Author Topic: Box o' Vinyl Recasts  (Read 24574 times)

hammerfan

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Re: Box o' Vinyl Recasts
« Reply #45 on: March 09, 2012, 09:27:56 AM »
Once again George, it comes down to credibilty and gravitas. It is hard to take someone ranting about recasting seriously when they are guilty of IP theft. By thier own admission.
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hammerfan

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Re: Box o' Vinyl Recasts
« Reply #46 on: March 09, 2012, 09:35:06 AM »
Does anyone here still go to Wonderfest??  There are certainly plenty of recasts for sale there. Yet I dont here anybody whinging about  it.
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MonsterBoy7

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Re: Box o' Vinyl Recasts
« Reply #47 on: March 09, 2012, 10:08:34 AM »
   Hello, I don't mean to beat a dead horse,but I did not see a reply to my questions? And after seeing you speak about Wonderfest and recasting I'm going to assume you are in the resin business?

So again I would like to know, has Hammerfan or HepKat ever produced an unlicensed kit or made recasts of existing kits?

I am undecided about my true feelings of this subject,so before I make my decision I would like to hear from both sides. I have read at length Mr. George's statements,now I would like to hear from HepKat & Hammerfan's answers to my questions.

thanks

hammerfan

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Re: Box o' Vinyl Recasts
« Reply #48 on: March 09, 2012, 10:30:09 AM »
I have done both. but i am not afraid to admit it. unlike some here who like to poke fingers, but wont talk about their past and in some cases present actions. I am not playing the angel here. I am simply stating that you cant say that recasting is wrong if you are guilty of ip theft
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hammerfan

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Re: Box o' Vinyl Recasts
« Reply #49 on: March 09, 2012, 10:35:36 AM »
let me rephrase that. You can say recasting is wrong, but it makes you out to be a hypocrite.
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fmofmpls

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Re: Box o' Vinyl Recasts
« Reply #50 on: March 09, 2012, 10:52:51 AM »
As far as unlicensed garage kit makers go--yes, we understand that they are typically not making a large number of these items, and any profit made from them is minimal.  Again, yes, they are legally violating  the copyright of whoever owns that property.  Certainly, there are a lot of properties, especially in horror and Sci-Fi that sit dormant for decades with the companies/license holders never doing anything with them.  The garage kit maker creates and manufactures a limited run (typically) of a character/film and does, in fact, violate copyright law.  Legally, it's wrong, especially if it's based on the likeness of an actor (as opposed to a rubber-suited monster or a spaceship), because the actor (or their estate) is left out of the loop also.  It's often hard to feel sorry for the studio not being shown any consideration, especially when they themselves shown little consideration to those that created these designs or characters for them.  WHen the show/movie/chacter is a current license, it's trickier.  If someone is doing a garage kit of Spider-Man, they are using a character that is currently in use and will be experiencing a resurgence when the new movie comes out.  However, unless there's a company out there selling a licensed model kit of Spider-Man, the garage kit will have little effect on the success of selling other Spider-Man merchandise.  The only one that loses is the corporation.  Whether one can live with that, is up to the individual. 

Let's look at the recaster.  They are violating everyone all the way down.  They're copying someone else's work, whether or not the original was licensed.  If it's an item that's currently still in production/available, they are directly competing with the originator.  They have shown no originality or creativity.  They are like the kids that copy test answers off of someone else's paper in school.  At this point, the recaster occupies the lowest level.  The problem is, they don't care, especially if it's a knock off from overseas. 

Well said Rob. You make some very good points in your well thought out post. The recaster, from my observations, doesn't care one way or another about licensed or unlicensed products. The recaster simply pours rubber over somebody else's product, expense, and/or idea. This is not only done without any concern or regard for unlicensed or licensed products, it is also done without any regard to the expenses paid by the original kit producer; expenses such as paying a sculptor and/or mold maker for the end product. It's theft no matter how you gift wrap it. And to continue to compare it to producing unlicensed merchandise is an attempt to deflect the issue. You can't put out a fire by pouring more flammable material on it. It's still a fire no matter how large it spreads.

« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 10:56:37 AM by fmofmpls »
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MonsterBoy7

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Re: Box o' Vinyl Recasts
« Reply #51 on: March 09, 2012, 10:56:11 AM »
Thank you Hammerfan for your reply,and of course your honesty.

If you have participated in both these actions then why are you so upset about the industry in itself? It seems that at one point or another you saw it as a viable thing to do and not look at it as stealing from an IP owner as you mentioned? Have you only done these things once or twice or have you done it more then a few? Does that include recasting and making unlicensed resin kits more then once?

I am just trying to understand everyone's point of view to grab a better understanding. I hope you do not think I am trying to be too nosey.

fmofmpls

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Re: Box o' Vinyl Recasts
« Reply #52 on: March 09, 2012, 11:05:23 AM »
[admin]I would respectfully ask everyone to please try and stick to the subject of this thread - recasting other individuals (or companies) model kits. I fully understand how this topic has diverged into the discussion of unlicensed vs licensed merchandise, but I feel this thread is being done a disservice when we try and discuss both topics under the same thread. I am fully open to exploring the controversy of unlicensed vs licensed merchandise in another thread. That way both topics will get the full attention they deserve. And as others here have already noted, they too will gladly discuss said subject matter at another thread dedicated to just that topic. Thank you.[/admin]
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fmofmpls

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Re: Box o' Vinyl Recasts
« Reply #53 on: March 09, 2012, 11:23:33 AM »
I've created a new thread dedicated to discussing unlicensed vs licensed products (including model kits).

