My definition of good I am now starting to think is very different than most. When I think of something as "good" it is because I enjoy watching it over and over again. Example, I can watch Howard Hawks The Thing over and over and I never get tired of it.
When it comes to westerns, I have discovered much to my dismay that friends have said this movie or that is "good" so on their recommendation I purchase the DVD. Then discover that while I don't think the film is necessarily bad it is not something I would watch over and over. I end up feeling like it was a waste of money to purchase the film when I should have just rented or borrowed it. Two recently, "There Will Be Blood" and "3:10 to Yuma", while both are good films I would not watch them over and over and might not even ever watch them again.
Since most of us are Classic monster fans we are used to classifying a film as "good" meaning yes, can't get enough of watching it again and again, and then classifying something as "OK, or reasonably decent" meaning yeah, watch it once but don't buy it unless you get it cheap in the bargain bin.
As for westerns, I look for a film I enjoy so much I want to watch it over and over and I also look for one more thing. Since I am a knife designer, dealer and collector I gravitate towards westerns that have knives in them. You would be surprised how many westerns do have knives used prominently then you would also be surprised how many that should but don't. Kind of weird.
Anyway, here is a short list of westerns that I feel are "good" by my definition, that is worth watching many times.
The Cowboys - I believe to be John Wayne's best film and should have garnered him an Oscar.
The Shootist - Not a typical John Wayne film, the scene where he is examined by James Stewart as the doctor was kind of unnerving but a very interesting departure from typical westerns and well acted.
Lonesome Dove - need I say more, probably the best western ever made. Has lots of knife play too.
The Alamo - the recent version. I am a huge Alamo historian and watching this film was like dropping a camera back into history and watching the events unfold. You could use this as a lesson for school.
The Iron Mistress - recently available on DVD. The very fictionalized and sensationalized story of Jim Bowie and the creation of the knife. As old as this film is it is well made, well acted and worth watching repeatedly. The scene of the creation of the knife is worth the price of the film.
Unforgiven - one of Eastwood's best and one of the films that brought westerns back once again.
Pale Rider - great twist on Eastwood's "man with no name" characters, if you know the film you will know what I mean.
Dead Man's Walk - a prequel for Lonesome Dove with exceptional performances of young Gus and Woodrow.
Young Gun's one and two - both awesome telling of Billy the Kid's story. Emilio Esteves was perfect in the role of Billy. Never get tired of watching him and the others in their roles here.
Tombstone - not a great film but Val Kilmer's Doc Holiday is a haunting portrayal and channeling of the character. Worth watching numerous times.
Outlaw Josey Wales - another Clint Eastwood masterpiece.
High Plains Drifter - yet another Clint great
Jeremiah Johnson - a Redford/Pollock team up and the quintessential mountain man film about Liver Eating Johnson. A slow film but can watch it over and over.
Glory - not a western per se but incredible Civil War film I never tire of watching.
Open Range - Got to be Costner's best, great film all around. Fun to see Robert Duval in the saddle again.
I know I said short list and considering how many westerns there are it is kind of short. Keep in mind these are all films I like watching over and over. That is the criteria I judge movies and whether they are good.
I would like to hear from other western fans and what films you think are worthy of repeated watching. Feel free to throw out some opinions as well about some of the aforementioned films.
Just FYI too, I am an Old West reenactor and I portray an 1880's Texas Ranger. I carry an 1875 Remington like Boss Spearman did in Open Range and also a ten gauge shot gun affectionately known as the "street Howitzer". Of course I have a vast array of knives, everything from originals to my own designs and I personally carry an "Iron Mistress" type bowie and a Samuel Wragg Civil War period boot knife.
I am always willing to chat up westerns, knives or guns and mightily bored you will be.
My faves
Outlaw Josey Wales
Tombstone
She wore a Yellow Ribbon.
The searchers
3:10 to yuma (original)
Appaloosa
Silverado
the alamo(john wayne)
Geronimo
THe Wild Bunch
The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean
Good the BAd and the Ugly
Jeremiah Johnson
John Fords My Darling Clementine.
Henry Fonda, Victor Mature, Walter Brennen.
In my opinion the best B/W western
ever made.
63Monsterkidd
The Searchers
Magnificent Seven
Little Big Man
Once Upon a Time in the West
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
A FIstful of Dollars
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
For a Few Dollars More
My Name is Nobody
Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid
The Wild Bunch
Ride the High Country
Stagecoach
Gunfight at the OK Corral
Hour of the Gun
Unforgiven
The Devil Rides a Horse
Open Range
Lonesome Dove
my fave westerns...
The Magnificent Seven
The Sackets
The Long Riders
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
High Noon
El Dorado
Sons of Katie Elder
Tombstone
Unforgiven
The Searchers
True Grit
Rio Lobo
Young Guns I & II
The Quick & The Dead(Sam Elliot one)
Hondo
Monte Walsh
The Wild Bunch
The Good,The Bad,& The Ugly
Lonesome Dove
The Alamo(John Wayne)
Stagecoach(John Wayne)
3:10 to Yuma(original)
Quigley down under
The Fastest Gun alive
McLintock
Red River
Joe Kidd
Hombre
Jeremiah Johnson
just to name a few, I'm sure there are others I am forgetting
Quigley Down Under - a great one, sorry I missed that and it is definately one that can be watched many times.
The Life and Time of Judge Roy Bean is an awesome film. I can watch it more than once but not sure about watching it over and over. That is one I would have to revisit perhaps once a year. Still a great film though.
Appaloosa was given to me as a download by one of the guys over here. I thought it to be quite amataur acted. The Rene Zellweger looked like she had way too much botox or something. Looked horrible. I did like Viggo Mortensen's character. I can tell you from shooting my ten gauge that shooting an 8 gauge would knock you on your south forty. Jeremy Irons just did not play a good enough bad guy in my opinion. Ed Harris is a good actor and did well enough in his role. I always like Lance Henrikson and I thought he was underused in this.
You know, he made a great little unknown western called Gunfighters Moon. I liked that he carried an original Chevalier Bowie knife. You never see those used in films. Kudos to the prop guy for getting that knife. This movie is not available on DVD anymore.
So I take it by the listed favorites these are all films that you could watch again and again? I enjoy going through the lists. I may find something I have never seen that I may want to check out.
Last but not least Deadwood was an incredible show that should not have been cancelled. Very gritty and realistic. If there ever was a person that needed killing it was Hearst.
Quote from: Wolf Man on May 20, 2010, 12:25:27 PM
Last but not least Deadwood was an incredible show that should not have been cancelled. Very gritty and realistic. If there ever was a person that needed killing it was Hearst.
Check out Timothy Olyphant's new show Justified (FX)! Not a period western but he definitely plays similar character as Bullock from Deadwood and the show has an underlying western feel, at least IMHO.
The Good, The Bad & The Ugly: One of my favorite non imagi-movies.
My favorite is two mules for sister sara
I agree about Zellwiger in Apaloosa, she was the weak link. But Harris was very good and Viggo was great. I am fond of the PArker books that spawned those characters too. I have to mention Chato's Land as well. One of Bronson's best and an underrated film.
I'm generally not big on westerns as a genre, but there are a lot that I love.
Stagecoach (textbook moviemaking)
Johnny Guitar
The James Stewart/Anthony Mann and Randolph Scott/Budd Boetticher series
Day of the Outlaw
Rio Bravo
Ride the High Country
For a Few Dollars More is my favorite of the Dollar trilogy
I tend to "like" the spaghetti westerns of Sergio Corbucci more than Leone's: Django, Minnesota Clay, The Great Silence, The Hellbenders
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
Quote from: MDG on May 20, 2010, 03:03:49 PM
The Great Silence
Thank you...I was trying to remember the name of that one, they rotate it on IFC every now and then. Great flick and worth a watch.
EL DORADO
SONS OF KATIE ELDER
CAT BALLOU (Hilarious!)
NEVADA SMITH (Steve McQueen)
DOC (Stacy Keach)
THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN
MORE DEAD THAN ALIVE
THE LONG RIDERS
KILL THEM ALL AND COME BACK ALONE (rare spaghetti western with Chuck Connors)
TRUE GRIT
I'm not a western fan but I liked Blazing Saddles.
Oh man, I love Westerns for the same reason I love Monsters - they validate and remind me of my happy childhood. We played "Cowboys and Indians" as much as we played "Army" (can you say violence? no wonder I love Monsters!) However - as a child I was mainly exposed to TV westerns: Sugarfoot, Johnny Yuma, Paladin, Bat Masterson, Maverick, The Rifleman. Not a huge Bonanza fan but Gunsmoke all the way.
I love all the movies mentioned previously and I'll add: Old Yeller and Savage Sam.
I also love The Alamo and along those lines the battles at Islanwana and Rourkes Drift. Highly recommended: Zulu and Zulu Dawn.
Now - knives. I haven't set out to collect knives but somehow I ended up with a cabinet full. My favorite type being two old school US Navy flight/survival knives with the floating handles, gray steel blades. They belonged to my Dad (ret.LCDR/fighter pilot, 86) I'll be happy to post a pic if you like.
Great topic!
Quote from: packy120353 on May 20, 2010, 09:51:05 PM
Oh man, I love Westerns for the same reason I love Monsters - they validate and remind me of my happy childhood. We played "Cowboys and Indians" as much as we played "Army" (can you say violence? no wonder I love Monsters!) However - as a child I was mainly exposed to TV westerns: Sugarfoot, Johnny Yuma, Paladin, Bat Masterson, Maverick, The Rifleman. Not a huge Bonanza fan but Gunsmoke all the way.
I love all the movies mentioned previously and I'll add: Old Yeller and Savage Sam.
I also love The Alamo and along those lines the battles at Islanwana and Rourkes Drift. Highly recommended: Zulu and Zulu Dawn.
Now - knives. I haven't set out to collect knives but somehow I ended up with a cabinet full. My favorite type being two old school US Navy flight/survival knives with the floating handles, gray steel blades. They belonged to my Dad (ret.LCDR/fighter pilot, 86) I'll be happy to post a pic if you like.
Great topic!
I would be interested in seeing the military knives....I also collect knives,daggers,swords.
Those sound like cool knives Packy. I have an extensive collection of WWI and WWII combat knives. I don't much care for the bayonets and only have a few but I gravitate heavy toward combat knives. I also have a number of survival knives including an original Vietnam issue pilot's survival. I don't have any though with floating handles.
At Old West reenactments we often have a "Quick and the Dead Contest" as in fast draw. We have had not only some fun moments with that but also some of the most hilarious. One of my oldest friends tried to cheat and have his colt cocked in the holster to gain a second. When he reached for it he blew a hole in his brand new gunfighter holster rig. We laughed so hard we almost peed ourselves.
Being a reenactor and a firm believer in authenticity I tend to gravitate toward newer westerns since more care is given to the authenticity.
Whenever I watch some of the older films I just cringe at how cartoonish and circus like some of those westerns are.
It is ironic that since they were so much closer to the actual western days in the early days of film making you would think they would have accidentally been more authentic. I can't even watch old episodes anymore of Gunsmoke, Bonanza or Big Valley and the like. Those were the days when they thought if you had on a westernish shirt, a hat, a gun belt and some sort of pointy toed cowboy boots you were a cowboy. By the way, pointy toed cowboy boots are a modern invention. The closest they came was around 1882 round toed boots came on the scene. Prior to that almost all boots were squared toed.
My Uncle was a Comanchero reenactor when I was just a spud. However, back in those earlier days of reenacting they weren't as authentic either. I remember his large bowie was just a store bought Western (name of the company and they still exist). My current Old West kit runs circles around his garb from back then. But, we do advance and evolve which is why I favor more recent westerns.
Wolf man- would love to see yer collection of WW I & II knives...
I collect WWII Memorablia as well....I have a WWII Japanese type 38 rifle, some Nazi coins, a German rifle cleaning kit,an Italian Bayonet,
two british helmets, Korean british helmet, American Vietnam helmet, an Iraqi helmet, and a Nazi Paratrooper helmet.
Also, my Grandfather's Purple Heart.
I am still in Kuwait but once I return home I can photograph my collection and post them. When we moved to our new house I placed my WWII collection in numerous totes seperating my British, American and German stuff. My knives are in a seperate tote. I also have a lot of original British Commando Daggers plus a wide array of WWII firearms. I am returning home this summer to organize all my stuff and then I can take pictures. I also plan to hit a few good reenactments as well. I am thinking about getting a new tent. I am a tent dealer and have several tents already but am getting in the mood for something new. Come to think of it, I could be considered a tent collector too. I have a German Zeltbahn tent, US pup tent, Civil War Officers Wall tent with fly, a Civil War "A" tent and two Viking tents. Wow, never thought of it before. I have a few tents! I was fortunate to purchase a lot of my stuff many years ago when they were cheaper. For the prices things go today I doubt I would buy as much. It helps to be a dealer for many different areas. Keep that in mind if any of you are ever looking to pick up new things or if you ever want to join the ranks of the reenactors.
Here is a pic of one tough Texas Ranger: (Its me)
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii167/Kyrel-Dak/DSC00509.jpg)
Don't watch a lot of 'em, but I do love the 'Bs'!
I could watch Tim Holt - Richard Martin flicks all day-
(in fact, I think I will) ;)
True Grit
The Sons of Katie Elder
The Searchers
Big Jake
The Shootist
Quigley Down Under
Two Mules For Sister Sara
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
Blazing Saddles
Evil Roy Slade
and many others too numerous to mention
Sorry this took so long - slices roast beef so thin your in-laws will never come back...
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4025/4633619051_acfa742563_o.jpg)
Packy,
The knife like the one on the right I have had for about thirty five years.
My Dad gave it to me when I used to spend a lot of spare time in the woods.
He bought it at the Army Navy surplus store. Since my Dad has been gone for over thirty years
and it was one of the last things he gave me ,it is one of my prized possessions.
Cool Avenger! My Dad also gave those to me. He flew Hellcats and Corsairs off the USS Cabot (Wake Island) in WWII and Helos in Korea. He's 87 and is one of the increasingly few attendees at his tailhookers reunions every year. Still kicks ass. Here he is last month with me and some of my brothers on our Bahamas cruise. He made the ship's Officers salute him. Chick magnet. Got me into monsters. Say no more.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3409/4634362738_5d40b09f83_o.jpg)
Quote from: packy120353 on May 23, 2010, 09:27:33 PM
Sorry this took so long - slices roast beef so thin your in-laws will never come back...
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4025/4633619051_acfa742563_o.jpg)
Nice Packy...like 'em alot.
Nice Packy,
I have both of those in my collection along with the Vietnam version which is longer but looks the same. Are those Ontario Knife comany or Camillus? Do you know the makers, should be written on the pommel nut.
Here is just a fraction of my collection.
