Author Topic: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL  (Read 6715 times)

SpankRamen

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Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2008, 08:01:09 PM »
So, let me get this straight. Dracula plans to defeat Z by...breaking his nails? Great strategy there! I'm sure that will render him totally helpless. ::)

Oh yeah, I'm smelling Dracula barbecue.

Dracula wouldn't be able to get that close to Z, anyway. Remember, Z can just disappear & reappear somewhere else. Imagine: Z in Dracula's coffin, with a stake, just waiting for the perfect time to STRIKE! Shish Kabob funeral. 8)

The Drunken Severed Head

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Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2008, 10:17:34 PM »
Dracula wouldn't be able to get that close to Z, anyway. Remember, Z can just disappear & reappear somewhere else.
Dracula wouldn't be able to get that close to Z, anyway. Remember, Z can just disappear & reappear somewhere else. 8)
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I've seen enough vampire movies to know that they can disppear too, or turn into a mist. Trying staking a mist. ("OOPS! MISSED!") Besides, ol' Drac's got a powerful mojo workin' when you look into his eyes; I don't remember Coffin Joe being able to hypnotize with his gaze...  ;)
« Last Edit: February 08, 2008, 10:26:13 PM by The Drunken Severed Head »

SpankRamen

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Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2008, 10:55:18 PM »
)[/color]


I've seen enough vampire movies to know that they can disappear too, or turn into a mist. Trying staking a mist. ("OOPS! MISSED!") Besides, ol' Drac's got a powerful mojo workin' when you look into his eyes; I don't remember Coffin Joe being able to hypnotize with his gaze...  ;)


Dracula's eyes won't work on Z. When Z's eyes become bloodshot, your fanged friend would be wise to flee because Z will get buckwild. I know that Dracula can shape-shift. However, the rising sun puts your friend at a disadvantage. Dracula can't stay mist forever & Z will be waiting for his guard to come down. Z Do Caixo moves fast. Think about it: If spirits of the dead can't take my man down, what makes you think that Dracula has a chance? 8)

The Drunken Severed Head

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Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2008, 11:09:13 PM »
Think about it: If spirits of the dead can't take my man down, what makes you think that Dracula has a chance? 8)

Ain't it sca-reeming-ly obvious why? 'Cause I'm a Universal Monster fan! ;)

Ready to march onward with my army comrades, blasting any lesser monsters and madmen in foreign lands* away with Invisible Rays, then stomping the resistance with asphalt-spreader's boots! Flaying the skin from their bodies! (Or as Bela would have said it, "frllng the skeins from their buddies!") Using the Creature to waterboard insurgents! Crushing them with Monolith Monsters! Putting gypsy curses on them! Grrrrrrrr! Fight, fight, fight!



*Anyplace outside of Hollywoodland!

SpankRamen

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Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2008, 11:20:52 PM »
You love what you love as do I.
Z Do Caixo o numero um. Z mais forte!!!!!! ;D

Gary D Macabre

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Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2008, 03:26:19 PM »
OK I appreciate that you enjoy Ze as you do.  But I suppose it is prudent do discuss what characterization of Ze do Ciaxao we are speaking of, as there definitely seems to be two separate incarnations.  The First would be the Character seen in At Midnight I Will Take Your Soul, and the This Night I Will Posses Your Corpse (and the upcoming yet unreleased film).  The Second would be the comic book character that seems to be prevalent in the subsequent films.  Now as I am only familiar with the three disk box set, I am forced to limit my appraisals to that source material.  Please keep that in mind.

Now lets look at this with all serious objectivity.
The Latter appears to be the one the public consciousness has embraced as the Brazilian Boogy Man which is an interesting paradox, and very much a contradiction of the former character.  A demonic fantasy character (and Lord of the assmen) which exists in the minds of the delusional. I think this is an important distinction, he is not a physical character just a figment of the delusional psyche, which in himself offers no physical threat to the individual having the dreams beyond what there mind wants of him.  As the omniscient comic book host I quite like him, but cinematically this character to me is far less compelling (if not irritating in his contradictions, not only of the former characterization, but in his own dialog).  This is the Ze I believe by your earlier posts that you are more concerned with, Spank?

