Comic Book Collecting

[Mike...In 3-D!]

Do the Epic collections contain the letter pages and ads too? I'm curious as I've never purchased any of those volumes.

Nope, just the covers and the stories.

[Hepcat]

I agree in general with this, but not specifically to exclude Marvel. I grew up reading Marvel comics in the mid '60s and have very fond memories of enjoying Fantastic Four, Amazing Spider-Man, Thor, and Avengers issues from that period. One of the earliest comics I remember buying was Fantastic Four #35. I read that copy until it was literally in FAIR condition, even though the cover was still holding on.

I didn't say Marvel comics weren't good though. Due to Stan Lee's genius, they were very good indeed. I said only that Silver Age Marvel comics have always seemed expensive to me relative to their comparatively plentiful supply.

Eventually I'd like to acquire copies of some of the Marvel comics I remember reading or at least seeing as a kid, but unfortunately these include Fantastic Four 4 (Submariner intro) 7, 26 & 29, Amazing Spider-Man 7, 9, 11, 15, 20 & Annual 1 and Tales of Suspense 57 (Hawkeye intro) which are all cripplingly expensive.

When the first Iron Man movie started the MCU in 2008 it changed the game for back issue pricing on certain books. Comic book collecting was more of a niche thing for decades, the MCU made it mainstream, along with some TV shows and big cons like San Diego, and You Tube, of course. The crazy prices are ingrained in the collective psyche, and every time there's hype about the next big MCU thing it increases demand and the prices keep getting crazier. Most already loved Marvel characters in general from the classic comics in the Silver and Bronze Ages, and most of the MCU movies are so good it just made so many people go nuts with such high demand for certain books.

Keep in mind that much of the increase in demand for the comics that get big boosts from impending flicks is from the speculator/investor crowd. Meaning as they all jump on the bandwagon, price increases become a self-fulfilling prophecy. But this is a short term phenomenon. These speculators don't have the hardcore collector/enthusiast mentality and aren't putting the comic away to hold forever. What's going to happen when fresh demand starts to dry up and all the speculators head for the exit at the same time? The same thing that's happened in the case of all other speculative bubbles in the past methinks.

The crazy thing is I don't think some of those keys will ever go down again the way the market used to fluctuate.... I don't see prices on older Marvel keys ever dropping.

Ever is a long time. What's going to happen to the price of many of those not uncommon Silver Age "key" issues when they're no longer the flavour du jour because the bloom has come off the hype generated by the latest hot movie? What's going to happen to the overall market for highly prized Silver Age superhero comics when more and more of the baby boomers who read these in the 1960's retire and start "estate planning", i.e. selling?

[Hepcat]

Here's another question. How do you guys store your comics? This has probably been discussed before but I thought to ask it again so we can get several people answering in the same place. Hopefully, over time, a few people will chime in with their comic book storage methods.

My "really good" comics are all in Bill Cole Arklites backed by Thin X-Tender boards or else Gerber Mylites backed by Half-Backs. I've not yet bagged and boarded my magazine collection in the same way but that's my intention.

I keep my comics and magazines in two large lateral filing cabinets. Here from a few years ago are pictures of these cabinets:

[Hepcat]

In terms of age, just think what young collectors must consider 60's Marvels? For them Fifty years ago must seem like forever.

Up to the age of about 25, anything prior to my birth seemed like ancient history. I was bewildered at the age of thirteen in 1965 when I encountered a satire incorporating the usage of the word "Shazam" since I knew nothing of Captain Marvel at the time.  And I was equally bewildered by ABC's announcements in 1966 that they were "bringing back" the Green Hornet and Kato since I'd never heard of the characters.

I suspect that kids these days are much better informed concerning the pop culture that transpired prior to their birth because of the internet.

[Hepcat]

But, seemingly any Silver Age key costs several times what the non-keys sell for in the same grade.

To me a "key" is any comic I remember from my childhood days. That being said I'm as reluctant to pay the premium prices for what's defined as a "key" by the broad marketplace just as I am to pay up for "star" sports cards. In fact I'm even less tempted by comic keys for which I feel no nostalgia than I am by star sports cards because I've found that I remember gazing at star sports cards as a kid much more strongly than I remember gazing at the commons.

