Chucky Made Oprah Binge on Mac&Cheese

[Uncula]

Who are we talking about?

I was talking about the quote, by MoonShadow, of being a follower of Oprah.

[Moonshadow]

Agreed.........to that point, we have a neighbor at the new house who was very friendly towards us until I brought my kids over to say hello. Suddenly, things got a bit more frosty. We recently left a church for the same reason. Folks simply stopped talking to us after we began bringing the baby (who is black). And I mean EVERYONE stopped talking to us.

Is that an excuse for Jonah or Jordan to hide behind if they fail?? Hell no. Their lives are filled with examples of very successful black lawyers, and Jewish surgeons, and white executives, and Hispanic entrepreneurs. They succeeded despite anyone elses prejudice, and I expect the same from my kids. I don't expect them to crumble because someone doesn't like their color any more than I expect them to crumble if someone calls them "fatty" or "cripple".

Gary, I truly am sorry to hear that you and your family have had to experience that kind of prejudice. I know about that 'cold shoulder' -me and my husband (I'm white, he's black) have experienced it too. Sometimes I wonder if I am imagining things, but other times it is pretty dang obvious. It's especially disappointing that your church turned on you.

I do know that you and Nancy will give your kids the love and strength they need to deal with stuff like this. And no, I don't feel that it's an excuse for them to use if they fail -but I do think it's an added pressure that I'd rather that they, and my niece and nephews, didn't have to deal with.

Karen

[Opera Ghost]

I want to be the Martha Stewart of Monsters.

"poof" So it is written...so it is done!


Gary, I guess living in Southern CA, my perception has been clouded, as it is more common now than not to see a mixture  of ethnicities, races, cultures and religions within families, so much so, that now I do not see the hate, anger and anamosities I knew and lived amongst growing up in the 60s and 70s back in MD, in my world today. Even the news seems to contain less of it these days, so much so, that I was horrified to read your recent experiences. I am so very sorry my friend, for that which you're facing. Your children are so very lucky to Nancy, and yourself--with such great wisdom and perspective. I wish ya'll lived next door so I could send my son over to play, when we're not at my place bbq'g. Perhaps one day

OG

[Toy Ranch]

I used to believe that truth = fact, and fact = truth.  It seemed logical.  Then, one day I saw this, and something clicked, and I understood that fact and truth are not the same.  What people believe plays into truth, and truth is a perception. 



Truth is different from one person to another, depending on their beliefs (which are partially based on their experiences).

[BaronLatos35]

When it comes to talking courageously about race, it is not as simple as black and white, 2+2=4 etc. Gray is the color that reigns in between these lines.

I have found that the funniest, strangest, saddest and yet most beautiful things come from reflections on our own lives and on how others have effected it, in other words "actual truth".

I offer this book, written by a Black author and a White author. We have used it in our inquiry/focus group at school since it does deal with children in a school setting. It is a good introductory book that has lead to difficult, tense, emotional conversations that has slowly morphed into a trusting core of educators.



This type of conversation is best suited for face to face discussions, as alot is lost in translation.

[Uncula]

I used to believe that truth = fact, and fact = truth.  It seemed logical.  Then, one day I saw this, and something clicked, and I understood that fact and truth are not the same.  What people believe plays into truth, and truth is a perception. 



Truth is different from one person to another, depending on their beliefs (which are partially based on their experiences).

If you took that "TRUTH" label, and slide it over beneath the "FACT" label and finally , put an Equal (= ) sign between the "FACT" and "TRUTH" labels so that "FACT = TRUTH", it would be more correct!

Then "All FACT= TRUTH and Some BELIEF = TRUTH then All TRUTH = FACT and Some BELIEF = FACT but not ALL BELIEF = FACT".     

[Scatter]

I used to believe that truth = fact, and fact = truth.  It seemed logical.  Then, one day I saw this, and something clicked, and I understood that fact and truth are not the same.  What people believe plays into truth, and truth is a perception. 



Truth is different from one person to another, depending on their beliefs (which are partially based on their experiences).

TR, you're confusing "true" and "truth". Truth has nothing to do with perception. 2+2=4 is truth no matter what an individual's perception may be. However, the perception that 2+2 is NOT 4 will make some things true for you and not for me............you will mismanage your checkbook, you will have trouble counting your collection, you will shortly be in lockup after Uncle Sam audits you.

What's TRUE for you may not be TRUE for me, because that IS subjective. It's true you sell toys, it's NOT true that I sell toys. But truth by definition is that which is not subject to individual perception.  It is truth that gravity holds us to the planet whether or not anyone perceives it to be so or not. Those who refuse to believe that do nothing to affect gravity, but it does tell you something interesting about that person. He can believe as strongly as it is possible to believe that gravity has no hold on him, but no matter how intense his faith, when he steps off the balcony of a 40 story office building he will find that gravity is a truth, his perceptions be damned.

What people believe affects THEM, it does not affect truth. The definition of "fact" is....... "Something that exists;reality;truth". That which is truth MUST by necessity be fact, and vice versa. The words "true" and "truth" are not synonymous. That which is true for you need not be true for me, but that which is truth (2+2=4,the Law of Gravity, the earth rotates around the sun,etc.), is not subject to our perceptions or beliefs. It's the same whether we believe it or not.

I think most of the debate merely centers around a definition of terms.

[Scatter]

When it comes to talking courageously about race, it is not as simple as black and white, 2+2=4 etc. Gray is the color that reigns in between these lines.

I have found that the funniest, strangest, saddest and yet most beautiful things come from reflections on our own lives and on how others have effected it, in other words "actual truth".

I offer this book, written by a Black author and a White author. We have used it in our inquiry/focus group at school since it does deal with children in a school setting. It is a good introductory book that has lead to difficult, tense, emotional conversations that has slowly morphed into a trusting core of educators.



This type of conversation is best suited for face to face discussions, as alot is lost in translation.

Absolutely...........actually, the Baron wrote me a PM asking me to clarify my position based upon the difficulty of communicating with precision in this format (written). Without the ability to look into the eyes of the person with whom your communicating, the ability to hear tone and inflection, meaning can be easily misconstrued. Lest anyone have the impression that my responses were directed at the Baron as an individual, I offer the clarification I sent to him.

"I was responding to the perception by some that any dislike of Oprah just HAD to be based upon her race. I was neither denying nor doubting that you had heard those voices (I have heard them myself), I was merely reacting to the seemingly endless dredging of racial components on virtually any issue in this society (not that you were doing so by merely reporting those voices, my frustration is that so many of those voices are still resonating).

My entire point is encapsulated in this..........Cannot dislike of Oprah be based purely upon her vapid program and upon her (I believe) harmful foisting of a litany of spiritual charlatans upon her gullible minions?? Does the perception by some in the black community that another more sinister motive is behind a distaste for Oprah make it true simply because they perceive it to be so?? Is there more than one truth based upon the perception of any individual, or is truth ultimately not subject to individual or group perception, but rather stands as absolute and objective despite any perceptions to the contrary??"

My apologies if my postings left my position unclear. That's what you get for trying to do this in writing rather than face-to-face, not to mention while I'm simultaneously at least TRYING to look like I'm actually working for my boss. 

[Scatter]

Gary, I truly am sorry to hear that you and your family have had to experience that kind of prejudice. I know about that 'cold shoulder' -me and my husband (I'm white, he's black) have experienced it too. Sometimes I wonder if I am imagining things, but other times it is pretty dang obvious. It's especially disappointing that your church turned on you.

I do know that you and Nancy will give your kids the love and strength they need to deal with stuff like this. And no, I don't feel that it's an excuse for them to use if they fail -but I do think it's an added pressure that I'd rather that they, and my niece and nephews, didn't have to deal with.

Karen

I agree completely!! We were wondering if we were just imagining things too, until the days without a word turned into weeks. And I wish as well that we still didn't live in a world filled with hard-hearted, bigoted ignorami who can't see the beauty in another culture because they can't see past someone's pigmentation. THAT is the source of my frustration.

As a multicultural family, as well as the parents of a severely disabled child, I can deal with the whispers and the furtive stares and the occasional giggles, and I expect my kids to as well. But I agree it's a damn shame they have to.

[Scatter]

Gary, I guess living in Southern CA, my perception has been clouded, as it is more common now than not to see a mixture  of ethnicities, races, cultures and religions within families, so much so, that now I do not see the hate, anger and anamosities I knew and lived amongst growing up in the 60s and 70s back in MD, in my world today.

See why I love LA?? 

Even the news seems to contain less of it these days, so much so, that I was horrified to read your recent experiences. I am so very sorry my friend, for that which you're facing. Your children are so very lucky to Nancy, and yourself--with such great wisdom and perspective. I wish ya'll lived next door so I could send my son over to play, when we're not at my place bbq'g. Perhaps one day

OG

Man, that would be fantastic!! You could even pick us up for BBQs in the Batmobile!!

[monsterphile]

...I can deal with the whispers and the furtive stares and the occasional giggles, and I expect my kids to as well. But I agree it's a damn shame they have to.

That is what, as a parent, is the most difficult thing to accept.  Life, like teaching a child to ride a bike, is exciting for us as parents, but when we finally do let go, we hold our breath and hope that we taught them well.  Gravity and the hard ground is beyond our control.

Boy, this thread got Deep.  Schrödinger's cat just killed himself using Occam's Razor.   

Rob

[Toy Ranch]

TR, you're confusing "true" and "truth". Truth has nothing to do with perception. 2+2=4 is truth no matter what an individual's perception may be. However, the perception that 2+2 is NOT 4 will make some things true for you and not for me............you will mismanage your checkbook, you will have trouble counting your collection, you will shortly be in lockup after Uncle Sam audits you.

What's TRUE for you may not be TRUE for me, because that IS subjective. It's true you sell toys, it's NOT true that I sell toys. But truth by definition is that which is not subject to individual perception.  It is truth that gravity holds us to the planet whether or not anyone perceives it to be so or not. Those who refuse to believe that do nothing to affect gravity, but it does tell you something interesting about that person. He can believe as strongly as it is possible to believe that gravity has no hold on him, but no matter how intense his faith, when he steps off the balcony of a 40 story office building he will find that gravity is a truth, his perceptions be damned.

What people believe affects THEM, it does not affect truth. The definition of "fact" is....... "Something that exists;reality;truth". That which is truth MUST by necessity be fact, and vice versa. The words "true" and "truth" are not synonymous. That which is true for you need not be true for me, but that which is truth (2+2=4,the Law of Gravity, the earth rotates around the sun,etc.), is not subject to our perceptions or beliefs. It's the same whether we believe it or not.

I think most of the debate merely centers around a definition of terms.

No, I meant what I said, and I said exactly what I meant.  And I'm not confused in the least.

We simply do not agree. 

[Scatter]

No, I meant what I said, and I said exactly what I meant.  And I'm not confused in the least.

We simply do not agree.

No discussion is possible absent a definition of terms, unfortunately.

[Scatter]

That is what, as a parent, is the most difficult thing to accept.  Life, like teaching a child to ride a bike, is exciting for us as parents, but when we finally do let go, we hold our breath and hope that we taught them well.  Gravity and the hard ground is beyond our control.

Boy, this thread got Deep.  Schrödinger's cat just killed himself using Occam's Razor.   

Rob

LOL!!

[Toy Ranch]

No discussion is possible absent a definition of terms, unfortunately.

Websters has definitions, those are fine with me.  But I see no point in continuing the discussion, and I don't think the UMA is the venue in which to do it if I did.