The Former is as he appears in the Soul and Corpse films. Being a classic horror fan, this is the CJ I enjoy, entwined in a traditional horror tale, presented with energetic inspired performances from Mojica. He is a sadistic and wholly self serving man with out ethics and a complete lack of a moral compass (I will not refer to him as evil, as his character loudly proclaims the absence of good and evil).  On top of that he is a delusional ego mainac. 

This I believe to be the legitimate and definitive Ze do Caixao.  To support this conclusion I first site the fact that Mojica has chosen this characterization for his most recent film rather than the fantasy version.  Secondly in the film Awakening of the Beast, there is a scene where he corrects one of the psychologists stating that he is Mojica Marins, NOT Ze do Caixao.  The Character of Ze Do Caixao was left in the swamp.  Perhaps Ray could offer any insight on which version of the Ze do Caixao character Mojica himself is more fond of?

That said the character in the first two movies proclaims himself to be immortal, but it is fairly clear that he does not mean in a physical sense as he, at one point in the film, is prepared to die at the hands of the hired thugs.  This character is a big fish in a small pond, terrorizing the people of the village, but is quite mortal.   At times however I'm sure the character does quite honestly believe himself to be immortal in body, but that is clearly a part of his fragile psychosis, as Mojica's direction clearly shows that he is no more than a mere man.  His path of immortality is through the passing of his genes to his progeny, and not his own physical existence.  I believe it is Ze himself that states the only truth to life is death. 

In both 'Soul' and 'Corpse' Ze goes on these wonderful rants shouting at God the Devil and the spirits of the dead calling them forth to strike him down.  Odd that a man so convinced of their in-existence feels need to compel them as such when in private?  Infact I would suggest that by his actions and his delusions he is not really convinced at all.  But I'll leave that debate to others schooled in matters of psychology.  What I can say for certain as it is on film, is that when the Ze do Caixao character is confronted with demons and the undead he completely breaks down.  Gripped in a paralyzing and all consuming terror.   

OK to the point. It is clear that the earlier portrayal of Ze do Caixao.  The Physical character would not be able to function if during his self justifying tirades on the in-existence of the supernatural the greatest of all the undead monsters arose from his grave to confront him.  And even if he were able to remain composed he would not be a physical match for a truly immortal being.  As Edward Van Sloan said in Dracula,  'A vampire's greatest strength is in peoples refusal to believe in them'  And I can't think of a character in all the genre more steadfastly opposed to believing in the existance of vampires and the undead than Ze do Ciaxao.

Now as for the latter incarnation of Ze it is my current understanding (Correct me if I am wrong here) that his existence is exclusively in a immaterial universe of the human mind. An in this universe he has all these wonderfully obtuse and obscure abilities such as appearing and disappearing instantaneously, shooting fire from the cuffs of his jacket (and commanding the butt people) Where as the physical Ze do Caixo had none of this.  This does of course pose the problem that the character of Dracula is a wholly physical and visceral character and that the whole point and terrifying nature of the undead is there existence in our physical world.  So when we put the two  characters together in a physical sense the outcome is pretty obvious. Unless you suggest that the confrontation occur while Dracula is hopped up on LSD. (Or distilled water believing it to be LSD ignoring the fact his brain is already addled by long term drug abuse).

Now don't get me wrong I'm not belittling Ze, fact is they are wonderful movies and he is a wonderful and convoluted character which I too am a fan of.  But if I were to suggest a match between Dracula and Norman Bates (Psycho being my favourite "other" horror), I couldn't even remotely convince myself that the outcome would be anything other than in Dracula's favour.  The physical Ze do Caixao character is in great company with other human characters as the Phantom, Murder Legendre , Jeckyll and Hyde, and many others, but they are human.

Now if you would like to debate my conclusions in a manner which clearly describes your line of thought and reasoning behind your conclusions, I welcome it.

