Barlow's Hierarchy of Acceptable Halloween Costumes

[Barlow]

Barlow's Hierarchy of Acceptable Halloween Costumes
So I've brought this topic up before - how I despise people dressing as sports figures, politicians, and other non-Halloween things for Halloween. Look, if you want to go dressed up as a French maid or a cop, go to a non-Halloween costume party! Halloween is about HORROR, not silliness and parody. I really hate the dilution of the holiday to the point where there's more non-monster costumes in most stores than actual monster costumes.

I got into a discussion about this the other day with my cousin and decided to share my part of it here. I told him I was calling it Barlow's Hierarchy of Acceptable Halloween Costumes. The higher up the scale (towards 1 and 2), the more acceptable the costume is for faithful Halloween celebration. The lower it is on the scale (towards 9 and 10), the less acceptable it is. Here are the ranks I devised based on how I see Halloween...

1. Horror Monster Costumes - These are the best choice, since they're what Halloween is all about. Vampires, ghosts, Frankenstein monsters, werewolves, witches, ghouls, zombies, etc. If it's supernatural/horror in origin, then it's the perfect Halloween costume. You come to my door dressed like this, you get boat loads of super-sized candy bars and get tons of praise heaped on you, maybe even a few special treats like mini-packs of monster cards or rubber spiders or bats.

2. Sci-fi Monster Costumes - Sci-fi is a bit different than horror since it's based on science as opposed to the supernatural, but it's such a perfect fit (like peanut butter and jelly) that I think these work just fine as a second choice. Alien aliens, Predator aliens, Martians, Blobs, Metaluna Mutants, etc. They're all monsters for our purposes, just not quite as traditional as the supernatural monsters. But still very appropriate. No complaints here. Once again, you come to my door dressed like this, you get boat loads of super-sized candy bars and get tons of praise heaped on you, maybe even a few special treats like mini-packs of monster cards or rubber spiders or bats.

3. Halloween Themed Non-Monster Costumes - For example, scarecrows, pumpkin figures, spiders, bats, etc. These fit the spirit of Halloween despite not being horror or sci-fi per se. Still, very acceptable. You come to my door dressed like this, you get a few super sized candy bars.

4. Fantasy Costumes - Wizards, Harry Potter costumes, Lord of the Rings costumes, etc. Hot really horror per se, or sci-fi or even Halloween themed to some degree. But still has plenty of the trappings of Halloween - magic, spells, strange beings. You come to my door dressed like this, you get a few super sized candy bars.

5.  Creepy But Non Monsters - Goth stuff, bloody corpses, dismembered bodies, axes sticking out of the head, vaguely sinister looking costumes such as hags or undefined crazy mad scientist/doctors. Still somewhat related to horror, but not nearly as good as the first three levels. You come to my door dressed like this, you get a regular sized candy bar. Or maybe a handful of smaller treats. Not both.

6. Superheroes - If you're a kid, I cut you more slack. Who didn't want to go as Spiderman or Hawkman for Halloween as a kid? But really, superheroes have nothing to do with Halloween. Not horror, not sci-fi, not fantasy, not Halloween themed (obviously, we're talking about superheroes and not monster characters published by Marvel or DC like Werewolf by Night or Dracula). You come to my door dressed like this, you get couple of pieces of small candy, like 2-3 Starbursts.

7. Funny Stuff  - Look, clowns are not Halloween costumes! Just stop it! Scary clowns like the one from IT are ok, but not Bozo, if that makes sense. Policemen, astronauts, tacos, toilets, cultural garb (Mexicans wearing sombreros), princesses, Disney nonsense...JUST STOP IT! You come to my door dressed like this, you better hope all you get is a few empty candy wrappers and rock or something (to help crush all the other candy you swindled other people out of!).

8. School Uniforms - Look, your soccer uniform from school is NOT a Halloween costume. It's not even a costume, it's a uniform. There's a difference. If mom is too lazy to buy or make you a real Halloween costume and sends you out in your school uniform or your karate gi, not only are you getting a rock (or something from my garbage, like opened, empty, smelly tuna cans) but you (or your parent who's with you if you're a kid) are getting a lecturing from me about how she's lazy and ruining Halloween. Hopefully the kid doesn't end up in therapy over this, but life has to be harsh sometimes, it's how we learn our lessons. Someone has to be the bad guy.

9. Politicians / Sexualized Costumes - You come as a sexy French maid, or as a parody of your particular hated party of politician or president, or a giant penis or something, all you're getting from me is a shot of pepper spray and a boot to your backside to get you off my steps! I utterly despise people who sexualize or politicize Halloween - even more so when they do it to their kids. That's child abuse. Get your mind out of the gutter and stop your propaganda and celebrate the freaking holiday already!

So that's my plan to take back Halloween. It's like a merit system. I'll tell people why they're getting (or not getting!) based on their Halloween spirit. That will encourage more true Halloween costumes and provide a disincentive to those who want to water down and ruin the holiday.

Lest anyone flip out, it's meant to be more tongue-in-cheek than it sounds. But then again, I always do give a lot more to those who embody the spirit of the season than I do to those who go for the silly stuff or ridiculous non-themed stuff. I am though, very tempted to truly put this system into place in full force. I want Halloween back!

[Mike Scott]

The higher up the scale (towards 1 and 2), the more acceptable the costume is for faithful Halloween celebration. The lower it is on the scale (towards 9 and 10), the less acceptable it is.

You don't have a 9 or 10. It goes, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

[Barlow]

Yeah, I forgot it doesn't go that high. Ran out of categories. And a few typos. Let me fix that...


Ok, so it goes from 1 to 9. Not 10.

[Mike Scott]

The first two categories are the ones for me! You can have the rest.

[Hepcat]

Barlow's Hierarchy of Acceptable Halloween Costumes

So I've brought this topic up before - how I despise people dressing as sports figures, politicians, and other non-Halloween things for Halloween.

Overall I can't agree with your post. I have several points of contention:

1. Horror Monster Costumes - These are the best choice, since they're what Halloween is all about. Vampires, ghosts, Frankenstein monsters, werewolves, witches, ghouls, zombies, etc. If it's supernatural/horror in origin, then it's the perfect Halloween costume.

2. Sci-fi Monster Costumes - Sci-fi is a bit different than horror since it's based on science as opposed to the supernatural, but it's such a perfect fit (like peanut butter and jelly) that I think these work just fine as a second choice. Alien aliens, Predator aliens, Martians, Blobs, Metaluna Mutants, etc. They're all monsters for our purposes, just not quite as traditional as the supernatural monsters. But still very appropriate. No complaints here.

3. Halloween Themed Non-Monster Costumes - For example, scarecrows, pumpkin figures, spiders, bats, etc. These fit the spirit of Halloween despite not being horror or sci-fi per se. Still, very acceptable.

If the holiday is Halloween and you therefore want it to be about Halloween, shouldn't Halloween-themed costumes (which would include ghosts and witches) be #1 on your list as opposed to #3? Sure I like the Universal monsters, but they're a later 20th century add-on to Halloween!

9. Politicians / Sexualized Costumes - You come as a sexy French maid, or as a parody of your particular hated party of politician or president, or a giant penis or something, all you're getting from me is a shot of pepper spray and a boot to your backside to get you off my steps! I utterly despise people who sexualize or politicize Halloween - even more so when they do it to their kids. That's child abuse. Get your mind out of the gutter and stop your propaganda and celebrate the freaking holiday already!

Okay. Politicians are meh, but what can you possibly have against sexualized imagery at Halloween?

It is widely believed that many Halloween traditions originated from ancient Celtic harvest festivals, particularly the Gaelic festival Samhain; that such festivals may have had pagan roots....

Yes! Halloween was for centuries a pagan festival celebrated by wicca and other devotees of ancient pre-Christian culture dancing naked around a bonfire!









That's for centuries been an integral part of the charm of Halloween! And have you forgotten how much sexual imagery is included in all the Universal and Hammer Horror flicks to which this board is devoted?









I'm surprised you haven't been turned into a toad by any of the damsels above!

5.  Creepy But Non Monsters - Goth stuff, bloody corpses, dismembered bodies, axes sticking out of the head, vaguely sinister looking costumes such as hags or undefined crazy mad scientist/doctors. Still somewhat related to horror, but not nearly as good as the first three levels.

I'll pass on the "bloody corpses, dismembered bodies, axes sticking out of the head." None of that stuff needs celebrating. It's in the newspapers on a daily basis.

7. Funny Stuff  - Look, clowns are not Halloween costumes! Just stop it! Scary clowns like the one from IT are ok, but not Bozo, if that makes sense. Policemen, astronauts, tacos, toilets, cultural garb (Mexicans wearing sombreros), princesses, Disney nonsense...JUST STOP IT! You come to my door dressed like this, you better hope all you get is a few empty candy wrappers and rock or something (to help crush all the other candy you swindled other people out of!).

I disagree. Now we here on UMA all love Halloween but keep in mind that Halloween didn't become the big time holiday with which we grew up until it was commercialized as a kids' holiday in 20th century America by the costume makers and candy companies! Trick or treating was what put Halloween on the calendar for most of us. Yet your indictment of these lighter in nature costumes amounts to a dismissal of most of the Halco, Ben Cooper and Collegeville costumes that were displayed hanging from the ceiling in October at neighbourhood or downtown Woolworth, Kresge, W.T. Grant, Zellers or Metropolitan stores! Why would you do that? That's precisely part of the imagery that makes Halloween such a treasured part of the calendar for most members of this board!

Interesting too that you're exactly the opposite of my father (who intrinsically didn't like Halloween because he didn't like all these kids begging at the door as if they were paupers). He always said that kids wearing scary as opposed to cutesy costumes got less candy from him.

I'm in the middle someplace. I'm an eager celebrant when it comes to sexy witches and vampires, ghosts, scarecrows, jack-o-lanterns, black cats, bats, rats, owls, crows, spiders, chocolate bars, bubble gum, Tootsie Roll Pops and potato chips. I've even grown accustomed to the mothers accompanying their kids. So much the better to make lewd and suggestive comments about how we can celebrate further once they pack the kids off to bed! I mean what's not to like?

[Barlow]

Hepcat wrote:

If the holiday is Halloween and you therefore want it to be about Halloween, shouldn't Halloween-themed costumes (which would include ghosts and witches) be #1 on your list as opposed to #3? Sure I like the Universal monsters, but they're a later 20th century add-on to Halloween!

 
No, but let me explain. Halloween (as I've lived it growing up) is all about monsters and horror. At least that's how we celebrate it in the USA since I was a kid. So costumes should be those of monsters - vampires, ghouls, witches, etc. Those are the best costumes. Halloween "themed" costumes would be any that are typical of Halloween season, but not necessarily based on horror - so bats, pumpkins, scarecrows, etc., those are all fitting for the season of Halloween and add to the ambiance, but they're not horror or monster themed, so I feel that they're in a lower category. 

Okay. Politicians are meh, but what can you possibly have against sexualized imagery at Halloween?

 
Oh, I don't know...EVERYTHING? What the hell does sex have to do with Halloween? I for one am sick and tired of people trying to sexualize everything from shaving cream ads to comic books to every holiday there is. As much as I enjoy seeing a hot girl in a sexy vampire costume, it's just inappropriate. I'm far from a prude, but come on! Can't people have fun without sexualizing something? It tells me there's some sort of mental issue with people needing to mix sex into everything. That's just not normal.

Yes! Halloween was for centuries a pagan festival celebrated by wicca and other devotees of ancient pre-Christian culture dancing naked around a bonfire!

 
I'm not a pagan or a wiccan, nor do I care about prancing around a bonfire naked. What does that have to do with Halloween in modern times? I'm not celebrating Samhain, I'm celebrating Halloween as it's been celebrated in America all my life.

 

That's for centuries been an integral part of the charm of Halloween! And have you forgotten how much sexual imagery is included in all the Universal and Hammer Horror flicks to which this board is devoted?

 
Oh please! All those movies are rated G. You can't possibly be serious. Show me a Universal movie where the women are dressed in bikinis with nipples showing and overt sexuality. Yes, Hammer had well endowed women. But not the sort of sexualization that goes on today. People RUIN holidays by making it about their insane political hang ups and sexual depravity. 

 

I'll pass on the "bloody corpses, dismembered bodies, axes sticking out of the head." None of that stuff needs celebrating. It's in the newspapers on a daily basis.

 
Yeah, it's not really what I think of as Halloween. Still, the slasher flicks like Halloween or Nightmare on Elm Street count as horror, so I'd give a little more credit to someone going as a dismembered corpse than to someone dressing up inappropriately as a politician or sexy maid. Those people are missing the point of the holiday. 

 

I disagree. Now we here on UMA all love Halloween but keep in mind that Halloween didn't become the big time holiday with which we grew up until it was commercialized as a kids' holiday in 20th century America by the costume makers and candy companies! Trick or treating was what put Halloween on the calendar for most of us. Yet your indictment of these lighter in nature costumes amounts to a dismissal of most of the Halco, Ben Cooper and Collegeville costumes that were displayed hanging from the ceiling in October at neighbourhood or downtown Woolworth, Kresge, W.T. Grant, Zellers or Metropolitan stores! Why would you do that? That's precisely part of the imagery that makes Halloween such a treasured part of the calendar for most members of this board!

 

 
Like I said, I can cut little kids some slack. I remember wanting to be an astronaut for Halloween when I was 4 years old. And yes, I am talking about Halloween in the 20th century as we've celebrated it in America. There's a reason, you know, that all the candy and decorations in the stores have monsters on them, to sell the holiday. Without making it more complicated than it needs to be, Halloween is a holiday for horror and monsters and scary stuff, not sexuality and politics and going dressed in your every day soccer outfit. 

Interesting too that you're exactly the opposite of my father (who intrinsically didn't like Halloween because he didn't like all these kids begging at the door as if they were paupers). He always said that kids wearing scary as opposed to cutesy costumes got less candy from him.

 
That makes zero sense to me. Sounds like he was  a bit of a sourpuss, no offense. Part of the fun of being a kid is going trick-or-treating. It's once a year. It's not like the kids are staking you through a parking lot asking for money for god's sake. I don't see the logic in giving kids dressed appropriately for the occasion less candy than those who are wearing things not appropriate for the holiday. 

 

I'm in the middle someplace. I'm an eager celebrant when it comes to sexy witches and vampires, ghosts, scarecrows, jack-o-lanterns, black cats, bats, rats, owls, crows, spiders, chocolate bars, bubble gum, Tootsie Roll Pops and potato chips. I've even grown accustomed to the mothers accompanying their kids. So much the better to make lewd and suggestive comments about how we can celebrate further once they pack the kids off to bed! I mean what's not to like?

 
You're saying you're hitting on mothers sexually on Halloween and in front of their children? Did I miss something or misunderstand you? I sure hope so, because what you just said makes you sound like you have some serious mental issues and a total lack of morals.

[Hepcat]

Halloween (as I've lived it growing up) is all about monsters and horror. At least that's how we celebrate it in the USA since I was a kid.

...I'm celebrating Halloween as it's been celebrated in America all my life.

And yes, I am talking about Halloween in the 20th century as we've celebrated it in America.

How old are you then? Because if you grew up in the United States, homemade hobo and cowboy costumes as well as the playful Halco, Ben Cooper and Collegeville costumes should have been part of your Halloween experience from the start unless you're below the age of thirty or so.

Go to these threads for commentary on Halloween in the "old" days:

http://www.universalmonsterarmy.com/forum/index.php?topic=29085.msg479181#msg479181

http://www.universalmonsterarmy.com/forum/index.php?topic=599.0

I'm far from a prude, but come on! Can't people have fun without sexualizing something?

That sounds exactly like my thoughts about drinking "Can't people have fun without drinking?" But guess what? Though you deny being a prude, I don't deny being a teetotaller.

I for one am sick and tired of people trying to sexualize everything from shaving cream ads to comic books to every holiday there is. As much as I enjoy seeing a hot girl in a sexy vampire costume, it's just inappropriate. I'm far from a prude, but come on! Can't people have fun without sexualizing something? It tells me there's some sort of mental issue with people needing to mix sex into everything. That's just not normal.

Actually you sound exactly like a prude! For your information sex is a perfectly normal and natural part of life. People who think it isn't are the ones with the "mental" issues (based on religion I suspect).

Show me a Universal movie where the women are dressed in bikinis with nipples showing and overt sexuality. Yes, Hammer had well endowed women. But not the sort of sexualization that goes on today. People RUIN holidays by making it about their insane political hang ups and sexual depravity.

Sorry. If you see "depravity" in overtly sexual women "dressed in bikinis with nipples showing" and not simply mild titillation, you are very certainly a prude.
   

That makes zero sense to me. Sounds like he was  a bit of a sourpuss, no offense.

Sourpuss? No, he was simply fresh-off-the-boat and some parts of Canadian culture were a bit strange to him.

You're saying you're hitting on mothers sexually on Halloween and in front of their children? Did I miss something or misunderstand you? I sure hope so, because what you just said makes you sound like you have some serious mental issues and a total lack of morals.

Oh for Christ's sake lighten up!



If you have no sense of humour, if you can't recognize tongue-in-cheek remarks, once again you're the one with serious mental issues.

And don't come here preaching about proper sexual morality. If you have major hang-ups regarding normal everyday sexual expression, I will most assuredly give you short thrift and remind you that politics, religion and personal standards of morality are strictly off-limits on this board.

[Barlow]

Sigh. I try to add some fun to the season, and what happens? Someone has to pick a fight. So be it. 

How old are you then? Because if you grew up in the United States, homemade hobo and cowboy costumes as well as the playful Halco, Ben Cooper and Collegeville costumes should have been part of your Halloween experience from the start unless you're below the age of thirty or so.

Yeah I remember cowboys and indians and astronauts and whatnot. I think you're the one taking this post far too seriously. But even as a child in the late 60's, most of the kids I knew went as monsters. Some, when very, very young, went as things other than monsters. When I was 4 I believe I went as an astronaut. But after that it was all monsters, as it was for most kids older than that. We always had tons of vampires and witches and so on.

Go to these threads for commentary on Halloween in the "old" days:

And I have seen plenty of pictures and films of vintage Halloweens where people wore home made costumes and a vast majority were monsters. My parents talked about how they would use bedsheets to go as ghosts, and how they would make witch costumes and even vampires (using pancake flour for makeup).

That sounds exactly like my thoughts about drinking "Can't people have fun without drinking?" But guess what? Though you deny being a prude, I don't deny being a teetotaller.

I don't "deny" being a prude. It's simply a fact that I'm not. I just happen to have a little class and couth and don't appreciate the rampant sexuality that pervades our society. I'm not a teetotaller myself, though I rarely ever drink. Maybe some champagne on New Year's Eve. Not for any reason other than I just don't care for the taste.

Actually you sound exactly like a prude! For your information sex is a perfectly normal and natural part of life. People who think it isn't are the ones with the "mental" issues (based on religion I suspect).

Agreed. And note the salient word  - "part" - of life. It's a part of life. It's not meant to seep into every aspect of your life like an infection. Sex has its place. Porn has its place. And no, I'm not religious either, so that doesn't apply. It's just that a well-adjusted person has no need to inject any particular "part" of life into every other aspect of it. That borders on monomania. Like the weirdos who draw comic book characters with breasts that look like they belong on dinosaur sized women. Some artists focus on that compulsively, and I find it disturbing. It offends me when people try to "sell" me things by trying to titillate and entice me like I'm an animal who can't control his hormones. Look, that chick may be hot as hell, but if a company thinks I'm buying their product simply because they have a hot babe hawking it, they are so mistaken. I'll enjoy watching the commercial though, thank you very much.

Sorry. If you see "depravity" in overtly sexual women "dressed in bikinis with nipples showing" and not simply mild titillation, you are very certainly a prude.

I see depravity when people focus on sexuality where it doesn't belong, like in early grade school classrooms, or injected into comic books or Halloween. Mild titillation is fine, as is outright hardcore porn. But it has its place, and that place is not in Halloween costumes. If I want titillation, I'l read Playboy. It has no business in comics like The Avengers or Justice League. And there is no need for it in Halloween costumes. I celebrate Halloween for the chills and scares and suspense, not to get horny or turned on. There are better ways to achieve those goals. 

Sourpuss? No, he was simply fresh-off-the-boat and some parts of Canadian culture were a bit strange to him.

Sounds sour to me. And the whole idea of giving kids who wear funny masks over kids who wear horror masks on a holiday devoted to scares and chills and horror frankly puzzles me.


[/size]

Oh for Christ's sake lighten up! If you have no sense of humour, if you can't recognize tongue-in-cheek remarks, once again you're the one with serious mental issues.

Who's to know when someone is kidding on an internet forum? Sarcasm often doesn't translate well. I assumed you were serious about that because it fits with other things you said. Of course, that's why I asked you whether  I understood you correctly.

[/color]And don't come here preaching about proper sexual morality. If you have major hang-ups regarding normal everyday sexual expression, I will most assuredly give you short thrift and remind you that politics, religion and personal standards of morality are strictly off-limits on this board.

Who's preaching? I simply explained that I do not enjoy seeing rampant sexuality and the insanity of politics injected into an otherwise amazingly fun holiday. Who wants their good times ruined by contamination with things that have no business being there?

[Barlow]

Interestingly, I clicked on the topic below this one I started and look at what we see...


http://www.universalmonsterarmy.com/forum/index.php?topic=599.0


Pretty much exclusively monsters, aside from a couple of superheroes. No sexy maids, no politicians, etc. 

[Hepcat]

Sigh. I try to add some fun to the season, and what happens? Someone has to pick a fight. So be it. 

Not so. My first reply to your post was polite, logical, nicely illustrated and had a touch of humour. You then made some very strong and confrontational statements in response:

What the hell does sex have to do with Halloween? I for one am sick and tired of people trying to sexualize everything from shaving cream ads to comic books to every holiday there is. As much as I enjoy seeing a hot girl in a sexy vampire costume, it's just inappropriate. I'm far from a prude, but come on! Can't people have fun without sexualizing something? It tells me there's some sort of mental issue with people needing to mix sex into everything. That's just not normal.

Show me a Universal movie where the women are dressed in bikinis with nipples showing and overt sexuality. Yes, Hammer had well endowed women. But not the sort of sexualization that goes on today. People RUIN holidays by making it about their insane political hang ups and sexual depravity. 
 
Yeah, it's not really what I think of as Halloween. Still, the slasher flicks like Halloween or Nightmare on Elm Street count as horror, so I'd give a little more credit to someone going as a dismembered corpse than to someone dressing up inappropriately as a ... sexy maid. Those people are missing the point of the holiday. 

You're saying you're hitting on mothers sexually on Halloween and in front of their children? Did I miss something or misunderstand you? I sure hope so, because what you just said makes you sound like you have some serious mental issues and a total lack of morals.

You argue that Halloween is strictly about horror and that sex has nothing to do with Halloween! But there's always been a strong sexual element in witches' celebrations and the vampire women from Gothic horror.

You conflated bikinis and nipples in the same statement with "depravity"!

And to you morality seems to be about nothing but society's sexual mores! Yet every society has its own sexual mores meaning that these are not universal. Therefore sexual mores don't fit well at all into any universal system of Ethics (on which I incidentally took a course in my second year at college).

And I for one completely fail to understand why a certain segment of society finds depictions of gruesome violence and dismembered corpses acceptable for children while depictions of sexy women are not. Violence permissible, sex not. That to me is compelling evidence of a "sick" culture.

9. Sexualized Costumes - You come as a sexy French maid ... all you're getting from me is a shot of pepper spray and a boot to your backside to get you off my steps!

All I can say is that I'd love to see Madeline Smith on my doorstep in one of her domestic servant outfits from a Hammer Productions flick:



I'd empty out my entire tray of chocolate bars, bubble gum and chips into her treat bag!

[Hepcat]

Interestingly, I clicked on the topic below this one I started and look at what we see...


http://www.universalmonsterarmy.com/forum/index.php?topic=599.0


Pretty much exclusively monsters, aside from a couple of superheroes. No sexy maids, no politicians, etc. 

Page four has some noteworthy exceptions.

Moreover UMA members as kids weren't a representative cross-sample of the population. They were much more horror/monster oriented in general than the average kid. Otherwise they wouldn't be here on this forum today.

[Monsters For Sale]

I did all my trick-or-treating in the 1950's.

The majority of the costumes in my end of town were home made and pieced together from bits of old clothes.  MANY of the kids dressed up as occupations they hoped they would have some day.  Or what they thought people from other countries/cultures would wear.  Part of the fun of Halloween was having the candy dispensers guess what you were supposed to be.

There were always Gypsies, Hobos, Doctors, people who wore uniforms to work, Disney characters, etc. along with the witches, skeletons and ghosts.

In the Star Wars years how many Darth Vaders came to your door?

It goes in cycles.  For a few years in the late 90's every 5th kid wore a black rob and a Scream mask - boring.  With the rise of living dead mania too many kids wear shredded clothes and paint their faces grey - boring.

Vader and Scream always seemed like lazy cheats to me.  Put on a black robe and pick a mask.  Too easy and unoriginal.


If EVERY fourth kid dressed as one of the same few notable Universal monsters it would be equally boring - at least to me.  I vote for as much diversity as the public's imagination can provide - and ORIGINALITY first, please.


And, yes I want to see the Classic Universal Monsters better represented - especially if the costume is home-made.

[Barlow]

Hepcat wrote:

You argue that Halloween is strictly about horror and that sex has nothing to do with Halloween! But there's always been a strong sexual element in witches' celebrations and the vampire women from Gothic horror.
You conflated bikinis and nipples in the same statement with "depravity"!

And to you morality seems to be about nothing but society's sexual mores! Yet every society has its own sexual mores meaning that these are not universal. Therefore sexual mores don't fit well at all into any universal system of Ethics (on which I incidentally took a course in my second year at college).

Again, I keep trying to get this point across - I am NOT celebrating Samhain or some ancient pagan religion that deals with sex. I'm celebrating modern Halloween. Sure, there are certain aspects of the older traditions that we retain for Halloween - the idea of the dead walking the earth, wearing masks, jack-o-lanterns, etc. But we don't prance around a bonfire in the nude or sacrifice animals or things like that (or at least I hope no one still does that!). So there is a huge difference. I'm not trying to be faithful to Samhain, I'm being faithful to Halloween as we practiced it in the 20th century, the way I grew up with it.

To me, sexual mores have nothing to do with Halloween because sex isn't a part of Halloween.

And I for one completely fail to understand why a certain segment of society finds depictions of gruesome violence and dismembered corpses acceptable for children while depictions of sexy women are not. Violence permissible, sex not. That to me is compelling evidence of a "sick" culture.

I'd agree. Kids watching monster movies is one thing. Kids watching hyper-violent movies and games aren't.

All I can say is that I'd love to see Madeline Smith on my doorstep in one of her domestic servant outfits from a Hammer Productions flick:

I'd be ok with that! 
But again, I don't appreciate sex and politics intruding into a holiday like Halloween. Especially because those topics have become like a virus that has taken over the holiday.

I'd empty out my entire tray of chocolate bars, bubble gum and chips into her treat bag!

I'd empty something else, but this is a PG site! 

[Hepcat]

I did all my trick-or-treating in the 1950's.

The majority of the costumes in my end of town were home made and pieced together from bits of old clothes.  MANY of the kids dressed up as occupations they hoped they would have some day.  Or what they thought people from other countries/cultures would wear.  Part of the fun of Halloween was having the candy dispensers guess what you were supposed to be.

There were always Gypsies, Hobos, Doctors, people who wore uniforms to work, Disney characters, etc. along with the witches, skeletons and ghosts.

In the Star Wars years how many Darth Vaders came to your door?

It goes in cycles.  For a few years in the late 90's every 5th kid wore a black rob and a Scream mask - boring.  With the rise of living dead mania too many kids wear shredded clothes and paint their faces grey - boring.

Vader and Scream always seemed like lazy cheats to me.  Put on a black robe and pick a mask.  Too easy and unoriginal.

If EVERY fourth kid dressed as one of the same few notable Universal monsters it would be equally boring - at least to me.  I vote for as much diversity as the public's imagination can provide - and ORIGINALITY first, please.

And, yes I want to see the Classic Universal Monsters better represented - especially if the costume is home-made.

I agree! I've seen a whole gamut of changes in Halloween costumes since the late 1950's as they've evolved slowly and irregularly over time in response to changes in popular culture. Many of the most fashionable characters in any given year I've not been able to recognize since they were based on TV programs I didn't watch and of which I probably wasn't even aware. As a result I have a laissez-faire attitude toward kids' Halloween costumes. Yes, originality is great but I must admit that I'm very much impressed by some of the popular offerings in the Rubie's catalogue these days:

















They're certainly far more realistic and sophisticated than any kids' costumes that were available in my trick or treating days!

[Hepcat]

Sure, there are certain aspects of the older traditions that we retain for Halloween - the idea of the dead walking the earth, wearing masks, jack-o-lanterns, etc. But we don't prance around a bonfire in the nude....

Me I'm all in favour of bringing back that custom, especially for some people: