A question about monster archetypes

[AlwaysWitty]

Now, it's safe to say that for the various classic horror archetypes, there are certain memorable films that helped solidify them. The vampire had Dracula, the werewolf had The Wolf Man, the mad scientist had Frankenstein and Island of Lost Souls, so on and so forth. Naturally there are more films than these out of the era to implant these archetypes firmly in the pop cultural consciousness, but I noticed something: I can't think of an example for the wicked old witch. Sure, The Wizard of Oz and Disney's Snow White probably had something to do with it, but they're not horror films. So then, how did this archetype become part of the stock monster stable? Was it really just those influential films? Is there some hidden gem I'm unaware of because I'm the new kid on the block?

It should go without saying that genre is of particular interest to me, and I've always been curious about stock characters and cliches and archetypes, so this has me kind of puzzled.

[Robert W]

If you're asking from whence did the wicked old witch archetype come from, I think the best answer to that would be from the Inquisition and its handbook, the Malleus Malificrum.

Of course the tradition of women as sorcerers/seeresses is amply testified to in Occidental history, but the turning of women into diabolists/workers of iniquities is really the work of Xtians.

[zombiehorror]

...............I can't think of an example for the wicked old witch. Sure, The Wizard of Oz and Disney's Snow White probably had something to do with it, but they're not horror films. So then, how did this archetype become part of the stock monster stable? Was it really just those influential films? Is there some hidden gem I'm unaware of because I'm the new kid on the block?

I don't think it was any film as much as it was literature (and stories handed down) Hanzel and Gretal, Snow White (the fable, not the Disney version), Sleeping Beauty, Rapunzel; The wicked old witch has been a staple of Halloween since its inception so she doesn't really need the PR of a film behind her!

[Count_Zirock]

Although witches depicted as hags and crones was mostky a literary device, you can thank the Swedes for the truly horrific filmic depictions of them in 1922's "Haxan" (a.k.a. "Witchcraft Through the Ages"). Also, early illustrated versions of "The Wizard of Oz," and its various sequels and silent film adaptations, showed pretty frightening old hags as the various Wicked Witches.
Dracula had a couple of fairly popular predecessors, though. Lord Ruthvan, Sir Varney, and Carmilla. Werewolves were popular legends, but didn't really make the literary scene until "The Werewolf of Paris," which was the basis for Hammer's "Curse of the Werewolf" (relocated from France to Spain because Hammer had some sets leftover from another film).

[Jethro]

I always did wonder why Aurora produced the "The Witch" model.  She never was a classic film monster like the rest of the model line.
I bought it because of the box art which had a lot of monstrous details.

[AlwaysWitty]

Although witches depicted as hags and crones was mostky a literary device, you can thank the Swedes for the truly horrific filmic depictions of them in 1922's "Haxan" (a.k.a. "Witchcraft Through the Ages"). Also, early illustrated versions of "The Wizard of Oz," and its various sequels and silent film adaptations, showed pretty frightening old hags as the various Wicked Witches.
Dracula had a couple of fairly popular predecessors, though. Lord Ruthvan, Sir Varney, and Carmilla. Werewolves were popular legends, but didn't really make the literary scene until "The Werewolf of Paris," which was the basis for Hammer's "Curse of the Werewolf" (relocated from France to Spain because Hammer had some sets leftover from another film).

Oh yeah, there's no question about there being a plethora of literary examples. But from what I can gather, it was when these monsters made the transition into film that they sort of became the pop culture phenomenon they are today. Shelley's novel had been around for a while before it came out, but it's the Karloff film and that image of the monster that everyone remembers. Like Jethro points out, Aurora made a model of "The Witch" even though that stock monster hadn't been given the classic horror film treatment. I mean, with movies alone you can think of other examples of these archetypes that didn't stick quite as much, like Werewolf of London, but I can't think of any such film that does for the witch what Whale's Frankenstein did for that particular monster, let alone more obscure efforts.

Good call on Haxan though. I dunno if I'd count it as part of the stable though. I'd group it with pre-classical monster movies like Faust, Nosferatu, The Cabinet of Doctor Caligari, that sort of thing. But that's just me. I suppose if you have a more broad idea of the classic movie monster, they'd all fit together.

There's an idea for a movie. Make the old school wicked witch film Universal never did, in that classic atmospheric, black and white style. Maybe even use an old Gothic Horror novel as a loose source for inspiration.

[Count_Zirock]

I always did wonder why Aurora produced the "The Witch" model.  She never was a classic film monster like the rest of the model line.

Um, "The Forgotten Prisoner" wasn't even a character, he was set dressing, yet he got a kit.

[Dr. Madd]

I don't think you can blame the Christian faith for this, at least not entirely. Baba Yaga in Russia (Origins date back to Russia's pagan past), Morgan La Fey, (Pagan Britain), The Stygian Hags of Ancient Greece, and even India's Kali probably had some influence on Witch-lore.

[MDG]

Um, "The Forgotten Prisoner" wasn't even a character, he was set dressing, yet he got a kit.

The Forgotten Prisoner got an originstory inan issue of Creepy.

I remember a comic book ad announcing The Witch attend Bride models. Maybe they were just casting arou d for ideas of female characters.

[Rich]

I always did wonder why Aurora produced the "The Witch" model.  She never was a classic film monster like the rest of the model line.
I bought it because of the box art which had a lot of monstrous details.

Have you ever seen The Wizard of Oz? It is true that the film is technically not a classic monster film, yet it was released in that era and Margeret Hamelton as the Wicked Witch of the West was pretty scary.

[Jethro]

Have you ever seen The Wizard of Oz? It is true that the film is technically not a classic monster film, yet it was released in that era and Margeret Hamelton as the Wicked Witch of the West was pretty scary.
[/quot
Yes I have seen,it countless times and not once would I compare the Margaret Hamilton witch to the Aurora Witch and I am betting Aurora didn't either.
The Aurora Witch is more like the Queen Zimba character in "Son of Dracula" in my opinion

[Wolf Man]

Not a Universal Classic film but check out the witch in Pumpkinhead.  There is a great line "that old lady scares the hell out of me"  and I agree with that sentiment.  She is also the quintessential witch.  Plus, take a close look at how close she is in concept to the Aurora model.

[Haunted hearse]

Even though she wasn't featured in a major Horror film, I can't help bet think of Comic Books.  EC's "the Old witch" who appeared in their horror comics, and starred in "The Haunt of fear" were based on a radio characters who hosted an anthology shows; The Witch's Tale (1931-38).  By the time the Aurora kits came out, you already had the Old Witch as a solid Haloween Icon.  Also, not every Aurora Monster was based on a horror film.  The mentioned "Forgotten Prisoner" , the Guillotine, and there was a proposed "The hanging Tree" which  made it to the prototype stage, but never into actual production by Aurora.