That brings up another point. I know people collect very differently, as some folks try to finish title runs or runs of certain storylines or artists, while other collectors are obsessive about certain characters and try to get every appearance (that they can afford anyway).

I'm a completist. Therefore if I buy any comic in a run, that means I'm automatically collecting that entire run and have to try to complete it over time. That causes me to be reluctant to buy comics outside of the runs I'm already collecting.

What about you guys? Do you draw the line at certain price points and just not plan on getting that issue unless an unbelievably good deal presents itself, or do you budget and save and sell other things to get really expensive issues? Also, what price points give you pause, $100, $200, $500, $1K? For me it must be a book I want very badly to spend over $100 on a single comic, and $200 is just about a hard line for me anymore unless I'm getting a killer deal. I'm just curious how other collectors deal with the extreme prices in the market these days.

The most I ever paid for an individual issue was back in 2005 or so when I spent nearly $5000 on this copy of Flash 105:





Sadly those free spending days seem to be long behind me. Anything over $1000 would give me serious pause these days.

[horrorhunter]

Ever is a long time. What's going to happen to the price of many of those not uncommon Silver Age "key" issues when they're no longer the flavour du jour because the bloom has come off the hype generated by the latest hot movie? What's going to happen to the overall market for highly prized Silver Age superhero comics when more and more of the baby boomers who read these in the 1960's retire and start "estate planning", i.e. selling?

I didn't mean "ever" in a literal sense. I was really referring to the next 20-30 years, which is about as far into the future that civilization can really count on anyway the way things are these days. Within this time frame I don't believe the main Marvel keys from the '60s, and some from the '70s, will drop in price. I think the value on those books is solid enough to make increases and hold ground until the next increase. I'm talking about books like Amazing Fantasy #15, Spider-Man #1, Fantastic Four #1, etc., and even books like Fantastic Four #48, 49 and Silver Surfer #1, 3, and 4. Also, Incredible Hulk #181 and Giant-Size X-men #1 from the '70s, as well as House Of Secrets #92 (DC), and even Werewolf By Night #32 and Tomb Of Dracula #10 if the MCU offerings deliver on Moon Knight and Blade. Books from the '80s onward will still fluctuate, the newer the book the more chance it might drop. Those over-valued cover variants from the last few years may be in bargain boxes later on alongside the cover variants from the '90s. The MCU will probably be influencing the market for the next 10-20 years or longer. I'm not expecting Marvel Silver Age keys (and some Bronze) to drop in value at all in the foreseeable future, just continue to get more unattainable for the average collector. I really hope I'm wrong about this since I'd like to eventually get a few more of these books.

By your comments it reads like you're somewhat bitter that you turned up your nose concerning Marvel comics past the time frame of being able to afford some of the ones you've decided you actually want to add to your collection. I have regrets, too, as many of us do, that I didn't buy more of these issues years ago. In my case I never looked down on Marvel comics, on the contrary I held them in high regard, but I was complacent enough to think most of them would still be affordable in the future, especially after the '90s market crash. At this point I'm just happy to have what I do, and thankful I didn't sell off my whole collection back in the '90s and early 2000s the way some people did. Those are the folks who have cause for serious regret.

[Hepcat]

By your comments it reads like you're somewhat bitter that you turned up your nose concerning Marvel comics past the time frame of being able to afford some of the ones you've decided you actually want to add to your collection. I have regrets, too, as many of us do, that I didn't buy more of these issues years ago. In my case I never looked down on Marvel comics....

"Bitter" is far too strong a word. My only regret when it comes to my comic collecting efforts is that back in the 1979-2000 years I didn't put more of a concerted effort into tracking down really high grade copies of the comics I remember from 1960-65 instead of octopusing out into completing the latter part of these runs and into "secondary" titles. But when comics such as those earlyFlash, Green Lantern, Mystery in Space, Challengers of the Unknown, etc. were more affordable (according to the Overstreet Price Guide anyway), they couldn't be found. The owners simply weren't tempted to sell them at those prices. It's an economic adage that "High prices bring forth the quantity supplied."

