Let's Talk Metal.

[monster_island]

these guys were really good live ... real tight ... one of the two time i saw them play was at a place called G Wilikers ( Pensauket PA was the city i believe ) and i had taken some acid ... man what a crazy show that was LOL ... Disharmonic Orchestra , Incantation , Mortician , Immolation , Gorephobia , Phlegm , Vital Remains
Disharmonic Orchestra- Inexorable Logic

[Wicked Lester]

ok ireread your post and nowhere did i see you mention carcass ... it seemed u were generalizing death metal ... i understand now i think ... symphonies is a masterpiece IMO ... if your post was about the countless bands ripping that sound and style off and butchering it then i agree with you ... IMO i think after Symphonies the band gradually began to suck ... where as Carnivore ruled and Typ O negative just sucked from the get go .... im a big fan of swedish death metal too  .... Grave is awesome too ... played with those guys on the into the grave tour  and Jorgen was a real nice guy ... im partial to into the grave but i really love the demos
Grave - Extremely Rotten Flesh

im not a fan of the new age death metal or whatever tag they put on it with the pig squeals and ultrafast shredding and drumming that sounds too fast for human beings to play with 10 minute songs ... LOL ... rarely i hear something appealing to me

Guess it was a miscue. This is what I stated directly under the Carcass link. "The old thrashy undecipherable voice death metal like this IMO is the epitome of pure crap" So I thought it was a given what I meant.
When it comes to DM or anything even close I prefer it mid paced and HEAVY as hell.
That is so cool that you actually played with Grave. I prefer Soulless myself.

The sonic noise power tool potsnpans comment is still true for a lot of bands out there. Mostly thrash and raw black metal. I like some thrash if done well but not a big fan of it. I back in the 80's I bought albums from Destruction ,Kreator , Possessed etc only find that I liked maybe 3 songs on the album. So I made double copies of what I liked and traded them in at the record exchange.

I think one of the worst genres in metal is the raw black metal. To me that just means they just don't have the talent to do it right. Or maybe I'm just clueless and "don't get it".

Good example of sonic noise here and yea I know they eventually changed and evolved.

Ulver - Hymn IV - Wolf and Man

[monster_island]

ah call it a snafu !! ... Soulless is killer too ... i love DM that #1 has to be heavy ... heavier the better ... and #2 i like shorter song structure with varying speeds and some creativity ... 3 - 5 minutes is plenty ... 10 minute songs just make me lose interest as far as DM goes ... bands like Vital Remains just sound too repeticious and i get bored real quick ... you can cut one song into three really ... not really into much black metal ... that song you posted is boring  IMO

wow just found this ... havent heard this since the early 90s
Paradise Lost - Deadly Inner Sense

[BlackLagoon]

Good posts with Hypocrisy and Entombed--those particular songs aren't the death metal that both bands used to be.

Until recent times, actually--until Wolverine Blues, Entombed was pretty much Sweden's premier death metal act...if you go back to Nihilist--then Unleashed etc etc.

Anyone listining to Death Breathe?? Nick's other band that has Scott Karlson from Repulsion on some tracks? Good stuff if you're a Repulsion fan.

[monster_island]

im gonna have to check out death breathe !!!

Exodus - Strike Of The Beast

[Wicked Lester]

Good posts with Hypocrisy and Entombed--those particular songs aren't the death metal that both bands used to be.

Until recent times, actually--until Wolverine Blues, Entombed was pretty much Sweden's premier death metal act...if you go back to Nihilist--then Unleashed etc etc.

I believe it was with Wolverine Blues that the term Death n Roll came about. Good stuff anyway.

[BlackLagoon]

Right on, Wolverine Blues was actually my 1st Entombed album and it's still one of my favorites. After that I went and got the older stuff.

For awhile they really went in the sh*tter--some of that mainstream sounding crap was just garbage. The more recent "Bright Morning Star" was def back to the good stuff---here is a great one off that cd.

Entombed Serpent saints

[Wicked Lester]

Anyone into Grave Digger who changed to just Digger then back gain. There was a 4 year hiatus and then they came back in a new for. These guys IMO are frickin underrated legends doing both just good old head bangin metal to well crafted power metal. Been into them at different levels since the start.

From 1983's Heavy Metal Breakdown

GRAVE DIGGER - "HEAVY METAL BREAKDOWN"

And 16 years later. This one just has it all,IMO. Just straight forward speedy metal.

Grave Digger - Excalibur

And this from 2007.

Grave Digger - Liberty or Death

[BaronLatos35]

Hey Lester, I liked the music on Excalibur and Liberty or Death. Never heard of them, but they sound pretty cool.

I agree with you about raw black metal. I've tried listening to bands like Mayhem but it sounded like noise IMO.

[BlackLagoon]

The Grave Digger stuff was cool--nice fast paced riffy metal.

I dig alot of old school Black Metal--and this what I've come to understand about it.

In the begining it was basically the punk of Norway/Sweden/Finland--it was more about the statement and the "f*ck your society" then it was the music.

Then good bands that started blending that atmospheric/orchestrated stuff came into the scene--and that is a direct head nod to Emperor. Both 1st wave True Norweigian Black Metal bands--but listin to Mayhem, then listin to Emperor---there is a reason Emperor sold out the LA and NY tour dates in 25 min when they "reunited".

There are still a ton of people out there who are fans of "true kult, grim and frostbitten black metal"--these guys usually have an issue with stuff like Dimmu Borgir or Hecate Enthroned. Why?--because they play their instruments well and it's actually produced??

Personally I do listin to alot of low-fi, early black metal--most of the guys that are worth anything evolved--

But yeah, there is always gonna be that group out there who thinks if it wasn't recorded on a 4 track in a basement with no heat while getting raped by the devil--its not real black metal.


And for the record--the term Black Metal is stolen from Venom like Cronos said "I appreciate the gesture--but what you hear from those bands is not black metal--only Venom is black metal".

That might be true, but Bathory gave it it's sound--and no one since has ever been able to duplicate or surpass that dirty, fast--evil, "Motorhead on steroids" sound.....I love Bathory!

[BaronLatos35]

I'll check out Emperor and Bathory, thanks for the heads up Black Lagoon.

In regards to the Mayhem style bands, I never got their whole scene. Taking pictures of your dead former bandmate's suicide and putting it on the album cover? Burning down churches? Hating everybody who's not like you? Look, I'm all for whatever your beliefs are, I understand the need for the image deal, basically whatever you dig right? But come on man, those dudes seemed all wrapped up in some nonsense that they actually believed. You don't see Slayer running around cutting off heads. Then you have the whole Nazi Black metal scene. I'll pass on that kind of hate.

What was next? Burning down churches with people inside? Killing everybody who wasn't in their "inner circle"? Man, how about my foot in your a** dude and shut the hell up! LOL.

I was liking the image of it though. The cover to one Mayhem album was some gothic looking steeples on a blue black background. It looked straight out of a Hammer film. I've seen some other cool looking gothic covers from bands and I've been interested, but after that whole Mayhem nonsense I tuned out anything that was labeled Black metal.

[BlackLagoon]

That is what kind of drove me out of the black metal thing--it got to the ridiculous point with the church burnings and all that retardedness. Drove me out as far as "movement" goes.

That album title you're talking about is Mayhem's "De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas"--which has Funeral Fog on it--great song, great album, but the whole Euronymous thing is stupid.

He was a fake anyway, half of the community called him out back when Mayhem were doing there thing.

Years ago the drummer Hellhammer had a famous quote "Black metal is for white people"--even though you are of South American descent---f'ing retarded.

As far as "national socialist black metal"--I wouldn't ever spend a dime on it or my time listining to it. Same thing with some punk rock--Exploited was/is a great band--I won't support them anymore because of a song "F--k The USA". I am a metal guy and have written some lyrics which def push the envelope--but I have a line and I just don't support stuff like that.

Speaking of lines, I probably already went over it with that last paragraph so we'll just leave it at that.


Anyway I will post some black metal I dig--check it out, and let me know.

[BlackLagoon]

Emperor - The Source of Icon E

Emperor

Dissection - Where Dead Angels Lie(live)

A classic Dissection tune (black/death/metal)

Bathory - A Fine Day to Die

Before "black" or "Viking" metal had a name--there was Quorthon and Bathory.

[Wicked Lester]

Emperor-NOISE.
Dissection- not bad but kinda long.
Bathory-Def,IMO not one of the best of the discography.

Aside from stuff like Venom this is what I am used to listening to BM wise.

Kalmah - Time Takes Us All

Thyrane - Dance In The Air


And this is a tribute and is straight forward epic Viking.

Bathory - Mother Earth Father Thunder

[Wicked Lester]

Even tho ya can't see the vid the link still brings ya to Youtube. Check it out.