Please try and discuss said topic at its respective thread.

That discussion can take place here - http://www.universalmonsterarmy.com/forum/index.php?topic=17360.new#new
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hammerfan

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Re: Box o' Vinyl Recasts
« Reply #54 on: March 09, 2012, 11:26:46 AM »
Thank you Hammerfan for your reply,and of course your honesty.

If you have participated in both these actions then why are you so upset about the industry in itself? It seems that at one point or another you saw it as a viable thing to do and not look at it as stealing from an IP owner as you mentioned? Have you only done these things once or twice or have you done it more then a few? Does that include recasting and making unlicensed resin kits more then once?

I am just trying to understand everyone's point of view to grab a better understanding. I hope you do not think I am trying to be too nosey.
I am upset??  perhaps you misunderstood me monsterboy. Im only upset that someone is given a platform and then gets on their high horse about certain activities but they are guilty of other shady activities. in the courts(well not kangaroo courts) a person who testifies but has a record of  known crimes has little or no credibility. Trying to steer away from that doesnt change that fact. People do whatever they will do Im not the one making a big deal of this
Have the Lambs stopped screaming Clarice?....Dr. Lector

hammerfan

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Re: Box o' Vinyl Recasts
« Reply #55 on: March 09, 2012, 11:29:51 AM »
Terry can modify this thread or close it. its his show. but it seems a bit lop sided when someone with an agenda is given a free platform and then when he is called on it they want to start a new thread.
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fmofmpls

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Re: Box o' Vinyl Recasts
« Reply #56 on: March 09, 2012, 11:38:34 AM »
Terry can modify this thread or close it. its his show. but it seems a bit lop sided when someone with an agenda is given a free platform and then when he is called on it they want to start a new thread.

I have no intentions of closing it. I've only "modified" it to separate the two distinct issues. As I've already noted in an earlier post, I can easily understand how recasting discussions can lead to licensing discussions. Its been a component of this debate for a long time. And its certainly not unique to this thread, or for that matter, even George Stephenson. This is a topic that stands all alone and is certainly worthy of further discussion. And I strongly encourage you Hammerfan to partake in it as George has promised to do. But this discussion here is in regards to recasting model kits. And that is how it will remain.

And just for the record, everybody here is given a "free platform". The UMA is built upon open and transparent discussion and the exchange of ideas and/or opinions (under our TOS). George has been given nothing more or less.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 11:43:30 AM by fmofmpls »
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Hepcat

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Re: Box o' Vinyl Recasts
« Reply #57 on: March 09, 2012, 11:44:05 AM »
Hello, I don't mean to beat a dead horse,but I did not see a reply to my questions?

So again I would like to know, has Hammerfan or HepKat ever produced an unlicensed kit or made recasts of existing kits?

...I would like to hear from HepKat & Hammerfan's answers to my questions.


Patience! I'm not on 24/7.

1. I've never recast a kit.

2. I've never cast any kits whatsoever.

3. I've never bought a recasted kit.

4. I've never bought any resin or garage kits at all. I have, however, admired pictures of many.

My chosen area of play is somewhat different. Here are some pictures of my main model cabinet:




 

 

 

 

 

 

 
Here are a few pictures of my board game, lunch box, miscellaneous toy and overflow model cabinet:











Come around more often. You'll find that I make my interests almost as obvious as the spelling of my name.

 ;)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 02:03:22 PM by Hepcat »
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hammerfan

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Re: Box o' Vinyl Recasts
« Reply #58 on: March 09, 2012, 12:01:54 PM »
nice collection hepcat
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Dr Acula

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Re: Box o' Vinyl Recasts
« Reply #59 on: March 09, 2012, 12:47:24 PM »
Larry and Dr. Acula: If you are advocating banning unlicensed products from UMA, please bring  that discussion in another thread.  I've been pretty clear about my views on unlicensed kits.  But the fact is that recasters don't bootleg only or even primarily unlicensed kits.  The recast kits referred to in the opening post to this thread were all LICENSED.  The moderator here re-opened this thread to discuss recasts.  Bringing unlicensed products and pre-paints sidetracks the discussion of recasting that has been a huge problem for UMA mods.  We are hoping to bring some sanity to the discussion of recasting and most of the commentary here has been about that issue.  If you want to discuss unlicensed products, which would also include T-shirts and masks and other product, I'll gladly respond to that in another thread.  I'm not afraid to deal with that issue either but in another thread.  Thanks, guys.

GeoS

Hi george Im in no way advocating banning anything, licensed or unlicensed.  You brought up the subject of having produced unlicensed products to the thread and I feel Hammerfan is correct to address it.  I simply just loving collecting and painting and had never considered any of the subjects mentioned here before.  I must congratulate UMA  here for allowing this discussion as I feel it is very productive to hear the issues kit manufacturers are having.

 

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