Glenn Strange Candy bucket Question

[jimm]

Don't think it's about what the next generation does with our stuff... It's about enjoying it in our time...

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[ravenloft]

Boy, that is one epic rant about a plastic Halloween bucket. The funny thing about all this Frankenstein angst is that, as collectibles go, that bucket ain't even that expensive. Sure, it's more money than I can pull out of my pocket on most days, but it's nothing compared to a lot of other items in the monster collecting hobby, let alone the bigger world of pop culture memorabilia. Most of my paychecks are less than the top-dollar price for this bucket. But I've got one. If you really want one, you can sacrifice a paycheck and get one, too. Buck up. Do without some things for a month. Sell something. Make some sacrifices. Or go into the field and hunt through garage sales, estate sales, antique shops, thrift stores, etc. Go to toy shows. I'm constantly amazed at the great deals my friends find at shows, almost on a weekly basis. No one is entitled to a Frankenstein bucket. And as I said, as holy grails go, this one is pretty obtainable. It's only on ebay every other week. I wish my grails were as easy to fulfill as this. How many "I can't get a bucket" posts does one forum need?

It never was about if I could or couldn't get a bucket, I never even said i couldn't get one in my post. Sure I could trot on down to the pawn shop or skimp and save on whatever for a few months to get one with my measly paycheck. I do wish that I could get one but probably won't ever own one because it really just isn't worth hundreds of dollars. We all love monsters (especially the Glenn Strange Frankenstein for me) that is why we are here on this forum, and I think this product was especially well done. I think it looks very cool and appreciate the old style but i see it for what it really is: an old Halloween candy bucket no matter how cool or nifty we think it is.

It is all about how some think a plastic bucket could possibly be worth 500 dollars or more, which frankly it isn't (pun intended.) The few collectors who actually think that it is are going to be dead and buried in a decade or two, three at most with their buckets up on the auction block going for a fraction of what they paid (unless they lucked into one by chance probably before the advent of online auctions that drove the prices up ridiculously usually between a handful of reckless collector buyers at most.)
The new monster generation will never get to own or appreciate cool items like this because of the overpriced current "value" and because they have no sentimental link to them to want to spend more than they are really worth. The skull sticks made by the same company at the same time or old general Halloween blow mold items more accurately represent their current value as far as vintage plastic items go in my opinion. Still a much much greater increase in value versus original cost than inflation.
Sure people will always collect vintage stuff at elevated prices due to perceived rarity, but as soon as the generation that originally owned them is gone, the prices will not reflect a "gotta have this link to my childhood at any cost" sentimentality by a few well off collectors who can afford to blow some cash but a more reasoned appraisal of it's actual intrinsic worth, condition and relative rarity.

This "buck up," "pony up the dough" or "take a swing at bat" mentality is just an economic pissing contest between those with more disposable income burning a hole in their pockets and those who don't have savings built up to prudently or realistically afford it or the willingness to blow a paycheck on an absolute non-necessity; or it could possibly reflect a generational gap, plenty of young adults wouldn't hesitate to blow that much on the latest greatest video game console rather than a trick or treat bucket.

You can afford to collect one? Whoop-tee-do. You have all ten they ever made of whatever rare item? good for you too. You own the only one known in existence? Who cares. Rather let's print a million of them and let new fans delight in owning something cool. Monster fans are dying out and not replenishing their numbers. In 40 years they won't be talking Glenn Strange or Bela Lugosi when they are looking at Frankenstein or Dracula collectibles, they will be talking about Monster High and Hotel Transylvania toys because Universal and the current likeness rights holders for these great old movies won't do anything with them. That is sad. Monster collecting is slowing dying. The "they haven't because there is no profit in it, or they woulda done it by now" argument is dead wrong too, people love and buy generic Frankenstein stuff all the time they just can't get a Karloff likeness or a Strange Bucket anymore because no one is willing to make a cheap Halloween item for the masses like that anymore, because likeness rights should demand high end collector's pricing and limited runs right? WRONG. Several million Spiderman and Darth Vader candy buckets sold yearly prove otherwise. If Universal and whoever pays for the licensing would actually get it done it would sell. UM lunchboxes would fly off comic store shelves not just to dedicated monster collectors but just about everyone else who enjoys Halloween, old movies or the characters themselves if they were affordable priced from the get go. There is a reason why Frankenstein masks still do well almost 85 years after the movie came out.

