believe that the underlying factors behind old comics exchanging hands at multiples of their cover prices have changed. The factors remain as follows:

1) There has to be collecting interest.

2) A destruction factor must have taken place to create scarcity in relation to the number of collectors.

Note that I referenced collectors specifically though. Investors/speculators cannot by themselves continue to build a price pyramid to the sky without a corresponding increase in the number of interested collectors.

It seems strange that so many collectors are now interested in books at much higher prices than they could be bought for before just because so many other collectors want a copy, but that seems to be one of the things driving the crazy prices...the dreaded FOMO (fear of missing out).... Another thing driving the crazy prices is the crazy prices, more collectors think if they don't get a copy ASAP they won't be able to afford one later. Ironically, that attitude is one of the factors making them so hard to afford in the first place.

The phenomena you've described are all classic indicators of a speculative price bubble primed to pop.

You seem to suggest that just because something is common then it should never have as much value as something that is less common. That argument is disproved by the facts concerning the value of Silver and Bronze Age key issues. The books in question really are selling for prices much higher than more scarce issues. It's a fact. It isn't a "price bubble". It's been going on for years and prices continue to increase. You can use all of the multisyllable "smoke and mirrors" phrasing you want to argue a counterpoint, but it's still a fact that many common back issues are selling for MUCH more than far scarcer issues.

More common books sell for more than more scarce books in some cases just because more people want them. That higher demand has driven prices up over the years, and that process has accelerated in the last few years due to more exposure through movies and TV shows.

Facts are still facts no matter how unpleasant they are for certain people.

Nowhere have I disputed the facts with respect to the prices that currently prevail. Nowhere have I disputed what "is". Where we disagree is how things will be in the future.

...I'm just reporting what's happening regarding back issue values.

What's the point of "reporting" what's happened without a prediction of what will happen? What's happened is very widely known. What's important is what will happen.

And that's where we disagree. Despite your own categorization of the prices of the movie-hyped comics as "crazy", you've concluded that crazy is the "new normal". But when a stockbroker (or any arms length observer for that matter) thinks current prices are crazy, he stays well away because he believes they'll collapse. And that's my prediction. I think the price bubble will burst because I don't think the increase in prices has been underpinned by an actual increase in the number of collectors.

Two things are driving you to attempt to turn this into a debate (which it isn't).

1) You have never been interested in collecting Marvel comics in general, and specifically you have mentioned your disdain for Bronze Age Marvel comics. You are a DC guy along with an interest in certain other companies' offerings like Charlton. It seems to rub you the wrong way that so many people are interested in key Marvel comics that their values have outstripped books that you value a lot more. I know you'll say you don't care how much something sells for, but it still seems to bug you that comics you turn up your nose at are valued so highly by so many.

2) You are obsessive in proving a point that you have adopted for whatever reason. I don't know if you're a lawyer professionally, but you treat casual message board conversation as if you're battling in a court of law.

All beside the point and irrelevant to the discussion. Worse yet questioning my preferences/values/motives and posting style borders on a personal attack.

Consider. In this thread my posts have consisted of relating my collecting memories and celebrating the comics I love the most. I've not breached the subject of the current market for comics. I'm not the one who's made post-after-post about the crazy prices being fetched by certain comics these days. That's been you. Yet when I've posted in agreement, it's annoyed you. Is that because I'm not a "Marvel guy" and have little interest in Bronze Age comics? Does that mean that you think I have no right to an opinion concerning the pricing of Bronze Age Marvel comics? Had John Pertwee or Buzzybean posted the same opinions as mine, would you have been equally affronted?

Moreover say what you will about my posting style, but at least I confine my remarks to the specific subject of discussion without resorting to personal comments.

You have never been interested in collecting Marvel comics in general, and specifically you have mentioned your disdain for Bronze Age Marvel comics. You are a DC guy along with an interest in certain other companies' offerings like Charlton. It seems to rub you the wrong way that so many people are interested in key Marvel comics that their values have outstripped books that you value a lot more.... but it still seems to bug you that comics you turn up your nose at are valued so highly by so many.

By the same token I can say that my disinterest in Bronze Age Marvel comics seems to rub you the wrong way. Quite simply why did you bring up the subject anyway? If it didn't bug you, you wouldn't have raised the point since it's completely irrelevant to the topic under discussion.

[horrorhunter]

Age and scarcity are a nice guideline but not a hard rule. At the end of the day it's the demand that drives the prices/value. We couldn't give away 12 cent Harvey comics, simply because our customer base wasn't interested. However, we would sell loads of 90s comics that had huge print runs for well above cover price.

Correct.

Let's zero in on that...

At the end of the day it's the demand that drives the prices/value.

This is the point I was making all along, which was constantly challenged with tons of BS and very little real thought. At least someone realizes when the obvious is mentioned.

No comic book is so common as to override demand regarding value. Comics aren't air, or water, or food, or any of the silly arguing points previously mentioned in this thread. Demand is the most important factor that drives value. If nobody wants something it doesn't matter how rare it is, or even if it's unique. It's the popular comics that get more valuable simply because more people want them. Simple.

[Mike...In 3-D!]

Much like Sam Emerson from The Lost Boys, I'm not that into horror comics. I don't know why, but that's just how it is. That being said, the covers to some of these are awesome. I picked up Ghosts #9 on a whim because I loved the cover. In a perfect world DC would publish some nice hardcovers that collect the covers from their horror books.

[horrorhunter]

Much like Sam Emerson from The Lost Boys, I'm not that into horror comics. I don't know why, but that's just how it is. That being said, the covers to some of these are awesome.

Horror comics covers are a treasure trove of beauty ranging from the somber and moody to outrageous savagery.

The Bernie Wrightson covers alone are a wealth of otherworldly gorgeous awesomeness. Here are net pics of a few faves:











Early in my collecting I identified Wrightson as my favorite artist. Initially I collected only his covers of titles like House Of Mystery and House Of Secrets, but in the last few years I've finished my runs of the non-Wrightson covers as well in my attempt to collect all Bronze Age Horror/Monster comics/mags (and as many of the earlier ones as I could find and afford). Wrightson remains my favorite though I highly value the work of many other artists who have worked in the Horror genre.

[Doh!]

LOVE me some Bernie Wrightson! Have you ever seen his Frankenstein book?

https://bloody-disgusting.com/news/3597790/late-bernie-wrightsons-original-frankenstein-art-marvel-cover-just-sold-1-million/

[horrorhunter]

LOVE me some Bernie Wrightson! Have you ever seen his Frankenstein book?

https://bloody-disgusting.com/news/3597790/late-bernie-wrightsons-original-frankenstein-art-marvel-cover-just-sold-1-million/

Yes. I still have my original copy of Frankenstein bought when it first came out. It's some of Wrightson's best work.

Another great Wrightson book is Berni Wrightson, A Look Back. Here's an eBay listing for the signed, limited, slipcased edition first published in 1979:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/A-Look-Back-Berni-Wrightson-signed-and-numbered-204-of-250-copies-/252928419935



It was reprinted in 1991. I pre-ordered one of the slipcased editions like the one in the eBay listing back in 1978 and it was delayed a year. I still have it and it's one of my favorite items in my collection. I also received a free signed, limited print called Don't Look Back. It's been framed on my wall for the past 40 years.

Here's a net pic of the image area of Don't Look Back: