Elwar Button Mystery

[Monster Bob]

I remember the small ones on display. I saw them in 1c machines with that header-for sure. One time in the middle of Florida at a tourist stop- about 1967 I'd say. Once near Lacaster, Pa., once in Ohio- both about 1968 or so. Then again in Florida, probably 1971-ish.  The buttons would be mixed in with 1c gumballs, but you'd have to spend a quarter to get a button- there were never many buttoms in the machine, compared to the gumballs.



I know in about 1982 or so I bought hundreds of these buttons (small) and probably 30 header cards, all old 1960s stock. There was a big find of gumball stuff, and I bought anything Monster they had. I used to sell sets at Toy Shows and eventually Toy Shop.

[Richard]

Thanks, Bob, for your knowledge on this!

I think I will try to "put this to bed" until someone comes up with additional information we haven't discussed yet.

Gackenstein, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE post a pic of your variation Phantom button, front and back, so we can compare with Ray's. THANKS!

OK, here is what I believe based on what I know, have seen, and have been told...

I THINK the most likely scenario is this one-
Elwar ran into some kind of problem with the printer/supplier of the 1st run (money/deadline dispute, warehouse fire, bumbled with omitting info on the curl dispute, etc.) and the first version materials (orig art, separations & plates, etc.) were no longer available - but by then, there were orders to fill already based on the style of the 1st run.  So Elwar commissioned the illustrations to be recreated - which definitely would explain why the two illustrations are SO similar - orders had already been placed based on that 1st run style/artwork, and so they proceeded to manufacture/fill the new orders with the 2nd version buttons.

It's the only scenario where all of the circumstances and clues make sense.

What I do not believe is they are fan made; do not believe Elwar went to the expense just to make them a little more detailed for kids; and definitely do not believe the two versions have ANYTHING to do with the Lugosi vs Universal lawsuit. 

I'm done with this, for now.
Thanks, all, for your imput!
Best,
Richard

[Mike Scott]

OK, here is what I believe based on what I know, have seen, and have been told...

Works for me!

[Jim Bertges]

Here's another shot of Forry wearing those buttons. It's scanned from the new issue of Rue Morgue. The "unknown" Lugosi button says Member at the top, but I can't make out the wording at the bottom. However, I don't think it's from the Count Dracula Society.

[The Phantom Creep]

It is difficult to tell... could be MEMBER  BELA LUGOSI FANCLUB ??

[Monster Bob]

Can anyone produce an ad when the 'common' buttons were first advertised in FM? I don't know that I remember them in the magazine's ads pre 1970 or so...  I know they have always been said to be mid-1960s...but maybe they are a bit later than thought?



What I'd be interested in seeing is the Frankenstein #1 button!

The #1 & #2 Mummy-Wolf-Creature buttons look stolen right off of FAMOUS MONSTERS SPEAK! but differ slightly from each other.

The #1 Dracula w/ horns more resembles the 6 ft Dracula poster. Perhaps the horns on the poster-then the button- were put in place to change the image enough to cool young Lugosi off? Maybe his Universal litigation had already started? (It was always said that it was the Paint By Numbers that set Junior off)  Why else would you "horn" Dracula, making him look like THE MAD MAGICIAN, other than to change the image? And why alter just Dracula? The Lugosi suit would explain it, I guess....



But it's the Frankenstein I'd like to see...is the Frank art on button #1 like the 'common' button, or more like the Glenn Strange image that is used on FAMOUS MONSTERS  SPEAK! ...? The Frank art used on the 'common' button is toned down from the record- not nearly as dramatic.

[Mike Scott]

Here's another shot of Forry wearing those buttons.

Oh man! Look at all those mint condition FM paperbacks! D-rool, d-rool!

[Richard]

The #1 & #2 Mummy-Wolf-Creature buttons look stolen right off of FAMOUS MONSTERS SPEAK! but differ slightly from each other.

The #1 Dracula w/ horns more resembles the 6 ft Dracula poster. Perhaps the horns on the poster-then the button- were put in place to change the image enough to cool young Lugosi off? Maybe his Universal litigation had already started? (It was always said that it was the Paint By Numbers that set Junior off)  Why else would you "horn" Dracula, making him look like THE MAD MAGICIAN, other than to change the image? And why alter just Dracula? The Lugosi suit would explain it, I guess....

I agree with your sources, Bob. I think Frankenstein variation will, indeed, be the artwork off of the Famous Monsters Speak LP.

I posted the info, below, earlier in this thread but FORGOT to mention the variation along with the small buttons.


Elwar FRANKENSTEIN:
Small  and large variation 7/8 inch pinback/Header card - art based on the Famous Monsters Speak LP released in 1963
Large 3 1/2 inch button - art based on the Famous Monsters 1965 Yearbook, released in 1964

Elwar DRACULA:
Small and large variation 7/8 inch pinback/Header card - art based on Lowell Toy Mfg. Corp. 6 foot poster artwork (fangs, pointed nails, etc.) released in 1963
Large 3 1/2 inch button - same as above

Elwar WOLFMAN, CREATURE & MUMMY:
Small and large variation 7/8 inch pinbacks/Header card - art based on the Famous Monsters Speak LP released in 1963
Large 3 1/2 inch buttons - same as above

Elwar PHANTOM:
Small and large variation 7/8 inch pinback/Header card - only possible item I could find is Famous Monsters #3, which came out in 1959
Large 3 1/2 inch button - same as above

[Richard]

THANK YOU, Jim, for that great picture of FJA wearing the buttons!!!

[Mike Scott]

Can anyone produce an ad when the 'common' buttons were first advertised in FM?

Oy! You mean look through every issue till you find the first one with an ad?  

...is the Frank art on button #1 like the 'common' button, or more like the Glenn Strange image that is used on FAMOUS MONSTERS  SPEAK! ...?

Since the other ones we've seen are the same as the small buttons/card, I would assume the 1st large Frank would be, too.

[Mike Scott]

For easy reference.

[Richard]

Can anyone produce an ad when the 'common' buttons were first advertised in FM? I don't know that I remember them in the magazine's ads pre 1970 or so...  I know they have always been said to be mid-1960s...but maybe they are a bit later than thought?

Bob, I thought I was done with this thing but....

You are correct~
I can't think of seeing an ad for the large Elwars before 1970. I always assumed (this is a REALLY BAD thing to do) that the large Elwar buttons were 60s products BECAUSE FJA WAS WEARING THEM IN 1965. But they WERE NOT the INFO-LABELED Universal/Elwar buttons we mostly have. Perhaps the Elwar labeled variations aren't 60s products but products of the 70s (Mike, you'll have to change the gallery!  ) I remember buying one in a store but don't remember when (unlike the small Wolf Man Elwar I got). ANYONE remember getting the large Elwar monster buttons in the 1960s?

Y'know, WHAT IF, the uncommon variations ARE NOT Elwar buttons. Famous Monsters was all over that Famous Monsters Speak record LP. Forry is wearing large buttons that take their artwork right off that record LP. Perhaps some other company made these large variations ...for Famous Monsters?...for Forry? ...for a very limited market? ...for samples? ...for ?

I'm still really bothered why there is no info on these large variations.

MAYBE they ARE NOT Elwar buttons. But, then who made them and why?

These 1st issue large buttons, not originating at Elwar Ltd., actually fits this mystery quite well.

Now, here is where the Lugosi vs Universal deal could come into play. I still HATE the Lugosi Jr. lawsuit as changing anything that was already in the marketplace. That didn't happen and makes no sense. Bob, you stated that the Paint-By-Number set set Lugosi Jr. to action. I've always heard it was the Aurora model that did it. But neither of those items were bothered at all in the marketplace. They survived without ANY changes (unlike the Aurora "Anthony Quinn" Hunchback).
I didn't believe the Lugosi lawsuit had any effect at changing button designs before and still don't. But stopping the sale of any more product (1st variation buttons), maybe. Especially if we are now talking about an entirely different company producing them. Or, how about Universal stopping them because said company has no license (no info on the curl).

So now Elwar comes along and ...ahem...'borrows' the artwork off these large buttons and sets to work making small buttons and header cards with it. Then, much, much, much later down the road (when artwork is long gone), Elwar decides to make large versions (with copyright info on them) ~VERY late 60s or early 70s.

How does any of this sound?

I still wish to see examples of ANY NON-LABLED large variations that UMA members may have, PLEASE!!!!
Thank you!!!! 

Best,
Richard

[Richard]

Oy! You mean look through every issue till you find the first one with an ad?  

Mike, we have to do that cross-indexed monster magazine ad project so we can find stuff quick! 

[Mike Scott]

Mike, we have to do that cross-indexed monster magazine ad project so we can find stuff quick! 

Yeh, right! I think the FM Chron book only mentions the ads on the back covers. Can't remember if the CD Rom index indexes ads, but I don't think so.

[Monster Bob]

I'm thinking maybe this whole thing is simpler than we think.

I'm also thinking maybe all these buttons were made by Warren Publishing, later using the name "Elwar", which is probably somebody's cat.

Warren made a set of Munsters buttons in 1965, and the art, style, and size strongly resembles these Elwar Monster buttons, but they are clearly marked WARREN PUBLISHING CO. on the rim. So Warren makes some buttons...they did that all along for their publications, too (Eerie buttons, etc.) They were probably even made at the same printer's that produced Famous Monsters. And we know for sure they made a "run" of monster buttons in '65, as documented in the FJA photo.

Borrowing art from the 6ft Dracula poster for the first Dracula button (also used on a 60s Magic Set I have somewhere) which was already out for a couple of years at that point, and had the altered horned-Lugosi art. The Aurora Dracula kit had been out since 1962 and the Paint Set since 1963, so either of those could have been the catalyst for the Lugosi vs. Universal suit, and just one or two years later it is not a stretch to believe that Lowell added some horns and pointy fingernails to their Dracula poster art, in order to possibly sidestep trouble that was already brewing.   



Soooooooo.......my vote is that all of this "Famous Monsters" stuff...the FMS record, the different size buttons, the paperbacks, etc., were all produced by...yes...FAMOUS MONSTERS OF FILMLAND.

It seems all of these magical old businesses were not the mega-operations we picture in our minds- these places are usually run by 3 or 4 guys...Don Post included!