Maybe if you were a billionaire you wouldn't hesitate to pay a cool million for a prime condition Strange bucket, but that certainly does not make them then suddenly worth a million, any more than the 500 bucks or more a dozen or less buckets have gone for just because a few are willing to pull that trigger. Those price reflects a few avariced crazed collectors/sellers artificially driving up the price online rather than what they could realistically fetch at fair market value. Just like Mortica and gomez auctioning their own finger trap for vast sums of money, no one else was going to drop in a bid once it got out of hand.
Old Batman comics go up and up in value because there are constant new fans being born every day that enjoy a stream of new Batman products, cartoons, films, and merch that got them to be Batman fans in the first place and when they reach adulthood maybe just maybe they want a old  thin paper book that originally sold for 10 cents that was printed before they were ever born and will pay a couple grand just for kicks because it is the first appearance of their favorite character, or maybe there are lots more just as avid fans who just buy the reprint because they wanted to read it/own that story at an affordable realistic non collector price.

It is just a plastic candy bucket, not an I-phone or laptop with all the bells and whistles. Seems to me the folks who say these are worth a fortune are the same ones who can agree on the latest or vintage paint splatter going for millions just because a big artist name is on the corner, better yet if he/she is dead and can't make any more. Just another chalice in your dragon's hoard that you couldn't really care about until someone else wants it for much cheaper than you paid.

By all accounts this isn't an ultra rare item and quite a few are safely staring out from collector's shelves or carefully packed away. Do you really think someone from the next generation will ever pay 3500 or more for a plastic Haunted hulk toy? even monster loving kids and their kids will realize it is just a piece of plastic eventually.
Who cares if there are rarer items that go for way more in the collector world? I am not a serious collector or a professional just someone who wants to enjoy something. My "rant" as you call It and your rebuttal is not the same as "pony up the dough for a Ferrari if you want one son," it is why in the world does a small cheaply made piece of plastic such as Mr. Bones coffin candy sometimes fetch 20 bucks at auction because of nostalgia alone when they should be repopping those things by the thousands so I can pass them out to the kiddies at Halloween and more than just the elite few who grew up with them or have money to waste can still enjoy them.

What I find truly funny is some of your hypocritical attitudes crying "No, don't repop the Strange bucket" but...if it is a Frank nodder Chinese cheap repop of an original item currently "worth" far more then go right ahead:

The Frankenstein looks like a complete resculpt.  Weird.

Like '59 Cadillacs, the Asians know what is cool, and decided to recreate one if the true classics of 1960s Monsterdom.

That item could and apparently did actually fool a collector. I am not asking for the Glen Strange bucket repops to be so good they could fool a collector, just I wish to own one and sadly the originals are ridiculously priced. I really wouldn't care if they were able to fool us and destroyed the current perceived vintage value. I would be delighted to finally own one at a reasonable price.

Thanks for the link I was unaware of the already long blazing argument over this.

Not this again. We already had this discussion the last time a Frankenstein bucket was auctioned off on Ebay:
http://www.universalmonsterarmy.com/forum/index.php?topic=28026.60
Yes, you're right about the demographics. The premise behind thinking of these items as an investment is shaky indeed. But your point is also entirely irrelevant. You see I buy these items for me, for my own personal satisfaction, for the sentimental value I myself derive. I pay no more for a collectible than it's worth to me. I neither buy these items as an "investment", nor am I buying them for anyone else. So if their resale value plummets after I'm gone, it won't matter. Because I'll be dead!

