Wolfman: Yay or Nay?

[monsterbaker]

OK I think it is time for me to chime in again.
I am glad to her that some of you liked it. I am also very happy that you seemed to like the make-up. I hope it is not just because you all know that I am a lurker on this forum.
I pretty much agree with the general consensus here. I must admit when I saw the film at the premiere it didn't put me in the best of moods. Like I said before it is really hard to see a film that you have worked on for the first time. It has actually brought me to tears on more than one occasion. What disappointed me the most, besides all of the cool shots that we did that aren't in the film, is the use of un necessary CG "enhancements" on my make ups. Mind you I think the CG guys headed by Steve Begg did some really cool stuff in the film. I also think they are getting an undeserved bad rap .I personally thought the bear and stag were good. You should have seen the not so good bear suit that they rented for shooting. I also thought there was some really cool stuff in the transformations. I still would have like to have been more involved in the transformations and think I could have made them even cooler but that was not to be on this film. I do think it was the right decision to do the CG stuff as it gave them more time to make it better. We couldn't get anyone to talk about transformation stuff in pre production. Dave Elsey and I had our crew make things that we thought might be useful like change-o hands that bend in unnatural positions change –o feet that turn into wolf feet but, we did these in a few weeks while we were also really busy filming and trying to play catch up. If they were filmed they would have been rushed and I am convinced that they would not have been as good as the CG stuff used in the film. Mind you we could have made them in post and added them later. I must admit that I am jealous of all of the time that the CG guys had to do the transformation. They were working right up to the final release.
That is always the problem of doing stuff during production. First you have to get someone to decide what they want in pre production and I need the decision way before the directors or producers have their heads in the film. They are usually finishing up another film when I need the answers.  The other problem is our work is shot during principal photography usually left for the last shot of the day and rushed. You get a take or two and that is what ends up in the film. How nice it must be to do it, study it, fix it and continue to make it better right up until the end. Like I said I am jealous of that.
But, just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should. Fix it in post has become the way films are made. It has made sloppy filmmaking in my opinion. Mind you I think it is great that you can fix things in post but when they fix things that don't need to be fixed that bugs me.   
Ok enough of me rambling on about me.

Dave and Lou Elsey and I went to see the film on Friday night with a real audience and we liked it much better. Just like some hear have said. I do think it is the best monster movie that has been made in a long time. Yes it is not perfect, but when are they? It is an old school monster movie and I am really happy to see someone doing just that, making a movie with a monster ,with some atmosphere and making one with an A list cast and crew.
My biggest complaint is that you don't ever have the sympathy with Laurence in this film that you do have in the original. That and the fact that I wasn't used to my fullest ability on this film. I was more that willing, if fact you could say that I was obnoxious about it. I was begging to allow them to let me contribute more. Some day I will tell you all of the stories but I have already gone on way too long for now.
Let's hope that the film makes enough money so that Universal, and others, make more monster movies. It is kind of scary though, I looked up what Van Helsing did on its opening weekend and it made like 20 million more than the Wolfman.

[Lord Blood-Rah]

Was it my imagination, or did I catch a glimpse of the pentagram in Del Toro's hand during his first transformation into the werewolf?  I could have sworn I saw it there very briefly. 

~Penny~

Yes!  I do believe it's there.

[zombiehorror]

Thanks for taking the time out to give us your view on what I'm sure was a film that was very close to your heart!

Let's hope that the film makes enough money so that Universal, and others, make more monster movies. It is kind of scary though, I looked up what Van Helsing did on its opening weekend and it made like 20 million more than the Wolfman.

Van Helsing was also rated PG-13.  And though it didn't have the best opening date for a monster film it was still better than releasing it on Valentine's weekend when a huge "chick" flick was playing....How many  do you think had to set aside seeing the Wolfman to go see Valentine's Day!??  I just hope The Wolfman stays around in the theater for awhile boosting box office.

[CreepyJeff]

"It is kind of scary though, I looked up what Van Helsing did on its opening weekend and it made like 20 million more than the Wolfman."

While I can understand your concern Rick, do not lose sight on the fact that the hype of Van Helsing was greater than that of the new Wolfman.  The difference is Van Helsing was by and large abhorred by folks that went to see it.  Bad buzz resulted in negligible box office numbers following opening weekend.

The Wolfman, however (at least at this group) is receiving high praise on many fronts and is garnering repeat viewings.  I have all the confidence in the world that once the dust settles on the Wolfman's theatrical run it will fly by Van Helsing in final tally.

Thank you for your wonderful contribution, Rick.  As has been reflected many times, it truly is an honor to  have you among us - even if you are primarily a lurker.  

[Opera Ghost]

Caught the Midnight show on the 11th(12th) and surprised to see only one other monsterkid in the audience (with his 17 year old!) More so, I was pleasantly surprised at the majority of the audience being 17-20 year olds. (Schools were closed in our area on Friday).

I loved it, but was a little urked at some UMA semi-spoilers. I would hope that everyone posts spoiler alerts beforehand. Loved the tie into Werewolf of London mythos and felt often that I was definitely seeing a combination of this, Curse of the Werewolf and the Wolf Man.

Thanks especially to Mr. Baker. Your werewolves always manage to really creep me out, and near the films closing with Gwen....made me so incredibly uncomfortable--in a great scared way. Your work, along with that of the Director and Mr. Del Torro re-ignited a childhood fear! Thank you!

*Spoiler comment* follows














Although I very much missed the Bela Character and the pity we felt with Lon Jr., the storyline's beginnings with Sir John certainly added to the storyline.

OG

[furiousveggie]

I love starting a thread that gets linked to the homepage

[SirJon]

Dave Elsey and I had our crew make things that we thought might be useful like change-o hands that bend in unnatural positions change –o feet that turn into wolf feet but, we did these in a few weeks while we were also really busy filming and trying to play catch up.

Rick,
I would have loved to see some of these things you mentioned in combination w/ the CGI. Any chance of seeing some of this in some additional or deleted footage on the DVD when it comes out?
Congratulations on the great job you did!
-Jon

[BlackLagoon]

OK I think it is time for me to chime in again.
I am glad to her that some of you liked it. I am also very happy that you seemed to like the make-up. I hope it is not just because you all know that I am a lurker on this forum.
I pretty much agree with the general consensus here. I must admit when I saw the film at the premiere it didn't put me in the best of moods. Like I said before it is really hard to see a film that you have worked on for the first time. It has actually brought me to tears on more than one occasion. What disappointed me the most, besides all of the cool shots that we did that aren't in the film, is the use of un necessary CG "enhancements" on my make ups. Mind you I think the CG guys headed by Steve Begg did some really cool stuff in the film. I also think they are getting an undeserved bad rap .I personally thought the bear and stag were good. You should have seen the not so good bear suit that they rented for shooting. I also thought there was some really cool stuff in the transformations. I still would have like to have been more involved in the transformations and think I could have made them even cooler but that was not to be on this film. I do think it was the right decision to do the CG stuff as it gave them more time to make it better. We couldn't get anyone to talk about transformation stuff in pre production. Dave Elsey and I had our crew make things that we thought might be useful like change-o hands that bend in unnatural positions change –o feet that turn into wolf feet but, we did these in a few weeks while we were also really busy filming and trying to play catch up. If they were filmed they would have been rushed and I am convinced that they would not have been as good as the CG stuff used in the film. Mind you we could have made them in post and added them later. I must admit that I am jealous of all of the time that the CG guys had to do the transformation. They were working right up to the final release.
That is always the problem of doing stuff during production. First you have to get someone to decide what they want in pre production and I need the decision way before the directors or producers have their heads in the film. They are usually finishing up another film when I need the answers.  The other problem is our work is shot during principal photography usually left for the last shot of the day and rushed. You get a take or two and that is what ends up in the film. How nice it must be to do it, study it, fix it and continue to make it better right up until the end. Like I said I am jealous of that.
But, just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should. Fix it in post has become the way films are made. It has made sloppy filmmaking in my opinion. Mind you I think it is great that you can fix things in post but when they fix things that don't need to be fixed that bugs me.   
Ok enough of me rambling on about me.