With respect to the Marvels, there's really only a dozen or so imbued with enough nostalgia for me that I regret not buying them back in the day.

In my case I never looked down on Marvel comics, on the contrary I held them in high regard, but I was complacent enough to think most of them would still be affordable in the future, especially after the '90s market crash.

I never said or even implied that I "looked down" on Marvels. I was merely annoyed to see Marvel comics (all at high prices of course) dominating the wall space at comic shops and conventions while I quite simply just couldn't find high grade copies of those early Flash, Green Lantern, Justice League, Adventures of the Fly, etc. comics at any price.

At this point I'm just happy to have what I do, and thankful I didn't sell off my whole collection back in the '90s and early 2000s the way some people did. Those are the folks who have cause for serious regret.

Oh I agree! I've read many tales of regret from collectors who "cashed in" far too early and now have neither the comics nor the money. In fact it may have been right here on UMA that a poster mentioned that he turned over an expensive Marvel comic to his twenty year old son thinking that the son would cherish it for its aesthetic appeal and some day in the distant future benefit from the price it fetched. Well the son sold the comic immediately and took his girlfriend out to an expensive restaurant with the proceeds. So now both the comic and the money are gone.

[Hepcat]

Admittedly, I'm not a gleaming example of how to properly store comics for archival purposes. I use standard, acid free boards and Mylite 2 bags for everything. I have everything stored spine out (alternating the spines to prevent rolling) on bookshelves.

Sounds like A+ grade storage practices to me!

I have ... a full spinner rack of books with cool looking covers.

Hey! Spinner racks are wild cool. Show us some photos.

[Hepcat]

Do the Epic collections contain the letter pages and ads too? I'm curious as I've never purchased any of those volumes. While I agree that reprints are a great way to get the original stories, there's something to be said about owning the original issue. For me, the comic is a time capsule or a window back to a different generation.

Nope, just the covers and the stories.

Which is the same as the DC Archive Editions which also don't contain any of the ancillary features such as letter columns or ads. That's unfortunate because the ancillary features were a big part of the fun proposition that comics delivered.

That's why I'll never buy a slabbed comic (with the possible exception of Hulk 181 because of the MVS issue). I want to read and experience the comic, not place it in " the morgue ", as folks use to refer to slabs when they first became a thing.

I fully agree. Free all comics from their plastic prisons!

[horrorhunter]

Nope, just the covers and the stories.

Which is the same as the DC Archive Editions which also don't contain any of the ancillary features such as letter columns or ads. That's unfortunate because the ancillary features were a big part of the fun proposition that comics delivered.

Yes, the ads, editorials, and letters sections, are very important for the overall comic book experience. That's why I favor buying original issues over reprints when possible, even just low grade reader copies if necessary. Another great thing is the smell of old newsprint while reading an original copy... it's like perfume which adds to the ambience of the whole experience. Very few smells are more enjoyable to long time comic book fans.

I fully agree. Free all comics from their plastic prisons!

I'm certainly no slab guy either. I've only ever owned two slabbed comics and those are both cracked out. The only way I would buy a slabbed book is if I couldn't inspect the book in person and the price isn't jacked up for the slab. I would never submit a book for slabbing if it's one I plan to keep, and the only way I would submit at all is for a very high grade, high value book that I planned to sell, which hasn't happened yet and probably won't. In the current marketplace expensive high grade books bring more money when slabbed, and that's just a fact. If the 3rd party pro graders depended on people like me to stay in business they would quickly close down.

[horrorhunter]

Here's a scan of my Sinister House Of Secret Love #1 (DC, 1971):



This title ran for 4 issues and then changed to Secrets Of Sinister House which ran 14 more issues up to #18. It, and it's sister title, Dark Mansion Of Forbidden Love (which changed to Forbidden Tales Of Dark Mansion after 4 issues and went 15 total), were Gothic Romance/Horror titles inspired by the popularity of daytime monster-drama Dark Shadows. Artist Victor Kalin did a masterful job on the cover. Kalin was best known for paperback covers among other things. In trying to tap into the Gothic Romance market they seemingly enlisted the talents of artists known for such for some of the early covers. Apparently the Romance/Horror angle wasn't too successful since DC changed both titles to straight Horror after 4 issues of each. The covers on those early issues are quite beautiful though.