GD (who is in serious need of a life right now, I think I'll go spend some time with my kids) 
« Last Edit: February 09, 2008, 04:07:36 PM by Gary D Macabre »
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SpankRamen

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Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2008, 08:30:56 PM »
You know what, Gary? I went to high school with guys just like you. One of those braniacs that say things like, "Let's assume that man can fly..." & then tries to make his point by using a physics equation! :P  Oh & correction. The Line goes: "I left Z Do Caixo in the cemetery. You're talking to Jose Mojica Marins."  8)

Anywho, since this is a pretend fight, I wanted to utilize all incarnations of Z Do Caixo just to make the fight more interesting. Now, I love the more solid Z. The Ze Do Caixao from the Midnight, Corpse, & the new Embodiment Of Evil. If I had to chose between the man & the hallucination, I go with Z as the man (Josefel Zanatas). I realize that this will take away his power to disappear, shoot fire, & control assmen :o (I have interesting thoughts about that, but anyway).

That being said, I do think that Josefel Zanatas could go toe-to-toe with Dracula. He spends most of his time terrorizing people. He can walk out in sunlight, use garlic, & I bet he's pretty handy with a stake. Really, the only thing that wouldn't work for Z is a Holy Cross because Z has no faith in Jesus Christ. Dracula is not completely invincible, he can be destroyed.

Gary D Macabre

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Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2008, 10:10:08 PM »
You know what, Gary? I went to high school with guys just like you. One of those braniacs that say things like, "Let's assume that man can fly..." & then tries to make his point by using a physics equation! :P

Yeah so? Your point there is what?
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Gary D Macabre

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Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2008, 10:33:33 PM »
Any way back on topic.  I was going to vote for Thing, but in a punch out, knock down, hand to hand, mono-a-mono, Kids with action figures type Battle I couldn't see a vulnerability Thing could exploit, so I chose IT.
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SpankRamen

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Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2008, 10:41:39 PM »
Yeah so? Your point there is what?

My point was that your looong post about Z reminded me of those guys. ::) You seemed to be REALLY into it & went so far in depth, it took me back to the 90's. :D

The Drunken Severed Head

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Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2008, 11:06:06 PM »
Gary, I thought your post was a thoughtful analysis. Thanks-- I enjoyed reading it!

Certainly Marins has created a very memorable character, even if it is one seen in two distinct manifestations.

Nicole

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Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2008, 11:44:23 AM »
Now as for the latter incarnation of Ze it is my current understanding (Correct me if I am wrong here) that his existence is exclusively in a immaterial universe of the human mind. An in this universe he has all these wonderfully obtuse and obscure abilities such as appearing and disappearing instantaneously, shooting fire from the cuffs of his jacket (and commanding the butt people) Where as the physical Ze do Caixo had none of this.

Wow, Gary, I can tell you've been thinking about this a lot. I used to write stuff like that, but then I felt like a total nerd afterwards, so now I don't. But yes, there are two other films with this latter incarnation of Zé, which you should definitely check out, if you can find them: The Black Exorcism, and Hallucinations of a Deranged Mind. Black Exorcism especially, explores the line between creator and creation more than Awakening does, and both toy with the idea of Zé do Caixão taking on a life of his own, outside of the films.

Of course, I too prefer Zé as he was in the first two films. It is true that Zé could probably dish out a far more interesting fight in his omnipotent form, but I'm in agreement that he still stands a good chance against Dracula, even without supernatural powers and yes, without aid from the butt people (which, by the way, are actually martians). ;D
« Last Edit: February 10, 2008, 11:47:55 AM by Nicole »
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ramsey37

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Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2008, 11:46:32 AM »
It is true that Z could probably dish out a far more interesting fight in his omnipotent form, but I'm in agreement that he still stands a good chance against Dracula, even without supernatural powers and yes, without aid from the butt people (which, by the way, are actually martians). ;D

Martians? Funny, I thought they were from Uranus...;)
George
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Nicole

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Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2008, 11:49:51 AM »
Martians? Funny, I thought they were from Uranus...;)
George

Thank you, George. That was priceless.
"If you can't learn to do it well, learn to enjoy doing it badly." -Ashleigh Brilliant

SpankRamen

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Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2008, 12:14:04 PM »
Martians? Funny, I thought they were from Uranus...;)
George

:D I love you, George. Great one! Brilliant! :D

 

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