Dave and Lou Elsey and I went to see the film on Friday night with a real audience and we liked it much better. Just like some hear have said. I do think it is the best monster movie that has been made in a long time. Yes it is not perfect, but when are they? It is an old school monster movie and I am really happy to see someone doing just that, making a movie with a monster ,with some atmosphere and making one with an A list cast and crew.
My biggest complaint is that you don't ever have the sympathy with Laurence in this film that you do have in the original. That and the fact that I wasn't used to my fullest ability on this film. I was more that willing, if fact you could say that I was obnoxious about it. I was begging to allow them to let me contribute more. Some day I will tell you all of the stories but I have already gone on way too long for now.
Let's hope that the film makes enough money so that Universal, and others, make more monster movies. It is kind of scary though, I looked up what Van Helsing did on its opening weekend and it made like 20 million more than the Wolfman.

Sir...all I can is THANK YOU!!!!!  

[depressedlarrytalbot]

Rick, did Sir Anthony go into full makeup ? Settle my bet ... "let's split th'fee". 

[depressedlarrytalbot]

I didn't notice the alleged unreality of the bear and stag and still don't [second viewing - thus informed , I took special note] and have since read the bear was the same CG from GOLDEN COMPASS. But some of my fellow viewers who clued me in, not only noticed, but found the critters lacking. This proves either (i) the CG was good enough for this to be an eye-of-the-beholder thing or (ii) I am an old nearsighted fart.

Of course that may make Rick an old nearsighted fart as well ....   

[dadabigalow]

As I told my sons on the way out of the theater last tursday night after catching the midnight show.
I dont have a blu-ray player yet, but I will when this is released. It may be my 1st Blu-ray disc.

MonsterBaker,  Ive been a big fan of your Z-Brush work for years.

[hhwolfman]

Just saw it. FangTastic.  I didn't have a problem with the Bear (All though, I thought he looked weird When on all fours.) or any of the CGI.  I thought the gore was perfect, just enough for my taste and not over the Top. Anthony Hopkins was great as was everyone in the Movie. I thought the Anthony Hopkins Wolf Man was a lot like Curse.  Rick Baker, you are the man. Excellent Makeup.  On Tony and Del Toro. HHWolfman gives it 2 Paws up. 

[Gareee]

Great to see Rick "Monstermaker"'s comments here! We just saw the movie and I was wondering what he thought of it now that its been completed.

Generally I really liked it. Nothing could ever replace the original, but I think this is quite worthy of annual rewatching, and carrys the torch quite well.

There were a few things that bugged me in the film... Maliva (the old gypsy woman).. I really disliked the new one compared with the original character. More the actress then anything else.. her face was too long, her accent never felt the same, and I really hated all the dirts and grime under her fingernails, and her long skeletal hands.

The original felt like a kind old wise grandmother figure to me.. this new one just felt odd.

One thing I really miss (which is kinda silly) is the fog style.. I LOVE all the old universal ground fog effects.. there was fog in this, but real fog, not the ground hugging variety.

I also thought it was odd having Larry be a high brow theater actor. I always just pictured him as a savvy man's man businessman, not a shakspearian theater actor.

I thought all the cgi was very convincing.. much better then in Van Helsing, and more like American Werewolf. The film's pacing seemed to drag in a few spots.. they had plenty of editing and reshoot time to correct that.

I loved the London chase scene, but the final werewolve battle seemed a little too staged. I did really like the ending death scene for Larry though, with the waterfall behind them.. that felt very classic universal to me.

I'm wondering if we'll see a Hugo Weaving Wolfman II in the future?

[Gareee]

Oh! Rick.. any chance of you leaning on them to put in the shots you did in extended or alternate scenes on the dvd or blu ray release?

[Lord Blood-Rah]

Monsterbaker,
     It's an honor to post on the same forum as you!  Wonderful work as always.