Universal Monster Army

Chitter Chatter => General Discussion => Topic started by: drgangrene on February 05, 2008, 08:19:12 AM

Title: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: drgangrene on February 05, 2008, 08:19:12 AM
This is it! The final fight between movie monsters in a fight that YOU demanded, Universal Monster Army! The list of potential fights was narrowed down by voting process to this one battle - now it's up to YOU to determine a winner.

Who will win this clash of the intergalactic titans? Cast your vote today!

(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/larryu9/thingit2.jpg)
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout
Post by: SpankRamen on February 05, 2008, 08:31:43 AM
Wow, I'm the first one to vote!  8)
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: drgangrene on February 05, 2008, 10:10:38 AM
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how this one turns out - I suspect IT will runa way witht he battle, but you never know!
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: SpankRamen on February 05, 2008, 11:04:22 AM
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how this one turns out - I suspect IT will runa way with the battle, but you never know!

I hope so, because he is the stronger of the two, in my opinion.
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: Gary D Macabre on February 05, 2008, 12:15:30 PM
This is a good bout.  Lets look at the contenders:

IT-  Large and powerful alien from Mars.  Appears to beat it's victims to death with ITs tremendous strength and then drain them of their bodily fluids.  In the film they speak of the creature's intelligence beyond being that of basic animal instincts, but really there is nothing to suggest ITs intelligence surpasses average human intelligence at best.  ITs strengths are just that, its strength. Impervious to bullets, grenades, gas bombs, bazooka fire, radiation and high voltage.  It may not be the brightest, or most fleet of foot but it certainly can take a pounding.

THING- Too bad the movie, as good as it was, didn't reflect the screen play a bit better.  The Thing's description of tentacles and blade like appendages practically severing peoples heads is way better than just knocking people around with brute force.  Physically this Martian species is again a brute dwarfing the puny humans and batting them around like flies.  Impervious to gun fire, this could be due more to it's plant like nature than its physical stature.  The loss of an appendage to a dog and the humans choice to stick with edged weapons  suggest the Thing's outward physical durability is not substantial, rather it can regrow a lost limb practically over night.  Now on the intelligence side of the scale this creature obviously is superior to the brightest humanity has to offer accomplishing interstellar travel and quite possibly psychic ability, although from it's on screen behavior one would be pressed to tell.  Perhaps it just doesn't understand the humans and just views them as panicky bags of oozy sustenance and greatly underestimates their resourcefulness.

In comparing these two martian species, supposing they inhabit the same sci-fi universe and occupy the same world it's very much like if our planet had both modern humans and Neandertals.  Victory in this conflict is purely only on the basis of the circumstance in which they face off.  Change the scenario and you will undoubtedly change the outcome.

As I have said previously in this thread, I liken this combat to being a kid with toys of each monster in hand.  Naturally in that circumstance the battle become a physical punch out, and on that I will base my vote.

Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: SpankRamen on February 05, 2008, 04:15:12 PM
Who ya gonna vote for, Gary, It or The Thing? Have you already voted?

Speaking of which, GET TO THE POLLS... And vote for Barack Obama! 8)  
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: Gary D Macabre on February 05, 2008, 06:15:13 PM
Just putting the tale of the tape out there,  perhaps help someone else make a decision. Yeah I made my choice.
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: Nicole on February 05, 2008, 08:28:30 PM
I just cast my vote as well. I'm putting all my money on IT. ;D
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: SpankRamen on February 05, 2008, 08:37:31 PM
ONLY EIGHT VOTES???
WHERE IS EVERYBODY???

I thought this poll would have been burning up, by now.
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: drgangrene on February 06, 2008, 01:50:56 PM
Hopefully we'll get a few more votes here over the next week or so. We'll see!
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: SpankRamen on February 06, 2008, 08:41:47 PM
Are we seriously still at only 8 votes? ??? Unreal.
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: The Drunken Severed Head on February 06, 2008, 08:47:06 PM
OOPS! I couldn't see the poll when last I viewed this thread!
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: brandonslu on February 07, 2008, 10:24:02 AM
Tell your friends and arch rivals to vote.  Keep your rivals close though, you never know what they will do.
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: SpankRamen on February 07, 2008, 10:58:34 AM
Tell your friends and arch rivals to vote.  Keep your rivals close though, you never know what they will do.

Who'd you bet your last money on?
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: brandonslu on February 07, 2008, 12:07:21 PM
It....is going to kick some Marshall Matt Dillon butt.  The only real Thing movie was with Kurt Russell anyways. (Just kidding about that one, please don't ban me from this site.)
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: SpankRamen on February 07, 2008, 10:39:33 PM
I want to know who the 5 people are that voted for The Thing. Come on, show yourselves.
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: Tom Smith Monsternut on February 07, 2008, 11:36:15 PM
I voted for ..The Thing ! It is still one of my favorite movies of all time. Howard Hawks ! the overlapping dialogue , a classic !  and One of the scariest films of all time too.
I shutter to think what audiences thought when it was first shown in 1951 , I bet a lot of theater goers could not sleep that night !

I really think when you classify on how scary a movie is you have to remember the first time you saw it and the time it was made. Frankenstein is considered boring to today's teen audiences but when it was first shown in 1931 it scared the heck of of people.

Don't get me wrong .. I like It the Terror too but it was a cheaply made B Movie and can not compare to the Thing.

I know this thread is not about which is a better movie "The Thing is " it is a monster brawl and I still think the more intelligent Thing would take down  the lubering It down any day.

Best..
Tom " THING" Smith

PS.. I do like the remake too even though it went way to far with the gore.

 I have funny yet true Monster kid story about the remake..

The year "1982"  it came out my wife was expecting our first child. She was due in June ,The Thing was due to come out in June. Guess what day my daughter decided to come in to our lives on ... June 24 ..The day the Thing came out.
 I wanted to call her Thing but my wife though Tiffany was better and we went with that.

I did get to see it that day though after leaving the hospital that night I caught a midnight show :)
2 amazing events in one day !
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: SpankRamen on February 08, 2008, 12:02:54 AM
 :D The Thing came out of your wife! :o
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: ramsey37 on February 08, 2008, 09:38:12 AM
I voted for the Thing as well.
George
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: The Drunken Severed Head on February 08, 2008, 02:27:58 PM
I voted for the thing for the same reasons Tom did. Plus I gotta weakness for the underdog.*










*And I think that Sweet Polly Purebred is HOT! (OMG, did I say that out loud?)
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: ProfGriffin on February 08, 2008, 03:02:31 PM
It....is going to kick some Marshall Matt Dillon butt.  The only real Thing movie was with Kurt Russell anyways. (Just kidding about that one, please don't ban me from this site.)

No worries. 
The only way to get banned from this site is if you commit some grievous sin against fellows members.  Like...uh, fabricate the re-release of a cool repo monster toy (like maybe a Creature from Black Lagoon Paint-By-Numbers set)  use some photo trickery to make it real and say you found it at local Hobby Stores sending scores of group members scurrying across their perspective towns wasting time and gas looking for the mythical thing.

Oh...wait a minute...
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: brandonslu on February 08, 2008, 03:38:26 PM
Hey..where can I find one of those?  Do you have a picture?
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: SpankRamen on February 08, 2008, 04:27:27 PM
We, seriously, need to get more people to come over here & vote. I want to have a real outcome of the bout. In some funny way, I'm ready to say, "Give the title to 'It'". I won't go there, though.
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: The Drunken Severed Head on February 08, 2008, 05:36:43 PM
Ya got yer basic It vs. Thing going here. Now, would you rather have yer It beaten or yer Thing beaten?
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: Nicole on February 08, 2008, 07:06:33 PM
This is what you guys get for KO'ing the Dracula VS Coffin Joe match. Now IT and the Thing are destined to forever remain locked in a stalemate.
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: SpankRamen on February 08, 2008, 07:15:59 PM
This is what you guys get for KO'ing the Dracula VS Coffin Joe match. Now IT and the Thing are destined to forever remain locked in a stalemate.

Yeah, but we all know that Z would win. So are we really missing out on anything?
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: Nicole on February 08, 2008, 07:17:54 PM
Yeah, but we all know that Z would win. So are we really missing out on anything?

Yes! See, then we could have already had a winner.
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: The Drunken Severed Head on February 08, 2008, 07:27:34 PM
The Drac vs. Joe fight was purposefully derailed. Being merciful here at the UNIVERSAL MONSTER Army, we wanted to spare you guys the sight of Coffin Joe crying and conceding because Drac broke one of his nails... ;)
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: SpankRamen on February 08, 2008, 07:34:10 PM
The Drac vs. Joe fight was purposefully derailed. Being merciful here at the UNIVERSAL MONSTER Army, we wanted to spare you guys the sight of of Coffin Joe crying and conceding because Drac broke one of his nails... ;)

Oh, hardy har har. ::)

It's simple. All Z would have to do is drag Ol' Dracky out into some nice sunlight & watch him turn to ashes. 8)
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: Nicole on February 08, 2008, 07:39:46 PM
The Drac vs. Joe fight was purposefully derailed. Being merciful here at the UNIVERSAL MONSTER Army, we wanted to spare you guys the sight of of Coffin Joe crying and conceding because Drac broke one of his nails... ;)

So, let me get this straight. Dracula plans to defeat Z by...breaking his nails? Great strategy there! I'm sure that will render him totally helpless. ::)

Oh yeah, I'm smelling Dracula barbecue.
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: SpankRamen on February 08, 2008, 08:01:09 PM
So, let me get this straight. Dracula plans to defeat Z by...breaking his nails? Great strategy there! I'm sure that will render him totally helpless. ::)

Oh yeah, I'm smelling Dracula barbecue.

Dracula wouldn't be able to get that close to Z, anyway. Remember, Z can just disappear & reappear somewhere else. Imagine: Z in Dracula's coffin, with a stake, just waiting for the perfect time to STRIKE! Shish Kabob funeral. 8)
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: The Drunken Severed Head on February 08, 2008, 10:17:34 PM
Dracula wouldn't be able to get that close to Z, anyway. Remember, Z can just disappear & reappear somewhere else.
Dracula wouldn't be able to get that close to Z, anyway. Remember, Z can just disappear & reappear somewhere else. 8)
)[/color]

I've seen enough vampire movies to know that they can disppear too, or turn into a mist. Trying staking a mist. ("OOPS! MISSED!") Besides, ol' Drac's got a powerful mojo workin' when you look into his eyes; I don't remember Coffin Joe being able to hypnotize with his gaze...  ;)
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: SpankRamen on February 08, 2008, 10:55:18 PM
)[/color]


I've seen enough vampire movies to know that they can disappear too, or turn into a mist. Trying staking a mist. ("OOPS! MISSED!") Besides, ol' Drac's got a powerful mojo workin' when you look into his eyes; I don't remember Coffin Joe being able to hypnotize with his gaze...  ;)


Dracula's eyes won't work on Z. When Z's eyes become bloodshot, your fanged friend would be wise to flee because Z will get buckwild. I know that Dracula can shape-shift. However, the rising sun puts your friend at a disadvantage. Dracula can't stay mist forever & Z will be waiting for his guard to come down. Z Do Caixo moves fast. Think about it: If spirits of the dead can't take my man down, what makes you think that Dracula has a chance? 8)
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: The Drunken Severed Head on February 08, 2008, 11:09:13 PM
Think about it: If spirits of the dead can't take my man down, what makes you think that Dracula has a chance? 8)

Ain't it sca-reeming-ly obvious why? 'Cause I'm a Universal Monster fan! ;)

Ready to march onward with my army comrades, blasting any lesser monsters and madmen in foreign lands* away with Invisible Rays, then stomping the resistance with asphalt-spreader's boots! Flaying the skin from their bodies! (Or as Bela would have said it, "frllng the skeins from their buddies!") Using the Creature to waterboard insurgents! Crushing them with Monolith Monsters! Putting gypsy curses on them! Grrrrrrrr! Fight, fight, fight!



*Anyplace outside of Hollywoodland!
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: SpankRamen on February 08, 2008, 11:20:52 PM
You love what you love as do I.
Z Do Caixo o numero um. Z mais forte!!!!!! ;D
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: Gary D Macabre on February 09, 2008, 03:26:19 PM
OK I appreciate that you enjoy Ze as you do.  But I suppose it is prudent do discuss what characterization of Ze do Ciaxao we are speaking of, as there definitely seems to be two separate incarnations.  The First would be the Character seen in At Midnight I Will Take Your Soul, and the This Night I Will Posses Your Corpse (and the upcoming yet unreleased film).  The Second would be the comic book character that seems to be prevalent in the subsequent films.  Now as I am only familiar with the three disk box set, I am forced to limit my appraisals to that source material.  Please keep that in mind.

Now lets look at this with all serious objectivity.
The Latter appears to be the one the public consciousness has embraced as the Brazilian Boogy Man which is an interesting paradox, and very much a contradiction of the former character.  A demonic fantasy character (and Lord of the assmen) (http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g75/GaryDMacabre/assmen.jpg) which exists in the minds of the delusional. I think this is an important distinction, he is not a physical character just a figment of the delusional psyche, which in himself offers no physical threat to the individual having the dreams beyond what there mind wants of him.  As the omniscient comic book host I quite like him, but cinematically this character to me is far less compelling (if not irritating in his contradictions, not only of the former characterization, but in his own dialog).  This is the Ze I believe by your earlier posts that you are more concerned with, Spank?

The Former is as he appears in the Soul and Corpse films. Being a classic horror fan, this is the CJ I enjoy, entwined in a traditional horror tale, presented with energetic inspired performances from Mojica. He is a sadistic and wholly self serving man with out ethics and a complete lack of a moral compass (I will not refer to him as evil, as his character loudly proclaims the absence of good and evil).  On top of that he is a delusional ego mainac. 

This I believe to be the legitimate and definitive Ze do Caixao.  To support this conclusion I first site the fact that Mojica has chosen this characterization for his most recent film rather than the fantasy version.  Secondly in the film Awakening of the Beast, there is a scene where he corrects one of the psychologists stating that he is Mojica Marins, NOT Ze do Caixao.  The Character of Ze Do Caixao was left in the swamp.  Perhaps Ray could offer any insight on which version of the Ze do Caixao character Mojica himself is more fond of?

That said the character in the first two movies proclaims himself to be immortal, but it is fairly clear that he does not mean in a physical sense as he, at one point in the film, is prepared to die at the hands of the hired thugs.  This character is a big fish in a small pond, terrorizing the people of the village, but is quite mortal.   At times however I'm sure the character does quite honestly believe himself to be immortal in body, but that is clearly a part of his fragile psychosis, as Mojica's direction clearly shows that he is no more than a mere man.  His path of immortality is through the passing of his genes to his progeny, and not his own physical existence.  I believe it is Ze himself that states the only truth to life is death. 

In both 'Soul' and 'Corpse' Ze goes on these wonderful rants shouting at God the Devil and the spirits of the dead calling them forth to strike him down.  Odd that a man so convinced of their in-existence feels need to compel them as such when in private?  Infact I would suggest that by his actions and his delusions he is not really convinced at all.  But I'll leave that debate to others schooled in matters of psychology.  What I can say for certain as it is on film, is that when the Ze do Caixao character is confronted with demons and the undead he completely breaks down.  Gripped in a paralyzing and all consuming terror.   

OK to the point. It is clear that the earlier portrayal of Ze do Caixao.  The Physical character would not be able to function if during his self justifying tirades on the in-existence of the supernatural the greatest of all the undead monsters arose from his grave to confront him.  And even if he were able to remain composed he would not be a physical match for a truly immortal being.  As Edward Van Sloan said in Dracula,  'A vampire's greatest strength is in peoples refusal to believe in them'  And I can't think of a character in all the genre more steadfastly opposed to believing in the existance of vampires and the undead than Ze do Ciaxao.

Now as for the latter incarnation of Ze it is my current understanding (Correct me if I am wrong here) that his existence is exclusively in a immaterial universe of the human mind. An in this universe he has all these wonderfully obtuse and obscure abilities such as appearing and disappearing instantaneously, shooting fire from the cuffs of his jacket (and commanding the butt people) (http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g75/GaryDMacabre/assmen.jpg) Where as the physical Ze do Caixo had none of this.  This does of course pose the problem that the character of Dracula is a wholly physical and visceral character and that the whole point and terrifying nature of the undead is there existence in our physical world.  So when we put the two  characters together in a physical sense the outcome is pretty obvious. Unless you suggest that the confrontation occur while Dracula is hopped up on LSD. (Or distilled water believing it to be LSD ignoring the fact his brain is already addled by long term drug abuse).

Now don't get me wrong I'm not belittling Ze, fact is they are wonderful movies and he is a wonderful and convoluted character which I too am a fan of.  But if I were to suggest a match between Dracula and Norman Bates (Psycho being my favourite "other" horror), I couldn't even remotely convince myself that the outcome would be anything other than in Dracula's favour.  The physical Ze do Caixao character is in great company with other human characters as the Phantom, Murder Legendre , Jeckyll and Hyde, and many others, but they are human.

Now if you would like to debate my conclusions in a manner which clearly describes your line of thought and reasoning behind your conclusions, I welcome it.

GD (who is in serious need of a life right now, I think I'll go spend some time with my kids) 
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: SpankRamen on February 09, 2008, 08:30:56 PM
You know what, Gary? I went to high school with guys just like you. One of those braniacs that say things like, "Let's assume that man can fly..." & then tries to make his point by using a physics equation! :P  Oh & correction. The Line goes: "I left Z Do Caixo in the cemetery. You're talking to Jose Mojica Marins."  8)

Anywho, since this is a pretend fight, I wanted to utilize all incarnations of Z Do Caixo just to make the fight more interesting. Now, I love the more solid Z. The Ze Do Caixao from the Midnight, Corpse, & the new Embodiment Of Evil. If I had to chose between the man & the hallucination, I go with Z as the man (Josefel Zanatas). I realize that this will take away his power to disappear, shoot fire, & control assmen :o (I have interesting thoughts about that, but anyway).

That being said, I do think that Josefel Zanatas could go toe-to-toe with Dracula. He spends most of his time terrorizing people. He can walk out in sunlight, use garlic, & I bet he's pretty handy with a stake. Really, the only thing that wouldn't work for Z is a Holy Cross because Z has no faith in Jesus Christ. Dracula is not completely invincible, he can be destroyed.
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: Gary D Macabre on February 09, 2008, 10:10:08 PM
You know what, Gary? I went to high school with guys just like you. One of those braniacs that say things like, "Let's assume that man can fly..." & then tries to make his point by using a physics equation! :P

Yeah so? Your point there is what?
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: Gary D Macabre on February 09, 2008, 10:33:33 PM
Any way back on topic.  I was going to vote for Thing, but in a punch out, knock down, hand to hand, mono-a-mono, Kids with action figures type Battle I couldn't see a vulnerability Thing could exploit, so I chose IT.
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: SpankRamen on February 09, 2008, 10:41:39 PM
Yeah so? Your point there is what?

My point was that your looong post about Z reminded me of those guys. ::) You seemed to be REALLY into it & went so far in depth, it took me back to the 90's. :D
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: The Drunken Severed Head on February 09, 2008, 11:06:06 PM
Gary, I thought your post was a thoughtful analysis. Thanks-- I enjoyed reading it!

Certainly Marins has created a very memorable character, even if it is one seen in two distinct manifestations.
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: Nicole on February 10, 2008, 11:44:23 AM
Now as for the latter incarnation of Ze it is my current understanding (Correct me if I am wrong here) that his existence is exclusively in a immaterial universe of the human mind. An in this universe he has all these wonderfully obtuse and obscure abilities such as appearing and disappearing instantaneously, shooting fire from the cuffs of his jacket (and commanding the butt people) Where as the physical Ze do Caixo had none of this.

Wow, Gary, I can tell you've been thinking about this a lot. I used to write stuff like that, but then I felt like a total nerd afterwards, so now I don't. But yes, there are two other films with this latter incarnation of Zé, which you should definitely check out, if you can find them: The Black Exorcism, and Hallucinations of a Deranged Mind. Black Exorcism especially, explores the line between creator and creation more than Awakening does, and both toy with the idea of Zé do Caixão taking on a life of his own, outside of the films.

Of course, I too prefer Zé as he was in the first two films. It is true that Zé could probably dish out a far more interesting fight in his omnipotent form, but I'm in agreement that he still stands a good chance against Dracula, even without supernatural powers and yes, without aid from the butt people (which, by the way, are actually martians). ;D
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: ramsey37 on February 10, 2008, 11:46:32 AM
It is true that Z could probably dish out a far more interesting fight in his omnipotent form, but I'm in agreement that he still stands a good chance against Dracula, even without supernatural powers and yes, without aid from the butt people (which, by the way, are actually martians). ;D

Martians? Funny, I thought they were from Uranus...;)
George
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: Nicole on February 10, 2008, 11:49:51 AM
Martians? Funny, I thought they were from Uranus...;)
George

Thank you, George. That was priceless.
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: SpankRamen on February 10, 2008, 12:14:04 PM
Martians? Funny, I thought they were from Uranus...;)
George

 :D I love you, George. Great one! Brilliant! :D
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: raycastile on February 10, 2008, 05:03:17 PM
The Coffin Joe seen in Black Exorcism and Hallucinations of a Deranged Mind has all the powers of his Awakening of the Beast incarnation, plus the ability to exist in the "real" world.  Like a character from The Purple Rose of Cairo or The Last Action Hero, the 1970s Coffin Joe is a movie character that steps out of the screen and comes to life in the real world.

I also consider Prof. Oaxiac Odez from The Strange World of Coffin Joe to be a legitimate incarnation of the Coffin Joe character.  Maybe he is the Z of the first two films who somehow survived the swamp, went into hiding, then emerged under a new identity.  Maybe (as Mojica's son, Cro, believes) he is an "alternate universe" version of Z.  I think the viewer is expected to make up his own mind, just as audiences can decide for themselves whether Count Alucard is Dracula or his son.

So there are several versions of Coffin Joe. 

1. The Cryptkeeper-style omniprescient overseer that appears in the comic books, television and every Coffin Joe film, including the first two.
2. The human megalomaniac from the first two films and the new film.
3. The alternate universe version of the human maniac, seen only in The Strange World of Coffin Joe.
4. The omnipotent Coffin Joe that exists in the human psyche, really a manifestation of the Cryptkeeper version, seen in Awakening of the Beast.
5. The materialization of the omnipotent Coffin Joe in the real world, seen in Black Exorcism and Hallucinations of a Deranged Mind.

There are also variants of Coffin Joe #5 in other films not directed by Mojica, including Strange Hostel of Pleasures.

Could any of these defeat Dracula?  Well, if Dracula can be defeated by old professors, monks and naive young lovers, surely he can be defeated by Coffin Joe.



Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: Tom Smith Monsternut on February 10, 2008, 07:27:18 PM
Maybe,, But Dracula always returns ! ;D
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: Nicole on February 10, 2008, 09:27:08 PM
Thanks for listing all those different incarnations for us, Ray. Even I had not considered some of those variants. You definitely know your stuff! I'm curious, would other Mojica characters such as Vitorio Palestrina and George Medeiros also be considered Coffin Joe variants, akin to #3? I know, Vitorio especially, exhibited a lot of Coffin Joe-esque perversions.

Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: SpankRamen on February 10, 2008, 10:01:51 PM
Thanks for listing all those different incarnations for us, Ray. Even I had not considered some of those variants. You definitely know your stuff! I'm curious, would other Mojica characters such as Vitorio Palestrini and George Medeiros also be considered Coffin Joe variants, akin to #3? I know, Victorio especially, exhibited a lot of Coffin Joe-esque perversions.



Vitorio Palestrina did indeed have a lot of Z-esque qualities. He's rich, womanizing, & has gotten away with some horrible crimes. I'm amazed that Z never bit a nipple or two, but tarantulas & snakes are more than enough. However, there is one MAJOR thing that separates the two. Vitorio has the ability to fall in love ('cause Veronica drove his ass up a wall ::)). Z sees love as a weakness (which is why Marcia couldn't be his baby-mama ;)).

I'm not sure if George has much in common with Z. Nicole, could you tell us what Z-like traits George possesses? I didn't notice any, but if you did, that would be cool.  
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: Nicole on February 10, 2008, 11:07:07 PM
Yeah, Spank, you're absolutely right. I think it was that whole thing with George being obsessed with his "experiments" and using acid to disfigure faces that reminded me of that scene out of "This Night..." Other than that, I guess they really don't have anything in common.

And I realize that Vitorio broke the "love is weak" rule, but if Oaxiac Odez can be a cannibal, then why not? The cool thing about the alternate universe characters, is that they exhibit some, but not necessarily all of the traits of the original character.
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: SpankRamen on February 10, 2008, 11:36:48 PM
You mean the part where Z poured that stuff on the girl's face & it became all gross? I never thought about that!

True about Vitorio & the whole love thing. I guess is an alternate or parallel universe, one of Z's incarnations could exhibit love.  
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: raycastile on February 11, 2008, 01:08:02 AM
I don't think the Perversion or Hellish Flesh characters are variants of Z do Caixo.  They are clearly "normal" humans with garden-variety psychological problems, inhabiting the normal world.  They have careers, friends, spouses, business associates.  They do not dress in black.  They do not spout Z's twisted philosophy.  They have normal names.  When the character is actually called Z do Caixo, backwards or forwards, then there is not much doubt who that character is.  When the character is deliberately unnamed (I don't remember the Hostel manager having a name), then it is safe to assume the director wanted to leave open the possibility that it is Z do Caixo.

So here are tips to determine whether a character played by Jose Mojica Marins is supposed to be Z do Caixo:

1.  The character says, "My name is Z do Caixo."
2.  The character says, "My name is Oaxiac Odez," or never says his name.
3.  The character dresses in black, has long nails and spouts Z's evil philosophy.
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: Nicole on February 11, 2008, 01:32:40 AM
You're right. Now I realize, that was a very silly question for me to ask. You have to overlook me sometimes. :D
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: raycastile on February 11, 2008, 04:15:01 AM
It is just a little bump on your journey toward perfection, a destination I have already reached.  But with your superior intellect, you will achieve it eventually.
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: drgangrene on February 11, 2008, 09:36:45 AM
13 voters so far, and IT is still in the lead. We'll leave this up for a bit lobger, see if we get a few more folks casting votes!
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: SpankRamen on February 11, 2008, 09:41:20 AM
It is just a little bump on your journey toward perfection, a destination I have already reached.  But with your superior intellect, you will achieve it eventually.

Oh, it will take me a bit longer. ;)
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: drgangrene on February 13, 2008, 11:30:00 PM
An unlucky 13 votes may be it! Oh well!
We'll leave it up for another week, see if anyone else votes.
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: SpankRamen on February 13, 2008, 11:33:20 PM
An unlucky 13 votes may be it! Oh well!
We'll leave it up for another week, see if anyone else votes.

Why bother? I say we just call it as is.
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: Nicole on February 13, 2008, 11:40:10 PM
Yep, I say give it a FIM.
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: SpankRamen on February 13, 2008, 11:48:15 PM
We might as well. I mean, honestly, It The Terror won.  
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: drgangrene on February 16, 2008, 12:54:56 AM
That's it, an unlucky 13 voters and It The Terror is the winner!
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: Nicole on February 16, 2008, 02:38:15 AM
Hurray! Three cheers for IT!
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: SpankRamen on February 16, 2008, 10:36:47 AM
Now I can play "We Are The Champions"! :D
Title: Re: The Amazing Monster Showdown - Final Bout - POLL
Post by: raycastile on February 16, 2008, 04:10:12 PM
I voted for IT, too.  Yay, IT.