But that is precisely my point, I would like to own it for just for me, not to resell or to raise the value of my collection but to simply enjoy it, I never plan on selling any of my collection either it is for me to enjoy period. So why should we now have to pay several hundred bucks for one because a few collectors decided they could blow that much in a convenient online auction war? It is just a piece of plastic. Repop that thing so other monster fans can enjoy it just like the Aurora models or the Don Post masks and new "monster kid" fans can feel it in their tiny hands with satisfaction when they ring the doorbell come Halloween, and let those who feel otherwise fill up their now not nearly worth as much vintage buckets with tears. If you truly just want it for your own enjoyment then you would never care if there are millions or just a few in existence as long as you got yours.


I love the James Bama Strange Frankenstein painting and if I had money to blow I would buy the original for whatever that thing is worth these days, why not? but I know that realistically I can't afford it in the real world and don't really need it either as much as I would love to own it, so I will make do with a print (repop) or a book with a photo in it (repop) or even a cereal poster at a much more reasonable price and don't begrudge the guy would couldn't even afford those and just has a Bama Frankenstein screensaver as the only way they can enjoy that image. I hope someone passes those prints out as monster prizes at some Halloween contest someday or proudly displays it with their decorations even though it will get ruined by tape and sun so more than a few crusty old collectors can actually enjoy the Frankenstein goodness in that image, like every kid that passes by with a lame candy bucket instead of a much cooler Strange Franky one.
I am not afraid to buy repop Beistle paper decorations either because I want to enjoy those Halloween images and style, I just don't think vintage cardpaper is worth hundreds of dollars no matter how much collectors are willing to pay for it.

It is just a plastic candy bucket guys, it really isn't worth 500 bucks to ANYONE even if some are still willing to pay that for it.

[Hepcat]

Those price reflects a few avariced crazed collectors/sellers artificially driving up the price online rather than what they could realistically fetch at fair market value.

Excuse me but there is no other way to accurately determine "fair market value" than through the mutually agreed prices at which transactions occur, and If "avariced crazed collectors/sellers" happen to be on one side of the transaction, well so be it. A buck is a buck is a buck in anybody's hands. That's how markets are made.

You on the other hand somehow believe that prices can and even should be determined from some ivory tower, specifically yours. Have you never heard the expression that "The only appraisal worth even the cost of the paper on which it's printed is the one to which a certified cheque is attached?"

It is just a plastic candy bucket guys, it really isn't worth 500 bucks to ANYONE even if some are still willing to pay that for it.

Nonsense! If the bucket wasn't worth $500 to the people paying $500, they wouldn't be paying that much for it. What you're doing is assuming that your own utility preferences must be universally shared. Well they're not.

[Hepcat]

Don't think it's about what the next generation does with our stuff... It's about enjoying it in our time...

Precisely!

[ravenloft]

good thing this collectors pricing "no repops it would ruin the vintage value" mentality didn't include the films themselves or there would be 20 guys who could watch a coveted very expensive collector's only Frankenstein original copy on a old reel projector and the rest of the world would have never heard of any Universal's Frankenstein films outside of serious film students. But saner heads of course prevailed and you can get a copy of that vintage movie that came out 84 years ago for about the same price as a burger, in many retail stores today. There wouldn't be any monster fans or monster collectors alive today without "repops and re-airing" of old vintage stuff and a trickle current new UM merchandise with those likenesses, none of you were born in 1931.

[horrorhunter]

Nonsense! If the bucket wasn't worth $500 to the people paying $500, they wouldn't be paying that much for it. What you're doing is assuming that your own utility preferences must be universally shared. Well they're not.

Truth.

People pay it, so... it's worth it (and in some cases more like $600-$800). And, I'm one of the cheap bastards still waiting to find one for a bargain price (not holding my breath on that one  ).

