BLACK SABBATH...........A show of hands, are you a fan?!?

[Hepcat]

I'm thinking what we've come to call "Heavy Metal" is obviously rooted in the Blues.

I respect each one of these bands for their contributions but for good or bad Sabbath definitely stands out from them and the "normal" heavy blues sound!

I know that there are a lot of hardcore Black Sabbath fans on this board but let me cast my dissenting opinion. By taking the blues out from the sound, I think Black Sabbath removed the key element that made the sound of those earlier bands such as the Rolling Stones, Animals, Yardbirds, Who, Paul Butterfield Blues Band, Cream, Ten Years After, Jimi Hendrix Experience, (Peter Green's) Fleetwood  Mac, etc. interesting. When heavy metal became divorced from its blues roots, it lost me. Too many of the metal bands thereafter just seem contrived and silly to me. Their music has just left me thinking "Huh? What's the point?"

[Hepcat]

The Yardbirds came before them all....

I agree. The Yardbirds were incredible, and Jeff Beck's guitar was a key to their other worldly sound.



And Jeff's still out there playing in concerts at the top pf his game.

Jeff Beck & Joss Stone - I Put A Spell On You (Live at Wetten, dass...?, 2010)

[marsattacks666]

I know that there are a lot of hardcore Black Sabbath fans on this board but let me cast my dissenting opinion. By taking the blues out from the sound, I think Black Sabbath removed the key element that made the sound of those earlier bands such as the Rolling Stones, Animals, Yardbirds, Who, Paul Butterfield Blues Band, Cream, Ten Years After, Jimi Hendrix Experience, (Peter Green's) Fleetwood  Mac, etc. interesting. When heavy metal became divorced from its blues roots, it lost me. Too many of the metal bands thereafter just seem contrived and silly to me. Their music has just left me thinking "Huh? What's the point?"

Hepcat, I respect your opinion that you have given about Heavy Metal. I myself will have to disagree. The love of Heavy
Metal may be a generational opinion? I used to think a certain democratic enjoyed,.Heavy Metal. I was wrong. Through
the years, playing gigs from state to state. I have met many people, various ages, colors and nationalities, who dig Heavy Metal.

Again, everyone has their own opinion, when it comes to music. Being a musician, I listen to everything music related.
My point is, and I guess with all genres of music?  Each genre of any music can become derivative, boring and familiar.
While Heavy Metal is still frowned apon, by certain people. There are still hundreds an thousands of fan(antics).

[Hepcat]

There are live recordings/performances from the Yardbirds out there.....none of them sound particularly more outstanding than any other fair of the time?!

This video makes it very apparent that the Yardbirds were already in 1965 blazing the path that so many of the heavy metal bands were to follow over the next five to ten years.

Jeff Beck & The Yardbirds-I'm A Man "Live" 8/65

[marsattacks666]

This video makes it very apparent that the Yardbirds were already in 1965 blazing the path that so many of the heavy metal bands were to follow over the next five to ten years.

Jeff Beck & The Yardbirds-I'm A Man "Live" 8/65

Awesome song. The Yardbirds were the epitome of great guitar rock.

[zombiehorror]

That Rolling Stone, Dave Marsh quote is laughable!  All of those things existed in music (and even appeared on recordings) before the Yardbirds existence.  I'm not sure that there was a "metal" band around in the early 60's that knew what they were doing, they were all experimenting with sound/instruments/music....among other things!

Bands such as The Who, The Kinks, MC5, The Animals, The Doors, etc. were all forming the basis of heavy metal thru their experimentation.  Me personally I don't lump those bands as heavy metal though, I consider Black Sabbath, Budgie and Judas Priest to really be the first "metal" acts and the genre really wasn't strong until the mid/late 70's with the "new wave of British metal" (which I just consider heavy metal) and early 80's American bands!

These bands include Iron Maiden, Diamond Head, Metallica, Sepultura, Motorhead, Anthrax, etc.  Now heavy metal is also not to be confused with hair metal/cock rock (although again many folks consider it just metal) which consists of such bands as Motley Crue, Winger, Warrant, Dokken, Skid Row, Poison, Def Leppard and all those other godawful bands I was subjected to because I was a teen in the early/mid 80's, two hair metal bands that actually acheived a heavier-metal sound were Quiet Riot and Twisted Sister but I still consider them more hair than heavy!  All of these bands take more of a direct influence from earlier 60's metal and from such earlier acts as KISS and Aerosmith than they do from Black Sabbath and other 70's metal bands.

I'm not trying to denounce any influence that the Yardbirds had on heavy metal but they certainly weren't the only band defining or building the genre and for heavy metal bands that would come later (again talking mid/late 70's and on) it is certainly Black Sabbath that most cite as a major influence not the Yardbirds.  Also before it is brought up that maybe most "metalheads" just don't know the history of rock 'n' roll......the people in these bands have such a diverse range of musical influences from classical to jazz to blues to country to 50's rock 'n' roll to 60's metal and on!!  So it isn't just, "Sabbath is all I know.", it's how Black Sabbath took others influence and didn't just copy it but made it their own.

As for the video, a great song and performance indeed but for me it can easily be equaled with a performance by contemparies like The Who, MC5, The Animals, etc.

[Hepcat]

As for the (Yardbirds) video, a great song and performance indeed but for me it can easily be equaled with a performance by contemparies like The Who, MC5, The Animals, etc.

While the Animals and the Who were contemporaries of the Yardbirds, calling the MC5 another contemporary band is really stretching it. Yes, the MC5 originated in someone's basement rec room in 1964, but their debut album Kick Out the Jams wasn't released until 1969. The video of the Yardbirds I posted was from 1965 and the Yardbirds had broken up by 1968. And rock music evolved enormously in the four years between 1965 and 1969.

Now heavy metal is also not to be confused with hair metal/cock rock (although again many folks consider it just metal) which consists of such bands as Motley Crue, Winger, Warrant, Dokken, Skid Row, Poison, Def Leppard and all those other godawful bands I was subjected to because I was a teen in the early/mid 80's, two hair metal bands that actually acheived a heavier-metal sound were Quiet Riot and Twisted Sister but I still consider them more hair than heavy!

Why did you leave out Van Halen? I thought they originated the hair metal genre.

[marsattacks666]

While the Animals and the Who were contemporaries of the Yardbirds, calling the MC5 another contemporary band is really stretching it. Yes, the MC5 originated in someone's basement rec room in 1964, but their debut album Kick Out the Jams wasn't released until 1969. The video of the Yardbirds I posted was from 1965 and the Yardbirds had broken up by 1968. And rock music evolved enormously in the four years between 1965 and 1969.

Why did you leave out Van Halen? I thought they originated the hair metal genre.

Actually, there are about ten bands prior to Crap........er Van Halen, that were the precursor to  Hair Metal.

[zombiehorror]

While the Animals and the Who were contemporaries of the Yardbirds, calling the MC5 another contemporary band is really stretching it. Yes, the MC5 originated in someone's basement rec room in 1964, but their debut album Kick Out the Jams wasn't released until 1969.

I suppose you have a point if you only place validity in bands recordings but they'd been playing shows and making a name for themselves long before that debut album!

One could easily throw Van Halen into the hair metal category but they were definitely not your typical hair metal band, nor were they the originaters!

[batgirly]

Love Sabbath, prefer them with Bill Ward

[marsattacks666]

Love Sabbath, prefer them with Bill Ward

Unfortunately, Bill Ward won't be part of the Sabbath magic, this time around. On tour with Sabbath, playing drums is Ozzy's /RobZombie's former drummer.

[zombiehorror]

Love Sabbath, prefer them with Bill Ward

I prefer them with Ozzy!  Personally I think the new album sounds like old school Black Sabbath, not retreaded mind you but more of a continuation of what they sounded like in 79 when Ozzy left.  I don't think they could have found that again without Ozzy's return.......it is unfortunate though that Ward was not made a part of it.

[Hepcat]

One could easily throw Van Halen into the hair metal category but they were definitely not your typical hair metal band....

Huh? I thought Van Halen was the prototypical hair band. What makes you disagree?

[zombiehorror]

Huh? I thought Van Halen was the prototypical hair band. What makes you disagree?

I'm definitely no Van Halen expert but their playing was way above a typical hair metal band and the year they formed, 1972.  The 70's would make them more classic/hard rock, hair metal wasn't really born until the 80's, though some older bands, like Van Halen and Aerosmith would become lumped into the new-radio freindly metal!  And hell even KISS tried joining the new breed when they were seen without their signature make-up in 83!  Also let me add that when I say "new breed" I by no means am insinuating that a form of hair metal didn't exist pre-1980, though it was labeled glam and to my knowledge there weren't a whole lot of bands that fell under that category.

[Allhallowsday]

This video makes it very apparent that the Yardbirds were already in 1965 blazing the path that so many of the heavy metal bands were to follow over the next five to ten years.
Jeff Beck & The Yardbirds-I'm A Man "Live" 8/65

One thing's for sure; THE YARDBIRDS kicked ass. 

Actually, there are about ten bands prior to Crap........er Van Halen, that were the precursor to  Hair Metal.

I like VAN HALEN!  But back in the day only had 1984 on vinyl.