Here's a scan of the back cover featuring a spectacular ad for Aurora's Monster Scenes kits:

[geezer butler]

Hey, GB. I decided to check out UMA after 6 months hiatus and I'm a little surprised to see this thread still rollin'. Anyway, I thought to respond to your post above.

I understand your frustration regarding the pricing on WBN #32 and TOD #10. As we know, the significance of those two issues is the popularity of Moon Knight and Blade, and the accepted importance of first appearances in today's comic book marketplace. Both issues are very plentiful but were considered more and more "demand-scarce" over the years which steadily drove up prices. As with many comics they were expensive before, but in this time of MCU hype with Dr. Strange, Multiverse Of Madness looming in the future threatening to loose the supernatural dark side of the Marvel Universe on the MCU (and TV show rumblings), the prices on those two books are getting more ridiculous all the time. If I didn't already have them I would be satisfied with reprints to fill those holes in the respective runs. No, I wouldn't spend hundreds of dollars for low-mid grade copies, nor thousands for high grade copies. I know it seems like price gouging but it's really just the free marketplace in action. A few people will pay those crazy prices so it doesn't matter if most of us can't, or won't. The books still command those values in the public mind and that's what sets fair market prices. Still, I agree with you, as much as I love both characters I think the books are way overpriced.

I check eBay periodically to get a gauge of current comic values and I've noticed a trend towards very low grade copies of key books for sale for much more than ever before. Books in FAIR and even POOR and incomplete are getting priced at near GOOD and sometimes even more. It's as if demand for any copy of certain books, regardless of condition, has risen to the point that sellers are placing previously unheard of prices on really crappy copies. Maybe those ultra low grade copies are selling at a premium because some collectors will pay a huge amount just to have a copy, ANY copy, of that issue in their collection. I find this very peculiar since for decades FAIR copies were valued at around 1/2 of GOOD, and a POOR copy would be considered virtually worthless unless it was a mega-key, and even then might just sell for a small percentage of what a GOOD copy would bring.

Getting back to your original post about pricing, I focus most on less expensive comics these days. I had much rather get several mid (or even low) grade issues I need to complete a run than one or two high grade issues. I go after what I like that isn't "hot" these days so I avoid the Marvel keys with the MCU stirring up the marketplace. Recently I've been getting good deals on books like DC War comics (SSWS #138-149, 1st Enemy Ace), Space Ghost #1 (Gold Key), and Hanna-Barbera Super TV Heroes #s 1-7 (complete run). Thankfully, I've completed most of the Bronze Horror titles by the big 2, as well as most monster mag titles, so now I'm working on Charlton and Gold Key Horror as well as titles like Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea (have #1-13, need 14-16). Also, I'm constantly on the hunt for different Monster and Halloween items when a good deal presents itself (toys, masks, posters, games, etc.). So, to sum up, my days of dropping big bucks on single comics have ground to a halt... too much other cool stuff out there that's very affordable.

Thanks for your insight Double H, good to see you back in here!!

[horrorhunter]

Thanks for your insight Double H, good to see you back in here!!

Thanks, bro.

Sometimes we just need a break from social interaction when the real world gets too loud.

[horrorhunter]

The first six issues of my Silver Surfer run:





I bought Silver Surfer #s 9 and 12 off the spinner rack when I was a kid and have been a Surfer fan since. I finished the run in the late '70s and '80s. They were relatively expensive back then but now they're getting hard to afford, and issues 1, 3 (1st Mephisto), and 4 (classic Thor cover), are hitting crazy prices. My favorite issue is #12 with the Abomination which I upgraded recently from G/VG up to FN+. Hard to beat the John Buscema art on books from the late Silver and early Bronze Ages. I think Buscema equaled Kirby when it came to depicting superhero battles and action in general, and "Big" John's anatomy was better than the "King's" IMO. In the late '70s I used "Silver Surfer" as my CB handle when I went through that fad. I got tired of the CB thing pretty quick, but I'll always love the Surfer.

[Rex fury]

Nice run of the Surfer,  Horrorhunter. Loved the Sinister House cover too!
RF