The Forry Ackerman Profiles in History auction

[preyer]

how'd you come by those, if you don't mind me asking? just curious.

[typhooforme]

The robotrix face and hand turned up on Ebay!  They were being sold by a man who specialized in film props, and I had already got from him some Harryhausen-made fragments of one of the gov't bldgs destroyed in EARTH VS THE FLYING SAUCERS and a few other things--some TERMINATOR miniature set pieces, and other stuff.  He described the robotrix items as having belonged to Forry--and I was so bowled over by their beauty--and so fearful that they'd be snatched up fast--that I bought them immediately without first double checking with Forry as I usually did if an interesting piece attributed to his collection came to light.  After I got these, I sent photos and emailed Forry, and Forry and Joe both wrote back AMAZED that the pieces were in existence!  As I said previously, Forry thought they had been discarded after the robotrix was completed.  "Technically," said Forry, "they still belong to me, as I commissioned them to be made!"  I asked Forry if he wanted them for himself, then--and Joe wrote back then saying, "Forry says no, they are yours now, they BELONG in your collection, for he can think of no place they'll be better appreciated!"  Once, at a Bash convention, Forry was looking at photos of my collection, Joe pointing out different things that used to be in the Ackermansion saying "Remember that one, Forry?", "Remember where this used to sit, Forry?"--and Forry said, "I'm so glad you've got these things--and I hope you will never have to sell your collection as I did mine!"  I can clearly recall the wistfulness in his voice.  One of those moments riveted in my memory.

[preyer]

good story, and it sounds like forry was right, it's in a collection where it can be appreciated.

[hammett1]

Thank you for sharing.  This is another example of Forry's goodness and kind heart. A true Man amoung Men.  Peace.

[preyer]

the more i think about it, i'm not sure i agree with forry's logic that 'technically' he owned the prototypes by virtue of commissioning maria. he commissioned a final product, not the processes, materials and tools, eh? this may be a bad analogy, but when i order a car built to my specifications, that doesn't mean i own all the tooling that went into that. if someone has to rig up a special tool or jig or something in order to build it, i don't own that, no?

i don't mean to take it out of context here or suggest anything; by most accounts, forry was a sweet, kind man, and it would seem to be out of character for him to demand these from you... i just don't agree that he owned them. it's kinda like saying i own the rest of the leftover paint in the can you used to paint my car, lol.

do you think there's some profit potential there with those things? i think there may be something there on a small level. or is there a moral dilemma and/or legal issue involved? or do you view that as profiteering as opposed to capitalism? or maybe just being a jerk? lol.

how do you guys really feel about this collection being broken up? do you feel there's a certain reverence or awe associated with it in general? being a collector, i hate seeing collections, especially ones that took a lifetime to acquire, scattered to the winds. sadly, it happens every day, they just call it an 'estate sale.' i used to go to these things on occasion looking to buy something to turn a small profit on, and i admit i always had a twinge of guilt about it for some inexplicable reason (like i said, i'm a capitalist, but i'm a human being first). there's nothing wrong with it, but damned if i can't find anything especially right about it, either.

but, i mean, how do you guys feel about finding some of these things on ebay afterwards? would it make you angry? i think had i known forry, i'd be pissed. how dare these people make a profit! but, by the same token, how dare *me* for haggling with someone's mom selling their kid's he-man collection at a garage sale so i can sell it at a flea market or ebay. knowing that there are only three realistic possibilities with this he-man collection's fate (it gets put back in the basement to rot, it gets sold to someone else, or it gets thrown away!), some dealers are doing collectors a favour by giving them a means to buy something they're looking for. and in all actuality, dealers are doing the hobby a favour by putting it in the hands of people who recognize the value of items as opposed to some mom looking to buy cheap toys for her brat, sees this he-man junk, buys it for a song, and lets her kid destroy some rare toy.

most dealers i've known began as collectors themselves, so there's a dychotomy there between collector and capitalist, emotion versus money. it's something i've not been able to reconcile completely within myself even when i didn't know the person who the stuff belonged to. it's all too easy to chalk it up to 'that's life,' especially when you know you're going to make ten times your investment on something. i can justify it on a mental level by saying that i'm likely ensuring these things will go to the best possible person that'll take loving care of it. that's the hope, at any rate. it's just really tough when you know the person and the emotional attachment they had to their collection. had i known forry, i couldn't do that. hell, i barely know any of y'all, but i know you love forry and i *still* couldn't do that. of course, this is a bit different since this collection is so tied into an actual legacy.

anyhoo, i'm babbling....

[typhooforme]

Maybe I stated it awkwardly.  Forry's conversation was longer than saying "technically that's mine".  I boiled it down here in an attempt to speak briefly.  Under no circumstances did he seem to be hinting for me to give it to him.    He'd paid to have it made and was surprised to see it again after many years of believing it was long gone.  We had had several years of collecting camaraderie by then, and my offer to give it to him was made in friendship, without hesitation. 

As to breaking up collections--even public museums (sometimes under the table) get rid of items in order to make space, or to make money.  There are a few UMA members here whose families have been, to a greater or lesser extent, involved in antiques and collectibles buying/selling as mine were.  Same thing goes for that sort of thing.  I doubt if many private collections succeed in being more than one or possibly two generations' duration.  Things are collected, treasured, and with the passage of time, set free to be collected and treasured by new collectors.  The great "cabinets of curiosities" assembled in the 17th and 18th centuries are long since dispersed.  Thousands of 19th century "private museums" have been scattered for more than a hundred years.  That Forry's huge collection wasn't given its own museum in L.A. is a shame, but it's hardly a surprise.  We're lucky that parts of it have been preserved for the public in other museum collections.   My opinions on the topic--nothing more.

[preyer]

no, you stated it just fine. i'm the one who didn't mean to insinuate that forry seriously wanted them back. just the more i thought about it, for whatever reason i had nothing more pressing to ponder, lol, i don't believe that when you commission something, you own, say, the molds that made the mask. it was merely a collector's train of thought more than trying to single anyone out.

regarding breaking up collections, for me it's different when you know the person or have to look them in their sad eyes. there were those folk that always made me feel like i was taking advantage of them somehow. i liked the way you phrased your opinion on that.

[typhooforme]

Thanks, preyer.  I use-ta could string words together purty good, but sometimes I ain't as good at it as I use-ta was. 

Forry's longtime wish to have his collection housed in a public museum is a story so many of his fans have followed over the years with sympathy and sadness.  At least a number of his things have a home in the Seattle Science Fiction Museum/Hall of Fame, and for that we can be grateful.   The rest--well, I reckon we collectors and fans will honor the old Ackermonster by cherishing what few items of his we've acquired.  And the collecting world keeps turning.

[avenger]

Well said,Robert !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mike c]

I know most (if not all) Forry followers would have loved to have his entire collection in one place, to be sure. Personally, I would have loved it if the entire collection at the Glendower Ackermansion could've stayed there, the entire home, layout, and museum a permanent operation (only a little better cleaned, dusted off, and maintained/archived). If only I were a multi-millionaire, ya know?

BUT, I do think it's interesting to consider that his collection, and his impact, are so far-reaching that perhaps only a truly wide-ranging legacy can be had.

I mean, maybe having his vast collection spread out among fandom is a not-so-terrible end to his incredible life.

He touched so many, impacted so many. And for all his mania over his 'things', I have a sneaking feeling that underneath it all he knew it was just stuff.

He loved seeing fantasy fans smile, and if the division of his lifetime's collected spoils makes more of his friends and fans smile with the honor of having a piece of the Ackerman collection, so much the better.

Of course there'll be some buyers who aren't the devoted 4SJ acolytes we all wish they'd be -- I would rather all of this stuff went to truly devoted fans -- but I think that most of the collection will go to real lovers and admirers of not only old Hollywood, monsters, fantasy and science fiction, but of the Ackermonster himself.

I can't feel too broken up about that.

Mike C.

[typhooforme]

Mike, you know whereof you speak.  Forry would have LIKED for his stuff to be in a museum for all to enjoy--but during the last decade or so Forry knew that "spreading the joy" was going to be the way things would go.  You're right in saying Forry realized it was "just stuff" (cool stuff, though!)--and I, too, hope that what is left goes to devoted fans.  I suspect most of it will be doing just that. 

[mike c]

Robert wrote:
(cool stuff though!)

Haha, no doubt about it!

Hey, he was a master collector, and a king 'thing' horder (I know, newsflash, right?)...
Like any of us, he'd still have done it if it were illegal and the punishment was death.
He'd grab his best 'things', hide them in some dark place, and at midnight he'd draw the curtains, pull them out and gloat over them by candlelight.

So I'm sure he coveted his stuff as tenaciously as any of us might, if not more than some, but at his core he knew they were only outward symbols of his passion, his love for the fantastic, the supernatural, the speculative and the terrifying. And that kind of passion and love can never be stolen, auctioned, divided or lost.

But it can be freely given and shared, which is what he did for all of us for so long. The 'stuff' may or may not have always been free, but the love was always a gift.

Because eventually, wherever these symbols go, the new owners will get older, and pass on, and their hordes will likely be divided, and another generation from now, the cycle will repeat. Nothing (that is, 'no thing') lasts, but we will pass on the wonderful passion and love, forever.

And I believe these symbols will eventually, and many times in the long future, go to places where that passion and love are alive and well.

Mike C.

[drmonster]

I just posted on my website some pics of Lot 679- Metropolis misc items.
Not very detailed yet but wanted to get something started.  Hope to get some more pics up sometime soon.
http://www.monstermoviebooks.homestead.com

Forry Ackerman Shall Not Die.

[mike c]

No doubt about it, drmonster... Uncle Forry Lives On.
And thanks for the pics; I look forward to more whenever you can.

Mike C.

[typhooforme]

Dr. Monster's lot must have arrived!  Congrats, D!  Mine arrived today, and I'll put up photos very soon.  Glad to preserve still more of Forry's collection!