Oh, and I'm in favor of cheap repops.. would love to have one. And, also cheap versions of all the UniMons and HammerMons candy buckets in the style of the Clinton Glenn Strange Candy Bucket. 

[jimm]

I enjoy alot of this stuff from afar.... Don't have to own it all, can't for plenty reasons. Glad my crew here likes to share.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[ravenloft]

Nonsense! If the bucket wasn't worth $500 to the people paying $500, they wouldn't be paying that much for it. What you're doing is assuming that your own utility preferences must be universally shared. Well they're not.

Nonsense?
Listen to yourself...
500 dollars for a candy bucket
500 dollars isn't worth 500 dollars to the people who pay that much, they can afford not to care apparently or are willing to at least blow it and risk the fallout with spouses and budgets if they can't afford it. It isn't about the money a few pay it is about the money anyone would pay. 31 interested people haven't dropped the 500 even though every one of them would dearly love to have it in the current buy it now...


I can see how your fire insurance claim argument went, "but it's vintage" "but there aren't that many left in good condition"
insurance agent: It's a plastic candy bucket.
"But it has a movie character likeness!" "But I think it is really cool and nostalgic!" "But it is important to me!"
insurance agent: It was made as a disposable non collectible item for kids on Halloween, there are plenty left in circulation if you really wanted one by your own admission, shall we say 75 bucks generously considering it's age?

[Hepcat]

Nonsense?
Listen to yourself...
500 dollars for a candy bucket

Yes, listen. I'm saying listen to the market That's where and how prices are determined.

You on the other hand are saying "Listen to me. I know better". Well you don't. The only opinions that count with respect to pricing are those of the market participants. As they say "Money talks. Bull.... walks."

500 dollars isn't worth 500 dollars to the people who pay that much, they can afford not to care apparently or are willing to at least blow it and risk the fallout with spouses and budgets if they can't afford it. It isn't about the money a few pay it is about the money anyone would pay.

No! You are very, very wrong. It's clear and obvious now that you've never taken even a first year Economics course. Prices are not set by average supply and demand. Prices are set at the margin, meaning by incremental supply and demand.

I can see how your fire insurance claim argument went, "but it's vintage" "but there aren't that many left in good condition"
insurance agent: It's a plastic candy bucket.
"But it has a movie character likeness!" "But I think it is really cool and nostalgic!" "But it is important to me!"
insurance agent: It was made as a disposable non collectible item for kids on Halloween, there are plenty left in circulation if you really wanted one by your own admission, shall we say 75 bucks generously considering it's age?

Irrelevant. It's the job of insurance adjusters to pay as little as they can get away with. If the insurance policy specifies replacement value, then the insurance company will if its feet are held to the fire in court have to pay replacement value as determined by the transactions in the open market at which you've been sneering.

[ravenloft]

well then, let's have everyone list what they actually bought theirs for and/or what they are willing to pay for one (apparently it is not 500 samolians as the current bin is still up)
put your money where your mouth is so to speak...

I personally might spend $200 but even that seems very much like grandiose exorbitance considering the current market value of  the Glen Strange speakers is 75 bucks according to the open market... at least that is what they are going for these days

[Hepcat]

well then, let's have everyone list what they actually bought theirs for and/or what they are willing to pay for one (apparently it is not 500 samolians as the current bin is still up)
put your money where your mouth is so to speak...

You're ignoring what I (and economics professors) say about prices being determined at the margin. What this means is that the next transaction will occur between the highest bidder and the lowest seller, or else it won't occur at all. That's how prices are set, not by the average but at the margin, i.e. the extreme. Think about it. Why would any buyer buy from anyone but the lowest seller, and why would anyone sell but to the highest buyer?

Like I say, read the Economics text.

[raycastile]

Ravenloft, I'm not going to pretend I read your second and very, very long, l o o o n g post. I read a few words, and then let my imagine fill in the rest.

