Universal Monster Army

Chitter Chatter => General Discussion => Topic started by: Hepcat on March 02, 2021, 11:53:27 PM

Title: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: Hepcat on March 02, 2021, 11:53:27 PM
Dr. Seuss Enterprises, which holds the Dr. Seuss trademark and the copyrights to the much beloved author's works and thus accordingly licenses Dr. Seuss books and imagery for reproduction, announced Tuesday that it would cease publication of six Dr. Seuss books because of "insensitive" imagery. Here are the six:

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g434/Balticprince/(edited)_Dr._Seuss_4.webp?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)

Sad this modern day cancel culture. I remember taking great delight as a kid in McElligot's Pool, If I Ran the Zoo and On Beyond Zebra! together with the ten or so other Dr. Seuss books at my local library branch. McElligot's Pool is in fact still my very favourite Dr. Seuss book and I have a copy packed away somewhere. It's about what a young boy hopes to catch in the tiny neighbourhood pond. I'm sure the fish and other creatures portrayed in these delightful books will be relieved that his "hurtful" caricatures have been removed from the market.

I wish now I'd not dallied and had bought all of the Dr. Seuss books years ago.

 :(

Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: Joseph_Baeza on March 03, 2021, 12:28:34 AM
An absolute shame, Hepcat.  These cancel culture folks who are offended by Dr. Seuss, Mr. Potato Head and virtually everything else really need to get a life.   
Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: Mike Scott on March 03, 2021, 01:08:54 AM
Yeah, get over yourselves, six year old black kids! Who are you to spoil our fun? Be mindful of your place!

(https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2021/03/yerta.jpg)
Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: Sir Masksalot on March 03, 2021, 09:16:58 AM
I know it's a difficult concept to grasp but why can't people stop allowing outside forces to dictate
when they should choose to feel offended and assume some responsibility for their own attitudes?
Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: Mike Scott on March 03, 2021, 11:11:50 AM
I know it's a difficult concept to grasp but why can't people stop allowing outside forces to dictate
when they should choose to feel offended and assume some responsibility for their own attitudes?

Who's the outside force, here?
Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: Flower on March 03, 2021, 12:35:41 PM
It only took 70 plus years to figure out that the books were offending people .. err .. could be offending people if they looked hard enough.   ::)

I guess that these books upset folks who have principal bedrooms and no longer eat pancakes or use maple syrups because it might offend others.  :(
Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: Anton Phibes on March 03, 2021, 01:43:11 PM
People obviously didn't pay as much attention to things of this nature in previous eras, or had thicker skin perhaps? Doesn't mean it wasn't racially insensitive, but it was seemingly all over the place.  Invisible Ray, if viewed by some of these folks, would make the offended parties heads explode. Lugosi refers to a black child as a "little savage" and Karloff calls fully grown native tribesmen "boys". It, the Terror From Beyond Space would melt feminists and environmentalists faces off. As the female scientists serve the males coffee and food, and the men pollute Mars by "throwing a bunch of empty crates overboard". Howabout the Mask of Fu Manchu? Calling Asians "yellow devils". Plus, everyone smokes like freight trains in most older films. We all know smoking is a killer nowadays. Censoring everything isn't the answer. Just put the trigger warning on the potentially offending item (like Disney is doing). Learning from the mistakes of the past is how you grow. Erasing their existence is censorship.
Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: Mike Scott on March 03, 2021, 05:04:42 PM
Erasing their existence is censorship.

It's only censorship if the government is doing it to you. There's nothing wrong with people censoring themselves.
Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: Mike Scott on March 03, 2021, 05:51:36 PM
Again, UMA is the wrong place for this, so I'm going to ignore this thread and hope it dies out.
Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: Joseph_Baeza on March 03, 2021, 09:47:39 PM
Learning from the mistakes of the past is how you grow. Erasing their existence is censorship.
That sums it up perfectly, my friend.  On to more discussions about monsters and toys we love.
Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: zombiehorror on March 03, 2021, 11:28:59 PM
I just find it interesting that for decades conservatives were ok with censorship when it came to their code of morality but now that it's being done in the name of cultural sensitivity and inclusivity they are in an uproar over it.
Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: Anton Phibes on March 04, 2021, 12:40:29 AM
The six books in question weren't exactly the good doctor's most familiar. Til now. Check out ebay prices when you've the time. Now these books will forever be remembered. Probably far more than Green Eggs and Ham and The Cat in the Hat. I doubt this was the result they desired. No one cared before. Now they do. Funny thing about people, particularly Americans. When someone tells us we can't have something, even if we never desired it before they told us 'no', we then decide we want it. The same thing happened with Dukes of Hazard, and more recently with Cara Dunne figures from Mandalorian.  Everyone rushes out to make a museum of banned things as if they were V. Dr, Suess was a liberal, by the way. Just in case anyone cares. Check out his book on The Sneeches, as it gives a little insight as to how he felt about people. My favorite was "Are you my Mother?" by Eastman, released under the Seuss book club. I loved reading that to my son when he was a toddler.
Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: LundyAfterMidnight on March 04, 2021, 05:51:57 AM
I just find it interesting that for decades conservatives were ok with censorship when it came to their code of morality but now that it's being done in the name of cultural sensitivity and inclusivity they are in an uproar over it.

Exactly. It isn't "cancel culture" or censorship, it's respect. POC & LGBTQ people have been "canceled" for decades, centuries even. How much longer should they continue to endure insensitivity, discrimination & violence?? Life's been pretty good to you if you're actually feeling a sense of loss over pancake syrup & Dr. Seuss.
Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: Hepcat on March 04, 2021, 12:03:54 PM
It's only censorship if the government is doing it to you. There's nothing wrong with people censoring themselves.

While I agree with your overall sentiment, I'd rephrase your second sentence thus to avoid using the word censorship where you say it's not applicable:

"There's nothing wrong when people decide for themselves what to say and what not to say."

Never will I argue that the Dr. Seuss people are not within their rights to remove these books. I just think they're being supercilious at best. Just because a decision is within your rights doesn't mean that you can expect your decision to be free of public criticism or consequence.

In other words for governments to censor is unequivocally wrong because this involves force. (The key question is always where/how force is being applied.) As individuals we should all be free to express ourselves in whatever fashion. If however some other individual doesn't like what someone is expressing, he is also free to let that someone know what he thinks.

Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: Hepcat on March 04, 2021, 12:22:09 PM
I wasn't going to say anything more here but some of the discussion has now degenerated from underlying philosophical principles to blatant political shots:

I just find it interesting that for decades conservatives were ok with censorship when it came to their code of morality but now that it's being done in the name of cultural sensitivity and inclusivity they are in an uproar over it.

An oft repeated statement and a perfect example of a false dichotomy. Why the hell are you assuming that many of the same people (whom you cavalierly label conservatives) champion censorship on the basis of morality but are opposed to it on the basis of cultural sensitivity and "inclusivity"(your term not mine)?

Well I'm a fiscal conservative and I'm one and the same person in all cases. But let me tell you that I'm just as irritated by those who champion "family values" as I am by the "cultural sensitivity" crowd. (I'm not in the least religious, nor am I a prude and I believe in a very strict separation between Church and State. The "In God We Trust" phrase has no business being on the coinage.) A pox on both the "family values" and "cultural sensitivity" crowds (and here I'm restraining my remarks).

The dichotomy is actually between those who would stifle free expression and those who champion free expression.
Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: Hepcat on March 04, 2021, 12:59:01 PM
The six books in question weren't exactly the good doctor's most familiar.

But like I said, McElligot's Pool and On Beyond Zebra! are my two favourites on the basis of my own personal most cherished memories.

 :(
Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: Hepcat on March 04, 2021, 01:27:47 PM
Exactly. It isn't "cancel culture" or censorship, it's respect.

Nonsense. You know full well that "cancel culture" refers to people/organizations striving to remove imagery which anybody for whatever reason may deem offensive. That's the precise meaning of the term and the Dr. Seuss decision is a perfect example of cancel culture.

POC & LGBTQ people have been "canceled" for decades, centuries even.

"Cancelled?" Really? To be honest I'm not interested in arguing the details of this question. So long as you're not arguing for the passage or existence of laws giving more favoured treatment to any one group on whatever basis including historical I'll not argue. (And what's this very awkward newfangled "people of color" expression all about?)

How much longer should they continue to endure insensitivity, discrimination & violence??

Hold it right there! I saw you palm that card. Through the crude device of juxtaposition, you've attempted to equate insensitivity with violence. Well there's a vast chasm between the two. I should be free (of government coercion) to be as insensitive as I want (I'm under no obligation to be pleasant to others) and I will fight to defend that right. But no, I do not have a right to violence or to initiate force against any other individual. So your attempt at equating insensitivity and violence is at best intellectual dishonesty. At worst it's support of government mandated sensitivity. (And yes, I can give examples of such.)

Life's been pretty good to you if you're actually feeling a sense of loss over pancake syrup & Dr. Seuss.

Actually life's not that easy for any of us regardless of race. Yes, I was born a white male. But I recall no instance whatsoever where this automatically opened any doors for me. To get good marks at school I had to demonstrate my learning in exams. Being white didn't mean I was simply "passed through". Being white (with a name most linguistically challenged Anglos found impossible to pronounce) didn't help me to land jobs either. These days though, I can provide multiple examples of being discriminated against by government bodies because I'm a white male.

And as for life being "pretty good", have you been living on Earth this past year? And no, cancel culture has not just been an irritant (e.g. the loss of Dr. Seuss books, Uncle Remus and Brer Rabbit material both of which I treasured as a kid), but I've actually been emotionally devastated. I don't know whether you're a sports fan, but if you are you can understand identifying with favourite sports teams. Well last July I lost my beloved gridiron football team, the Edmonton Eskimos, which I embraced more than sixty years ago. I was devastated. I was filled with fury and hate for those who agitated for an end to my Eskimos and the sense of loss and emptiness I still feel won't disappear for many years. And I've now lost my favourite American League baseball team, the Cleveland Indians, as well.

What troubles me most these days is that those who decide to feel offended by whatever somehow feel that it's society's or someone else's responsibility to make changes so that they no longer feel offended. It's as if "the offended" somehow gain a more priviledged position because they've suffered "offence". What I don't understand is why those in a position to make the decisions don't respond with a shrug and the response "So? You're entitled to your feelings and I'm entitled to mine. You go on with your life; I'll go on with mine." My own more typically blunt response would be "Tough!"

 :(
Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: Anton Phibes on March 04, 2021, 03:34:15 PM
Check out this auction. It isn't mine. I wish it were. I don't have any Dr. Seuss books.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/All-6-Dr-Seuss-Banned-Books-Rare-In-Very-Good-to-NearMint-Condition/203295989593?hash=item2f55629f59:g:CCEAAOSwg0FgQPO1 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/All-6-Dr-Seuss-Banned-Books-Rare-In-Very-Good-to-NearMint-Condition/203295989593?hash=item2f55629f59:g:CCEAAOSwg0FgQPO1)
Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: skully on March 04, 2021, 04:26:20 PM
Yes,  I absolutely totally agree with Hepcat with his comebacks on this subject.  We need to get a grip on this because I fear it's not going to get any better.  Yes, I know what Mike has said, UMA is really not the place for these opinions, but, for crying out loud, this is now the world we live in, and even though we all love our monsters, there is no denying that a lot of this crap is surely taking a toll on us all,  there's hardly a day  that goes by now where a totally stupid or moronic statement is made or some totally absurd bill is trying to be passed.  Never in my life would I have thought I'd see the day where this nonsense would have caused such a barrier with our lives.  There are much bigger things down the road to be worried about.  This site is surely about monsters, but in the back of everybody's mind these frustrations mount, and it's tough to keep a lid on it.
Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: Anton Phibes on March 04, 2021, 04:44:24 PM
An older friend of mine (who sadly is no longer with us) was a WW2 veteran. He taught me a valuable life lesson. "Shrug stuff off like water off a duck's back". I thought that's how most people lived their lives, and that I was just wound too tightly. As I grew older, I applied his one sentence piece of advice to great success to my mental and emotional well being. Not to let the world's  "stuff" get too ingrained into my day to day life. Life's too short. Then a funny thing happened last year. Someone I considered a friend here at the UMA essentially accused me of being a racist in a private message. It bothered me. At first I just kind of poo pooed it. Then it started to anger me. I showed him a picture of my father and my best friend, and that ended the debate over race. The damage was done though. Someone/something is working hard to make people hate each other. This is supposed to be The United States. Division is bad. Common ground is good.  Here be monsters....the good kind. That's why I come to the UMA.
Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: Joseph_Baeza on March 04, 2021, 05:20:36 PM
My final thoughts on the subject.  What we are seeing today with cancel culture, outside of being ridiculous on so many levels, is really dangerous.  In fact, it reminds me quite a lot of McCarthyism in the 50's.  This idea that you need to cancel or try to erase anything you deem "insensitive" or "offensive" or "disagreeable" on it's face is completely un-American.  Where does it all end?  Do we cancel or erase all movies or TV shows that portray Native American Indians as savages?  Or should we cancel or erase all episodes of All in the Family due to some of the anti-Semitic language of Archie Bunker?  Or should we cancel or erase all episodes of The Jeffersons due to George Jefferson's constant use of the offensive term "Honky"?  Or should we cancel or erase all Looney Tunes cartoons featuring Speedy Gonzales or Pepe Le Pew for their stereotypical characterizations of the Mexican and French cultures?  Or should we cancel or erase episodes of Three's Company for John Ritter's take on being a gay man?

I think and hope you all get the point; there is no end to what can be deemed "insensitive" or in bad taste.  Obviously, things were very different 20/50/100/300 years ago and many of the things we see, hear, and read from those eras are products of those times.  The only way we can evolve as a people and a nation is to learn from the past, and not try to erase history like it never happened.  If we do that, we are doomed to repeat it.     
Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: zombiehorror on March 04, 2021, 06:27:28 PM
I wasn't going to say anything more here but some of the discussion has now degenerated from underlying philosophical principles to blatant political shots:

In short, if you can't see how conservatives have forced their moral code on society then I can't help you.
Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: zombiehorror on March 04, 2021, 06:32:44 PM
The only way we can evolve as a people and a nation is to learn from the past, and not try to erase history like it never happened.  If we do that, we are doomed to repeat it.     

History is not being banned by moving towards a more racial/cultural sensitive future no matter what work of fiction is being "banned".
Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: Hepcat on March 04, 2021, 07:09:07 PM
In short, if you can't see how conservatives have forced their moral code on society then I can't help you.

I neither see how conservatives have forced their moral code on society nor did I ask for your help. In fact, my bottom line when it comes to politics is my opposition to force. I'm strictly about voluntary relationships and the freedom to choose. So simple. You live your life, and I'll live mine. You make your choices; I'll make mine. How can you disagree?

But why did you introduce the entirely political subject of "conservatives" into this discussion anyway?  Why were you compelled to widen the subject beyond Dr. Seuss books to politics in general? I introduced the subject of the Dr. Seuss books because I remember taking delight as a kid in Dr. Seuss books in general and three of these books in particular. And now they're deemed "offensive"? This to me is exasperating silliness of the highest order.

And while the people who made this decision are absolutely acting within their rights, their actions nonetheless betray the mentality of book burners. Granted, book burners are also acting within their rights if they own the books they're burning, but they still deserve the approbation and scorn of the prudent man sector of society.

So, yes, it seems that the Dr. Seuss library is now under the control of book burners. And that's very sad, particularly because of my fond memories of Dr. Seuss books.

 :(

History is not being banned by moving towards a more racial/cultural sensitive future no matter what work of fiction is being "banned".

Of course history is not being "banned" by the book burners. But it is being swept under the carpet. And there's never a good enough reason to do so, whether that be "racial/cultural sensitivity" or any other.

  cl:)
Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: zombiehorror on March 04, 2021, 08:09:28 PM
Ha. For a guy that "wasn't going to say anything more here" it doesn't appear that you can stop.
Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: Mike...In 3-D! on March 04, 2021, 08:25:08 PM
This thread is close to getting the olí Tommy Jarvis!

(https://i.postimg.cc/JnymQZvy/E087199-F-6419-4404-9-A6-E-ACCFC1-FE6-D94.jpg)
Title: Re: Six Dr. Seuss books to be removed from publication!
Post by: Mike Scott on March 04, 2021, 08:39:17 PM
This thread is close to getting the olí Tommy Jarvis!

Good idea! Who has an Uma topic they'd like to talk about?