On the subject of the $500 bucket that nobody has bought, I can tell you why I don't want it. The handle is wonky. It has a crack in it. If I were going to buy one, I'd want a mint handle. Also, I suspect the paint wear on the nose bothers some people. The third problem is that it is a Buy It Now auction. Bidders hate those, unless the price is cheap. If this bucket were offered in a real auction with a $1 opening bid and no reserve, it would stand a good chance of hitting $500. It might go for more or less. But the seller doesn't want to take a chance. Buyers know that and resent it. As a buyer, I feel like BIN items should be priced to sell. Otherwise, why list it? At least add a "make offer" so there is some room for give and take. It is part of the culture of the hobby. The high BIN is out of step with that culture, and you can see the results. A lot of what happens on ebay has more to do with psychology than math or empirical data.

[skully]

Wow, oh PLEASE, Not Again!!??  The way this particular subject  has "evolved" with this forum is quite interesting. But, honestly, enough is enough. Ravenloft, I really just can't figure you out, with your meaningless posts (in my opinion), on one hand you state just how "lowly" this "piece of cheap plastic" is to you, but, you then bring this piece back up (to where it should be) as to how great it is!!??  I really need to ask, just how old are you anyway? I only ask this, because you seem to have a very "dim" view on life. And, you're quite the "crybaby". Sure, the older generation will die out, but, my friend (not), remember this, young people die just as easily as older people. You mentioned in one of your "rants" about the collectability of Universal Monsters fading away, I beg to differ!! Then just what the heck are you doing here, anyway??  As I previously mentioned in one of my posts on this never-ending subject, I guess then if you had one for sale, you would let it go cheap, RIGHT??  WRONG!!  Sure, the item isn't really rare, BUT, it is extremely popular!! If you won't pay the price, well then, unless you're lucky, you won't own one, stop damning people who actually buy them at current market values! Who the heck do you think you are, anyway??  To use one of your Very Stupid phrases, Whoop-tee-doo to you too, PAL!!!

[Anton Phibes]

Just because something sells for a high price doesnt necessarily mean the person is happy paying that price for it, and in most cases can/will resist. I love the Remco Universal Monsters 8 inch figures. Never in a million years will I pay what the price for MIB examples fetch. So--I admire from afar.


But  there are exceptions based on one's nostalgia or love for a product. I really wanted a few things I have recently acquired for my collection. I overpaid waaaay too much for them. I knew that when I bought them--- that they were madly overpriced. But a complete mint set was just sitting there. The nostaliga factor kicked it, and I snagged them before I even thought it out.

Ultimately the nostalgia factor and one's income determines what something is "worth" to them. To paraphrase Lance Shroeder regarding Vincent price's character from House on Haunted Hill: "$10,000.00 is no more to him than a nickel is to us". Disposable income is a factor. Once someone with a lot of it drops it on a favorite sought after item....It kind of sets the asking price others will expect to receive.

But just because someone on ebay paid $1,600.00 for a DD Lee Dracula mego doesnt mean it will get that every time. As has been proven in auctions that have occurred since. Supply, demand, the economic scare of the day, the weather, whatever.....things go up. Things go down. If I had the disposable income in spades, who's to say what I might pay for something that's ridiculous in anothers eyes.

That being said: a cheaply made Lon Chaney Jr. accurate Wolfman Halloween bucket would top my immediate want list,lol.

[skully]

Anton, very true.  Many times I've "over-spent" on items that I really wanted, but I figured if I don't get it now, I may not see another for quite some time, this is where the true "collectability" factor really comes into play. You can associate this way of thinking with almost anything that people collect. Be it old classic cars, coins, stamps,antique furniture,toys, art, or anything that someone is passionate about. And, there is the "key" word here, being passionate about what one collects. It is the "passion" that keeps collecting alive. I, for one, enjoy collecting, I'll always be amazed at what other people are willing to pay for their passion,even myself.