These are my own designs, limited editions based on historical bowies:
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii167/Kyrel-Dak/ip202-1.jpg)
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii167/Kyrel-Dak/IP-203.jpg)
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii167/Kyrel-Dak/IP-201.jpg)
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii167/Kyrel-Dak/oceanfrontandhouse005.jpg)
Next is an original amputation knife AKA the type that "Jack the Ripper" supposedly used
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii167/Kyrel-Dak/BpMfcewBmkKGrHqYOKj4Et18hh1BLqUitRW.jpg)
Here are just a few of my Damascus Knives: Camel Bone Handles
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii167/Kyrel-Dak/Bq34LgB2kKGrHqQOKjgEudE6H-RBLPrUTVB.jpg)
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii167/Kyrel-Dak/dscn0878.jpg)
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii167/Kyrel-Dak/BZgcTiCGkKGrHgoH-EMEjlLlt44QBKnCRms.jpg)
Here are a few miscellaneous knives I have:
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii167/Kyrel-Dak/BZQupBmkKGrHgoOKjoEjlLmRkbZBKlyRYlK.jpg)
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii167/Kyrel-Dak/b62d_1.jpg)
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii167/Kyrel-Dak/BpzYkOg2kKGrHqUOKjMEut3UTuNBLs89Ej4.jpg)
My Safari Knife:
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii167/Kyrel-Dak/BrQiioB2kKGrHqEH-C8EvDWZQSUBLy5jwIu.jpg)
My new John Wayne Alamo Bowie carried by Richard Widmark as James Bowie: this is an ad shot
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii167/Kyrel-Dak/BtTmEHQCWkKGrHqMOKjEEvUBhnBL7ZZnmY6.jpg)
This one is a copy of the Alamo knife used in the recent movie carried by Jason Patrick as James Bowie, this is made by the same guy who made it for the film: Although my design of this knife above is more historicaly accurate to the original knife. Note the subtle differences
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii167/Kyrel-Dak/knifeanddori003.jpg)
These are some of my original vintage bowies:
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii167/Kyrel-Dak/BrvQvzB2kKGrHqMH-DkEvDblpdyjBL1DTTJ.jpg)
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii167/Kyrel-Dak/BsSiN2wEWkKGrHqEH-D0EvDpTHTUJBL30H-.jpg)
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii167/Kyrel-Dak/BqGPUlgBWkKGrHqUH-D0EuZJczEW3BLuR4U.jpg)
GLENN FORD...... THE FASTEST GUN ALIVE...OH YES ALSO.... THE GOOD .THE BAD. THE RECASTER'S . HA HA ICEMAN ........
Those knives are really sharp ;D.
Wolf man...nice ;D collection.....excuse me as I whipe the drool from my mouth...
To my great pleasure, ENCORE7 is now a western movie channel. I watch it constantly. I love the spaghetti westerns in particular.
Lee Van Cleef is my man. If he's in it----I'm watching.
God's Gun is a cheesy B flic with Van Cleef playing identical brothers. Jack Palance is the antagonist. If you like B westerns, watch it.
Great collection,Wolfman !!
How many knives do you have in total ?
Thanks for sharing.
Those are some great knives Wolf Man...
Thanks. As for how many I have that is a truly scary question. My wife would say too many. Actually, to be fair she is pretty supportive of me buying knives. She was the one who recommended I become a dealer and open a store. I began by selling period knives at reenactments. We noticed however it was always the public who was buying most of the knives so I opened a store and ran it for five years. I closed it down and put everything in storage when I left for Iraq. I am still a dealer though for most knife companies.
Being a dealer brings with it a dilemna as a collector. I have a tendancy to want to buy all the cool stuff that comes out because I get the dealer cost for a price. I have to really restrain myself and think about each one and if I really want it or just think it is cool looking.
I have so many knives I probably can't get an exact count. I have a substantial collection of swords and battle axes as well. A large collection of spears too. Plus many firearms. It will be an e-bay nightmare for my wife when I kick the bucket although she will probably end up rich when the last piece sells.
I have been at it and collecting since I was a teenager.
I also have the Mk III Utica that my Grandfather carried in WWII. He was a tank driver in Pattons third Army.
The knives you see in the photo that I designed, I have two of each model and those I got at no cost as part of my compensation for designing them. Those are the prototypes.
One day I should really attempt to photograph all my knives. It could be useful as well for insurance purposes.
If there is a knife or sword that any of you like there is a good chance I have one. Feel free to ask away any questions about edged weapons.
As a reenactor what I love most about collecting is fitting the right knife, sword, spear or gun into the right time period.
When the Wolfman came out it sent me into a frenzy to finally aqcuire the Webley pistol. Guns and knives are natural accessories for any man in almost any time period. It is also a curse because when a movie company uses the wrong kind from the wrong time period then it is like seeing a cowboy with a ray gun. It just does not fit the time period.
Most Westerns use a holster rig called the Buscadaro (not sure how to spell it). This is a very low slung holster rig invented by Hollywood to create the "fast draw" illusion and is usually tied down on the leg. These rigs are not authentic to any western period and stick out like a sore thumb. The same goes for many of the costumes in earlier westerns. In recent films now they are doing much better with the costumes, holster rigs, knives and all other authenticity facets of the production. This is why I always gravitate towards the newer "period" productions rather than some of the old stuff, classic though they may be.
SO, here is a question for everyone, is there a gun or knife in any Western that "really" caught your eye and you wish you owned?
I dont know about a certain gun or knife, but I'd love to have the "War Wagon"....
Then again,there is Jim West's boot toe knife....or even Maverick's hidden Derringer mechanism up the sleeve..
I have never seen a "real" boot toe knife. Saw one in the movie Roadhouse. Most gadget guns and knives simply don't work. The only one I know worked was the Soviet ballistic knife which is now against federal law. That was a spring loaded number that shot out of a tube with a pretty high velocity.
In the real West, gamblers usually carried push daggers which ironically is the one knife I don't own. I have sold lots of them but have yet to find what I would call a good reproduction of an authentic piece. For modern knives Cold Steel makes two of the best push daggers, extremely sharp from the factory. Gamblers and low lifes also carried small caliber pistols. Often single or double shot and very concealable. I own a Harrington and Richards original dated 1904 I believe. This is a top break and a great little pistol. I can't say how many times I have used this with blanks at reenactments as my trick gun. I would have it behind my back and while I looked as if I were going for my large Remington whirl this around and blast away. This is a double action pistol so you just pull the trigger and fire away. I love the reaction when my enemies are fooled and get blasted. Ah, trickery. Of course, sometimes I dispense with the trickery and just come out of the tent with my ten gauge. Usually they run just from seeing it. Reenacting Old West is as fun as it can be I assure you.
I will be interested to see the Coen Bros Reboot of True Grit with Jeff Bridges as Rooster Cogburn. I usually hate remakes, but I do like the COen's films for the most part and wonder what they can bring to this story. Supposedly it is much closer to the book by Charles Portis.
I did not know they were making that. I will love to see what they come up with. I bet the film will at least be much more authentic with clothes and accessories. Interesting. Do you think Jeff Bridges is the best choice though. I like him as an actor but wouldn't Robert Duvall make a better Rooster Cogburn?
Has anyone seen the little known Jeff Bridges film called Bad Company? That is one of the most authentic westerns evern and has one of the most realistic shootouts in a film. By realistic I don't mean great with perfect shots, I mean lots of things going wrong and the shootout is hilarious although perhaps unintentionally. I own the DVD. It is slow at times but gritty and realistic. Good plot line too. Check it out.
I'm not a knife collector (Lord knows I collect too much stuff as is!) -- but I'm finding the info and pics posted here interesting -- especially the facts on the real thing as opposed to the Hollywood versions.
Nice to know so many here also like Westerns. I'm grateful for the new technology that has given us DVD and widescreen TVs. So many Westerns rely on the widescreen format, that watching them "pan and scan" on standard TV was always frustrating. It's a thrill now to see something like "The Magnificent Seven" on my home screen in the proper ratio -- instead of being stuck with "The Magnificent Three and a Half." Great time to be a film fan.
As far as western movies go, Winchester '73 is one that I can watch over and over. While it may not be a true western, Treasure of the Sierra Madre has all the same elements that make a great cowboy flick. I also like A Man Called Horse and Little Big Man.
"The Magnificent Three and a Half" how durned funny. I know what you mean. I can't stand pan and scan either. The Cowboys and the Alamo are much better on big screen with the right ratio and I know there are others too.
Here is a little known fact. When you look at the pistols you can tell what is authentic and what is modern by looking at the hammer when it is cocked. The Old West pistols had a pin on the hammer that struck the shell. Modern "western" pistols like the Ruger Vaquero which is meant to "look" like a cowboy era firearm has a firing pin in the frame rather than on the hammer. You usually see these type firearms on cheap B grade films because they don't have the luxury of a decent technical advisor. I have been a Tech advisor on a number of films for my expertise on clothing and weapons of WWII and Old West.
Here is one too that we often debate, this goes for knives, guns and clothing. When a film uses original pieces there is an antique look to them. My ten and twelve gauge shotguns for example are originals and really have that antique look to them that comes with age. However, if I lived in 1878 and purchased my ten gauge, well, the darn thing would have been brand new and not looked antique. So, when you watch a film, does it look better to have new made reproductions since many of the knives, guns and clothes would have been new at the time or would the look of the film be better using the antiques which gives us a real feel for authenticity?
Now, here is another facet to consider as well. If you lived back then and bought something brand new I can assure you that it did not stay that way for long. Just exposing one of my knives once to the elements and it began to tarnish and pick up surface rust. That was only over a one weekend reenactment. Therefore, a cowboy for example would have been fighting night and day to keep his weapons dry and rust free. Plus, clothes wear out fast when you wear the same thing for a month. I have seen a mixture of antique weapons along with new made reproductions and that seems to be a good blend. In Open Range, which I am watching now the pistols are new made reproductions while the shotguns look original and the Winchester's are new made repro's also. Seems to be a pretty good blend. Although I wear a new made but historically acurate knife I still think the antiques have that better look of age. I know how to age things and have them look more original but I sometimes can't bring myself to deliberately rust up one of my knives. I have a few orignals so that helps, I can always switch to one if the need arises.
I love "Little Big Man" and just watched it the other day. I love films that are grand in scale like that one. The film has such a good mixture of humor but then the sobering moment of the Wacrapa River massacre.
I noticed no one has mentioned Silverado. I was debating whether to buy that one or not. What do you think of the film? I have seen it a number of times just never bought it.
Winchester 73 was one of my favorites as a kid. I have not watched it probably since. I always liked James Stewart over John Wayne, although that was due to Big John's earlier work. With the Cowboys and The Shootist I would say John still had it while James Stewart was showing his age more.
Anyone see the Gunfighter? With Kirk Douglas VS Johnny Cash? Critics really blasted that film and you can't buy it on DVD but I always thought that was a good western.
the Fastest Guitar Alive Trailer 1967 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajagt3U2rRQ#)
I didnt mention Silveraldo for the same reason,I didnt mention Wyatt Earp...I just dont like Costner in the Westerns..
Now Silveraldo had some other okay characters,but all in all, it just wasnt a good movie....
I also have seen Bad Company, and liked it.
I watched a Western the other day that had teenage/20 something, Ron Howard,Charles Martin Smith,and another kid actor(cant remember his name) and I think either Lee Marvin or James Coburn played it in too.
These 3 boys help out an outlaw who is wounded(Lee or Coburn),and eventually the 3 boys run away from their homes, and get into some trouble.
It's not the greatest acting,but it's not too bad.
Wolf Man- how about Wanted:Dead or Alive's sawed off winchester?
(http://www.storeplay.net/oscommerce/catalog/images/WANTED%20DEAD%20OR%20ALIVE%20SET.jpg)
First, I know the film you are talking about and remember liking it but I too can't remember the name.
I take it the Winchester is your's? Is it a firing reproduction or a non-firing? Pretty cool rig. Along those lines what did you think of the twenty gauge cut down in Lightning Jack? The one Cuba Gooding Jr. uses? That was one cool gun too.
The one thing I wonder about a sawed off Winchester is that thing has to have an intense kick to it. That kind of thing could break a person's hand. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has ever shot anything like it. I know I can't shoot my ten gauge one handed even with blanks.
One of my favorite scenes in a movie period is when Boss Spearman fires the ten gauge at the guy creeping along a wall in Open Range. That is how a person's body would react to a double barrel ten gauge at point blank range even through a plank wall. I laugh every time I see that scene. That is firepower. Why it is called the street howitzer.
Quote from: Wolf Man on May 25, 2010, 08:29:43 AM
I did not know they were making that. I will love to see what they come up with. I bet the film will at least be much more authentic with clothes and accessories. Interesting. Do you think Jeff Bridges is the best choice though. I like him as an actor but wouldn't Robert Duvall make a better Rooster Cogburn?
Has anyone seen the little known Jeff Bridges film called Bad Company? That is one of the most authentic westerns evern and has one of the most realistic shootouts in a film. By realistic I don't mean great with perfect shots, I mean lots of things going wrong and the shootout is hilarious although perhaps unintentionally. I own the DVD. It is slow at times but gritty and realistic. Good plot line too. Check it out.
After seeing Jeff in Crazy Heart I have no doubt he will be fine as Rooster. I wouldnt have minded Kurt Russell in the role either.
I have never seen Crazy Heart. I remember Jeff as Wild Bill and from Bad Company. Hadn't thought of Kurt Russell. For Rooster though the actors that come to my mind are those already well known for Cowboy roles. I guess it could be argued that both Kurt Russell (Tombstone) and Jeff Bridges from several are somewhat known for cowboy roles. What about Tommy Lee Jones?
nah,the winchester isnt mine, I found the pic googling "Wanted:Dead or Alive".....
I never shot a 10 gauge one handed, but I did shoot a 18" sawed off 12 gauge one-handed,just to prove to friends I could...
but, what's really fun shootin one handed, is a sawed off 4-10..
I always wanted to be part of the Old West Gunfighters reenactments, we have a group of guys in a nearby town that reenact gunfights
at an old west town they built,"Snake River Junction" in Marlow,Oklahoma.
It's centered around the events of the Marlow Brothers.
The Movie "Sons of Katie Elder" is based on the Marlow Brothers..
You SHOULD get involved in the reenactments. They are a blast, no pun intended. Although I have had a lot of fun shooting the guns and such I enjoy the camping most. I do a lot of campfire cooking, and just general hanging around my camp site. Most reenacting centers around a period encampment and just enjoying the comraderie of others who share the same interest. It is a very wholesome hobby and great for kids. I brought my five year old nephew to Antietam, a Civil War event and had him dressed up as a little cowpoke. He was the hit of the place and could not take five steps without someone wanting his picture. He was a tiny kid but I had all the right stuff on him. I even bought him a bowie knife. I ground down the tip and filed the edge so it was not sharp in any way and I found the perfect little cap gun that was a smaller copy of my 1875 Remington pistol. So he was really dressed to the hilt, even had little spurs on his boots. I have pictures at home and plan to dig them out, scan them and put them on the computer so I can post them. Talk about looking like a mini me. All the ladies just wanted to sop him up with a bisquit.
Never a lack of interesting topics here at UMA! I've been watching more westerns lately myself; I'm definitely getting more nostalgic as time goes by. Last weekend I watched The Shootist for the first time. I really enjoyed it. Of course I've always liked John Wayne; I could probably watch him eat a sandwich and be entertained.
I know nothing about knives, but I did see an episode of Deadliest Warrior the other day where they had the James Gang (the outlaws, not the band) face off against Al Capone's gang, and the Bowie knife was pretty damned frightening in the amount of damage it did to a pig carcass.
My Mother's side of the family is full of "Southern Rabble" and Native Americans . . . my Grandmother once told me we were related to James Younger but that all of the photos/papers connecting us were lost in a house fire ages ago.
Quote from: Wolf Man on May 25, 2010, 01:14:26 PM
I have never seen Crazy Heart. I remember Jeff as Wild Bill and from Bad Company. Hadn't thought of Kurt Russell. For Rooster though the actors that come to my mind are those already well known for Cowboy roles. I guess it could be argued that both Kurt Russell (Tombstone) and Jeff Bridges from several are somewhat known for cowboy roles. What about Tommy Lee Jones?
TOmmy Lee would be great too. or Sam Elliot for that matter. Dude, watch Crazy Heart, Jeff does his own vocals and it will tear yer heart out. MAggie Gyllenhall is in it too and is always girl next door sexy. As for Westerns I had high hopes for the Jonah Hex movie, but I guess we will see. I have a couple of friends that have seen early showings and they were not impressed.
Moonshadow, there are many laws still on the books about Bowie knives specifically named. Many of these laws date back to the 1700's and 1800's. The reason so many laws were made against these knives was the massive amount of tissue damage they caused and that they almost always caused death.
As a designer of Bowie knives I have studied the affects of these blades and yes they are very deadly. The first one shown in my photos for example has a very pronounced clip that is sharpened for the back slash. The tip of the blade starting at the clip is like an eagle talon and will naturally draw into a wound, then when withdrawn it will cause significant damage on the way out as well.
Bowie knives were meant to be back up weapons to the flintlock single shot pistols and rifles of the day. A person would often only get one shot off before the enemy was on them and the knife had to be drawn. Of course, a knife like this was also very useful for building shelters and camps as well.
The Bowie knives of the "Cowboy" period were much smaller and less deadly without sharpened clips and such because the firearms were much more developed and the knife relegated to utility use rather than a weapon. Still, there were some hold outs who continued to carry the larger knives including the Texas Rangers.
The Bowie knife is part of Americana history and on kind of a personal note I think every red blooded American male should own at least one. It is the American version of King Arthur's Excalibur. Before I get stomped on too by our Ladies, yes my wife owns several as well. Of course, she prefers them a bit more dainty and slender.
I have two Westerns on order that should be here soon, Silverado and The Quick and the Dead (Gene Hackman version).
I have been thinking about this a lot though lately which Western I think is best all time. I would have to say for a theatrical film Open Range, with Unforgiven a close second but including TV then I would go with Lonesome Dove. I know some don't care that much for Kevin Costner and I would say he has made a few less than good films but Open Range is about as good as a western can get. I can't think of a single way the film could have been better.
As for John Wayne films I would say the Cowboys was his finest performance in a Western. I like many others but that one really stands out. I also think it is better than True Grit and Rooster Cogburn. High Noon may be the best though among classic westerns although there are many that can give it a run for its money.
Any thoughts?
Thanks for the Bowie knife history info . . . it's always reminded me of the Norman/Saxon "Scramasax" but I'm sure there are many other historic/cultural influences.
I have also designed a Scramsax for a California company many years ago. I own a lot of them also called the seax. One of my favorites is a small one with celtic knotwork carved into the bone handle. That one is not a fighter but more of a utility piece. I have some very large fighters though as well. The Unique thing about a Bowie is that prior to Jim Bowie, although there was the straight down angle of a Sax and there were other knives with either a spear point or drop point there really weren't any with large pronounced clip points like the Bowie. That is the primary defining feature of a Bowie is a pronounced clip. Far too often people who don't know better call all sorts of daggers, spear points, butcher styles, skinners and others Bowie knife simply because they don't know the defining features of one, mainly the large clip point. It kind of frustrates me when you pull a search for a Bowie and you get all sorts of "non" Bowie knives coming up. People just love to throw the name Bowie on it to make it more appealing. I have a number of cool daggers and am perfectly happy to call them a dagger.
Recently my roomate over here mentioned the Western Rio Grande as one of the best. I have never seen this film. What do others think of it? Any good?
I have a small "seax" from Chen/Hanwei with a stag horn handle . . . it's basically an everyday-type piece and I like it very much.
Anyway, back to Western flicks. While not a cowboy movie, per se, Treasure of the Sierra Madre has all the elements I look for in a good Western. Dead Man is another modern effort that I enjoy.
Open Range??....really??...the only good thing about Open Range was that Robert Duvall played in it.
The Gunfight was the most exciting thing in the movie.
Unforgiven-with Eastwood and Hackman, was an excellent western,but imo....Tombstone was the best Western.
with "Lonesome Dove" coming in second, and "The Sacketts" coming in at third.
The top 5 actors to portray Cowboys are...
1.Sam Elliot
2.Tom Selleck
3.Robert Duvall
4.John Wayne
5.Ben Johnson
Val Kilmer as Doc Holiday get's a honorable mention.
Quote from: packy120353 on May 23, 2010, 09:59:13 PM
Cool Avenger! My Dad also gave those to me. He flew Hellcats and Corsairs off the USS Cabot (Wake Island) in WWII and Helos in Korea. He's 87 and is one of the increasingly few attendees at his tailhookers reunions every year. Still kicks ass. Here he is last month with me and some of my brothers on our Bahamas cruise. He made the ship's Officers salute him. Chick magnet. Got me into monsters. Say no more.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3409/4634362738_5d40b09f83_o.jpg)
"COOL" knows no age limits.
Watched Hang 'Em High and The Good, The Bad and The Ugly today.
Quote from: Sean on May 31, 2010, 05:58:37 PM
Watched Hang 'Em High and The Good, The Bad and The Ugly today.
Awesome flicks!!
I have to give a shout out for Tim Holt, Hollywood's true fastest draw! Besides the great TREASURE OF THE SIERRA MADRE, his B flicks he put out for RKO in the 40's and 50's were always a cut above the many other B "oaters" other studio's were releasing, IMO.
Tombstone has a cult following and fans of westerns often like the film well enough but when it first hit critics hated it saying that the film sent westerns straight back to boot hill. I have mixed feelings about this film. It has moments and Val Kilmer's Doc Holiday but has way too many cliche's and cheese.
Open Range seemed to me to be the most realistic "how it really was" type films to come along which is also why I like Unforgiven.
Folks like westerns for different reasons which accounts for those liking different styles. I have a tough time watching some of the older classics because they are so "NOT" how it really was. But then again, that is why some people simply love the films, they are more fantasy than reality so good escapist fare.
With Westerns like Deadwood, Open Range, Lonesome Dove, and Unforgiven we get a raw grittyness and a sense of watching events unfold as they really might have true to life. The recent Alamo film was like that. From a Historical stand point the film was like watching the events with a camera placed in the middle of the true events unfolding. From an exciting rousing shoot em up, full of patriotism unrealistic Hollywood production it falls flat and the film failed miserably. Yet it still stands as the best Alamo film ever made and could be shown to school kids as here you go, this is how it happened.
As for actors portraying Cowboys, I have no problem with who you have listed but would add Kevin Costner (although most might disagree with this one) and Tommy Lee Jones who as Woodrow Call has created one of the most copied by reenactors and cowboy enthusiasts characters in history and Clint Eastwood would beat out most on your list and would rival John Wayne as a Western Icon.
My point is, when it comes to westerns, there are those in group A like myself that want to watch the most realistic type films that show how it really was and those in group B that like westerns for action, excitement, escapist fare where the good guy wears a white hat, always wins and gets the girl in the end. There is good reason to like the films made that way so it is not a knock but when you watch a film like Bad Company you see what most fans of westerns would call boring but this is how it was. Life was not pretty, it was harsh mean and full of the unexpected. In Bad Company, when the settler offers up his wife to the group of guys to make some money out on an empty prairie you get the sense this is perhaps the only way for the couple to make money and purchase supplies to eat.
I also think it is almost imperative to seperate Classic Westerns from modern ones just due to the difference in style between the unrealistic but rousing fun, to the realistic and perhaps less exciting. There are fans of either or both and all has merit.
It was Clint's 80th b-day yesterday. TCM showed the Spaghetti western trilogy along with a slew of classic Eastwood movies.
I think the "Long Riders" is a very good and close to accurate portrayal of the James-Younger gang's gritty outlaw lifestyle.
I also like that they used real brothers to play the parts..
Kevin Costner makes a good cowboy as well as he makes a good Robin Hood (yeh, I was being sarcastic there)
I like Costner,but not as a Cowboy or Robin Hood.
I also like "Barbarosa"
"Blood on the moon"(1948)
"Hondo"
"The Wild Bunch"(1969)
Ahhh, westerns. I LOVE THEM. My favorite genre (along with horror) I could watch them all day..and on occasion I have, and I could talk about them for hours (and I have,,much to the dismay of some friends) Here are my favorite movies:
1."The Good The Bad and The Ugly"- Clint Eastwood
2. "The Searchers"- John Wayne
3."The Magnificent Seven"-Yul Brynner
4."For A Few Dollars More"-Eastwood
5.Rio Bravo" -Wayne
6."Winchester "73"-James Stewart
7."Silverado" -Scott Glenn
8." Lonesome Dove"- Robert Duvall
9."High Plains Drifter"- Eastwood
10."3:10 to Yuma"- Glen Ford (the original film, but the remake is great)
11."Tombstone"- Kurt Russell
12. "The Quick and The Dead"-Sharon Stone
13."Red River" -Wayne
14."The Outlaw Josey Wales"- Eastwood
15."The Man From Laramie"- James Stewart
And just for the heck of it. here's my favorite western TV shows:
1. The Wild Wild West
2.The Adventures Of Brisco County Jr.
3.The Lone Ranger
4. Wagon Train
5. The High Chaparral
6. Maverick
7.Have Gun, Will Travel
8. How The West Was Won
9.Wanted: Dead Or Alive
10. The Westerner
--
Today's western movie:
"Shoot Out At Medicine Bend" (1957)
-Randolph Scott. Angie Dickinson, James Garner
Plot:
The brother of a cavalry officer is killed in an Indian raid, because he was sold faulty ammunition and could not defend himself. His brother and two fellow soldiers go after the crooks who sold the bad ammo.
Phantom's Review: While this is a minor film in Scott's career it is still a fun movie, with plenty of action. I enjoyed it.
Today's Movie:
"All Hell Broke Loose" (2009)
-David Carradine
Plot: IMDB
After serving his county in the Civil War as a skilled sharpshooter, Will Drayton moved West in search of employment using his shooting skills. He ends up with the wrong type of people as a deadly assassin.
Phantom's Review: Oh my God. what an awful film. Total amateur hour. Bad acting, bad action and a lame plot. The late David Carradine looks bored. Avoid at all cost.
Did David Carradine ever play in anything worth watching?
He did make a bad guy co-star in some decent action movies...
But, as the main star of a movie, can anyone name one, that was worth watching??
The Carradine's make good co-stars, just not Lead Stars...
imo, one of his best co-starring movies was "The Long Riders", in which he portrays Cole Younger.
Some might say "Kill Bill" was decent,but I dont know why they would..
or some may say the tv series "KungFu" was a decent show, it would have been if Hollywood would have accepted Bruce Lee..
It was Bruce's concept, his series, but Hollywood wanted an American to play the part of a Chinese Monk....really?...really?...
way to go Hollywood...
He played a decent bad guy in Lone Wolf Mcquad if you would classify that as a good film. I did not like the knife fight in Long Riders because it looked like David Carradine was using his Kung Fu moves trying to act all graceful and stuff.
Phantom Stranger, you might find it interesting that I visited the set of High Chaparral back in the day when it was in its original airing. It was the house and it was inside a sound stage so it looked like a house in a barn. Pretty cool though. I also met Festus from Gunsmoke at a rodeo. Plus, get this, I still have my first place ribbon from a rodeo I was in for a calf roping event. I also won a first place award for most authentic cooking at a reenactment of different time periods for my Texas Ranger camp. This was a highly coveted award and I beat out some medieval cooks who spent days preparing a goose with special spices. There were some very angry women when they learned I won the contest with my southwestern chilli and homemade jerky and salsa. You just can't beat texmex food.
So what do people consider to be the deciding factors of a good western? I don't mean the run of the mill stuff like "good acting" or "good story" I mean the specifics.
I liked Unforgiven because when we first see Clint's character he looks like this broken down old farmer, then we learn of his past and how even his own men were afraid of him. At the end we finally see why he was such a bad a**. Yet, he was a loyal friend, a devoted husband even though his wife had passed, a good father and treated other kindly unless he was killing them. I liked his dual nature. The other characters were all great in their roles as well. A bad a** sheriff although he ended up almost being the bad guy. A writer groupie. The young kid out to make a name for himself then realizing it is not all its cracked up to be. The whores out for revenge or justice depending on point of view. The barkeep, the two cowboys, the gun mans friend Morgan Freeman and the Englishman stirring things up on the fourth of July. What also makes this a great film is the realism and authenticity. All the little details that make it seem down to earth.
With Open Range it is different. This was about a cattle drive, free grazing (which I had never heard of) and the rich cattle baron wanting it all. What was great about this film was the tough character Charlie Waite. We learn of his past and how he was a decent man trying to put it all behind him. When the gunfight erupts we see what a dangerous man he was and his dual nature of struggling with himself trying "not" to be the bad gunman but we see that side of him. The boss was a great character caring about his men and treating all the townfolk very decent making friends wherever he went because of his kindness. I also love the way the town rallies although they did not want any part of the fight.
Both films offer gritty realism and authentic costumes, firearms and realistic situations. Both offer great cinematic moments of stark meanness while offering the contrast of carring tenderness. For me, a film could have a great story and good acting but if the costumes are not authentic, if the weapons aren't right then the film just won't cut it. On the flip side, if a film has great costumes and weapons but is slight on story and acting then it won't cut it. Appaloosa comes to mind. All the details were good but the film suffered from some cliche's and overall not great acting. Most films will have some moments. Appaloosa has the duel at the end and I liked Viggo's character overall. Hated the botoxed face of the cheating girlfriend and could not stand her character at all. Detracted from the whole film. The opening gunfight looked amateur and too staged and unrealistic. There were many things in the film that were far fetched.
So for me, as important as the story and acting are so are the authenticity of the details, even in the background. What made Lonesome Dove so perfect was all those little details and stark realism. This is why the classic westerns are so difficult for me to watch. I can enjoy The Cowboys and Little Big Man among others that are more recent made classics but if you go too far back when all the details are hokey and Hollywood then the film fails to catch my attention.
define classic westerns...do you mean the stuff from the 50s and less?
if so, then it was about children going to the movies and watching their hero beat up the badguy and win the girl.
kids didnt care for detail, they just liked all the excitement of the gunplay,indian attacks, horse chases,etc...
I like El Dorado(late 60s)it had some good characters in it,(James Caan) Mississippi-raised by a gambler,used a knife instead of gun,but..later on used a sawed off shotgun(very cool)
The drunken sheriff-(Robert Mitchum) who used to be something great, then it went all downhill for him, to the point that he was just a drunkard that people laughed at,but his best friend helped him regain his (cool status), and he regained his respect from others.
Who can forget "Bull", the wiley old coot deputy who stuck by the Sheriff's side, a very interesting character(cant remember his name)
Now, the only reason..I didnt mention John Wayne in this, is because his character reminded me of most his characters.
I'm not dissing the Duke, cause I love John Wayne movies,but his character in El Dorado, didnt have any spark imo.
It is difficult to define a classic. I can't really say how old a classic would be without making a list of Westerns by year they were made and then determine which ones were pardon the expression but kind of hokey and not authentic. There are many westerns I have not seen yet either. El Dorado being one of them. I may have seen this long ago but I have no memory of it so most likely not. I go more by the way the film was made and if there was an attempt to make the film authentic and realistic rather than when the film was made. I can say though that most of the western TV shows, although entertaining were as Hollywood as they come and not realistic at all from an authentic detail point of view.
yeh, kinda like "The true story of Jesse James", which has been airing on the EncWestern channel and FMC alot.
It is no where close to the true story, and there are others out there from the late 40s and mid 50s, that have some "Hollywood"version
of the real outlaws...
What movie do you think was the closest to these outlaws/lawmen/etc..
1.The Earp/Clanton war?
2.Billy the kid?
3.Wild Bill Hickock?
4.General Custer?
5.James/Younger gang?
-----------------------------
I'm chiming in here way late. I love westerns. All kinds. The high end serious stuff to the 30's/40's B stuff like Hopalong Cassidy which is just plain fun. Also anything by Larry McMurtry. So what is everyone's take on the movie The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford? I've seen it 3 or 4 times in the last year and thought it was pretty good. Not sure how accurate it was but portrayed Jesse much differently than in most movies. As for the BIG westerns of the 50's with BIG names,for the most part I can't watch them for too long. If I want that route I'll read 40's/50's Western Comic reprints.
I really loved Young Guns take on Billy the Kid and felt that Emilio Esteves was channeling Billy's real character. The movie is partially acurate in some parts and has at least all the name characters in both films.
I only recently saw the Assasination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford. Whew, long title. It was good, very realistic but a very disturbing picture of Jesse and could be very acurate, I don't know. The film Frank and Jesse starring Bill Paxton and Rob Lowe respectively was also a good portrayal. I know they liked to portray Frank and Jesse as some sort of Old West Robin Hoods but I think that was just because people were frustrated at being cheated out of land and homes by the money people. There was much more deception going on back then than in todays world of foreclosures. People wanted heros who stood up and hurt the money men but I am not certain that Frank and Jesse weren't just two bit criminals and more bloodthirsty than often portrayed.
As for Wild Bill, hard to say. Keith Carradine got it right in Deadwood I am most sure. Jeff Bridges did not do bad in Wild Bill but not sure how authentic the story was. Been a long time since I saw that movie.
As for the Earp's/Clanton thing I have yet to see a film that portrays that acurately. Tombstone had the gunfight down pretty close. There were seventeen shots fired in that fight and with the exception of Doc Holiday firing a two barrel shotgun three times the number is closer in Tombstone than Wyatt Earp. However, Wyatt Earp portrayed the mood and disposition better. Wyatt was portrayed in Tombstone as kind of a wimp, avoid bloodshed and all that kind of stuff. I think Wyatt was spoiling for a fight as much as any of them and that was conveyed much better in Wyatt Earp. The gunfight in Wyatt Earp though was pretty awful. I don't think either film really gets the story right. So that one is hard to call.
As for General Custer, Little Big Man does the best. It showed Custer for who he was, an ambitious ego maniac that would not hang a man who wanted to kill him because his miserable life was not worth the reversal of a Custer decision. Pretty much sums up the man. I thought it a piece of irony that Richard Mulligan also put on the Custer costume for his role in Teachers. He too I thought was channeling the true nature of Custer.
In The Assasination of Jesse James blah blah blah, you can see lots of she-bangs. These are half tent half wooden structures. They have some in Pale Rider too. Well, I build one years ago for my wall tent. It was portable and could be set up rather easily the way I designed it. Eventually the wood began to rot and I cut it up with a chain saw and burned it for firewood. I may build another though one day. I always liked my she-bang. You see some at Civil War reenactments so when you are watching the films see if you can spot one.
How about the worse Portrayal of these 3..
1.The Earp/Clanton war?
2.Billy the kid?
3.James/Younger gang?
imo
1.My Darling Clementine-Henry Fonda(I like Henry Fonda,I just didnt care for this portrayal)
2.Gore Vidal's Billy the kid-starring Val Kilmer
3.American Outlaws-why they even made that movie, I will never know.
Almost any of the classics portray Billy the Kid pretty bad. Mainly because they always chose an older actor to play him. I have not seen all the films about him and really, until Young Guns came along I never had much interest in Billy. Once YG came on the scene, because it was such a good portrayal it sent me scrambling for books about him. That is indeed what a great film about historical events can do, send you to the history books to learn what really happened. I love it too when I am pleasantly surprised by acuracy.
Which brings me to a good question, do you prefer fictional westerns or ones based on historical events?
As much as I am into history I always prefered the fictional stories. The historical ones were always mired by Hollywood's take on things. Only recently have films taken a better and more serious approach to getting historical fact right. However, historical fact is often not as interesting or exciting citing recent Alamo as the example.
There is also a third type of film and that is the blend of historical fact and fiction. Dead Man's Walk, one of the prequels of Lonesome Dove mixes historical fact like the Great Santa Fe Expedition with fictional characters. Same with Little Big Man. That film had Wild Bill Hickok and even Buffalo Bill makes a brief appearance. In Dead Man's Walk however, and this is some of the problem blending fact and fiction is they show Big Foot Wallace, a real guy getting executed in Mexico. Did not happen that way. Although it made a good dramatic show it was not acurate. That gets frustrating when they simply don't get the facts right.
As for the James/Younger gang and the Earp/Clanton affair I can't judge well because I have not seen many of the classics on the subject.
Oddly enough, even though I grew up in Arizona, had an Uncle who was a cowboy, had rodeo stars as friends, had a family big into westerns I couldn't much stand them growing up. I was into classic Monsters and Science Fiction. I have only since the advent of the better made more realistic westerns taking such a huge liking to them. When I refer to better made please understand that I am not putting down the classics. They were what they were. We just have a better grasp now in movie making of opening some books and looking at old photographs to get things more acurate. I am the same with monsters. Although I love the classics and watch them often I still lean toward the newer reboots and remakes because we are much better at the technical aspects of the process (not counting CGI which gets annoying like we can't tell when it is onscreen).
So which ones do you think are best and worst? Also, which are the best classics? I may rent a few to try and appreciate what others like about them.
I prefer Fiction Westerns, because if I watch a Historical western(and if I have read books about the subject),I tend to argue with the TV,because the book claims something different than what the "Historical" movie says....
"The Magnifecent Seven"-I believe is one of the greatest westerns made.
"The Sacketts"-Tom Selleck,Sam Elliot,Ben Johnson,Glenn Ford.
(I look for any movies based on Louis L'amour westerns)
"Blood on the sun" another great movie.
Most of John Wayne's westerns that are from the late 40s-70.. (dont care for them 1 hr Singing Sandy flicks)
In the Sacketts don't Sam Elliot and Tom Selleck make good brothers? It was harder to imagine Sam and Kurt Russell as brothers in Tombstone.
What is it that you like about The Magnificent Seven? Just curious.
The great thing about the fiction westerns is they only need to get the costumes and weapons authentic, sets too though. The story and characters can be whatever they want to make them be. It is easier to watch those and be less judgemental than with a film based on historical events. Plus, even authors and historians often disagree with what the facts are.
I like the story, 7 men going to risk their lives for a poor farming community against banditos, and some know they wont come back.
Not to mention, it has Yul Brynner,Steve McQueen,James Coburn,Charles Bronson,and Robert Vaughn in it.
I need to correct myself, it's not "Blood on the sun", it's "Blood on the moon"(1948)
Tom and Sam make better brothers than Kurt and Sam, maybe they should have went with Tom playing Wyatt Earp.
Both Tom and Sam are great in westerns..
Have you seen any other Tom Selleck westerns? or Sam Elliot?
Monte Walsh
Quigley down under
last stand at sabre creek( I think that's the title)
Shadow Riders
Sam Elliot played in "You will know my name"based on a true story of the lawman,Bill Tilghman(not sure I spelled that right)
I enjoy the following:
The Good, The Bad & The Ugly
A Fistful Of Dynamite
High Plains Drifter
For A Few Dollars More
Once Upon A Time In The West
Django
Pale Rider
Tombstone
The Magnificent Seven
Death Rides A Horse
The Ugly Ones
The Mercenary
The Dirty Outlaws
How about the Red Sun with Charles Bronson and Toshiro Mifune? Great western with some bad A Samurai stuff.
Ok, just finished watching Silverado. A decent rousing western,.....but.....if you want to watch a western that has some of the worst, least authentic costuming this is the one.
During that historical period they wore band collard shirts with various detachable collars, some wing tipped and some round collared. What you see in Silverado is the Hollywood cowboy shirt. The coats and vests were ok except all the leather stuff. Watch the recent Alamo, you see, they actually made fun of people who wore buckskins. In the Alamo they really ride Davy Crockett for those buckskins and he finally admits to only wearing those because of the guy in the play about him. Buckskins were for plainsmen and mountain men and from an earlier time than most westerns are set. There is a story in one of my Texas Ranger books how no one wore buckskins but during parades and festivals people expected that because they thought Texas Rangers wore buckskins so sometimes the Rangers would pull out some awful looking buckskins just to please the crowds but they hated wearing them. Now chaps were usually leather and worn by cowboys working a drive to keep the sage brush from ripping their clothes and skin. But, no leather vests, sorry John Wayne and definately no buckskins.
Also, in Silverado, they use the Buscadaro gun belt rigs all throughout so if you were wondering what that was when I mentioned it earlier then you can see it in that movie. Actual men of the period wore their guns on their belts with either cross draw or mexican loop generally and these were worn high on their true waist not slung low strapped to their legs. I also noticed that with the exception of the gamblers boot knife there was no other knives in the film. A person who was riding the range would have a pistol, rifle or shotgun and a good knife. Very important. I won't even get into the hats. Some of them were ok but.......
I am kind of embarrased I bought Silverado but I had not seen it in a long time.
I will be hitting a few reenactments when I get home so hopefully some good photos to come. I will be peddling some good Bowie knives and skinners to the folks. Should be fun.
If ya like Toshiro Mifune, then I reccommend watching these Samurai films, there are more,but these are the ones I have seen...
SEVEN SAMURAI
SAMURAI 1:MUSASHI MIYAMOTO
SAMURAI 2:DUEL AT ICHIJOJI TEMPLE
SAMURAI 3:DUEL AT GANRYU ISLAND
THRONE OF BLOOD
YOJIMBO
SANJURO
THE SWORD OF DOOM
ZATOICHI MEETS YOJIMBO
SHOGUN'S SAMURAI
SHOGUN
Historical accuracy is less important to me than a great story, good acting and stylish direction. I'm not an expert on the Old West, so I'm not going to notice if the gunbelts are wrong -- but I will notice a flaw in the plot. That said, I'm all for filmmakers making things as accurate as possible -- and when doing a period piece of any sort, I think the producers should take pains to see that costumes, settings, etc. are right. No point in being lazy about that -- it doesn't cost any more to use the right hat than the wrong hat. Even if most people won't know the difference, it will lend an air of authenticity that'll benefit the production. But to swing the pendulum the other way, I don't give a damn if John Wayne's vest is historically inaccurate in (for example) The Searchers -- as everything else about the film makes it a masterpiece.
If it's an historical event being dramatized, I do want to see it portrayed as close to history as possible, as that's usually a better story than any fictionalized version would be. For a non-Western example, I'll note Brian DePalma's The Untouchables. David Mamet's highly touted screenplay for that film completely ignores the historical truth and presents a totally false picture of the events and people involved -- Eliot Ness throwing Frank Nitti off a rooftop -- nonsense! The true story is far more compelling -- and this is Hollywood laziness at (in my opinion) its worst. I'm also amused anytime I see Al Capone played by actors in their 50s or 60s, when the real guy was in jail by the time he was 30.
Now you see, I thought the Untouchables was a great film because I don't know anything about the true historical facts. That does create a difference in how a person would respond to a film. Most historical films though, if I don't know much about the history cause me to run and read up about it but that was not the case with Untouchables. That was one of the few films I just sat back and enjoyed the ride. However, since you feel that way about the film then you can understand how I feel about many westerns. I prefer the "non" historical based western, one that just tells a fictional story but uses all the right costumes and props. There is no history to compare the story to. When I see authenticity fo paus, to me it is like watching a cowboy whip out an M-16 from his saddle and mow down a bunch of bad guys. Most films do at least a decent job but the older westerns tended toward Hollywood's quintessential perception of what a cowboy wore and weapons used rather than reality. There were some good films made though that did better at that. The Culpepper Cattle Company for one and another was the Ron Howard film mentioned earlier (none of us can remember the darn name).
How about the HBO series Dead Man's Gun? Before Deadwood there was Dead Man's Gun. That was a great series with some gritty stories all based upon a "cursed" Schofield revolver. It gave the western that horror spin. I loved the series and am darned disappointed that it is not available on DVD. Start writing your HBO congressman to petition this be put on DVD. There were not that many episodes so they could all be put on one disc. This series was also narrated by Chris Christopherson. There were some great guest stars like John Ritter and Henry Winkler.
Has anyone else heard about this series or perhaps seen it?
I havent seen it,but Encore Westerns have been showing reruns of "Dead Man's gun" the hour long series, lately.
I havent watched it, for the simple fact of not knowing if it has vulgar language...that's a major turn off for me on any movies...
My friend I wish I could help you about the language but I really don't remember. I can assure you that it is not like Deadwood in that regard. It may have a cuss word or two but from the episodes I can remember I would say no. You can't watch Deadwood without thinking about the language and Dead Man's Gun made no impression on me like that so again I would say no except for perhaps the occasional damn, maybe, and perhaps not even that. I am racking my brain but do not remember a single scene that had bad language. I would recommend watching at least one and then make your determination. It is such a good show and worth the viewing. If you do watch it let us know what you think of it.
I just looked up to see when "Deadman's Gun" was on, and found an episode, according to the ratings..
It listed the episode to have (violence,language,nudity,sexual content) it's rated NR/AO....
also, found out the name of that western with Lee Marvin,Ron Howard,Gary Grimes,and Charles Martin Smith...
"Spike's Gang"
Wow, Spike's Gang. I will have to read up on that because I barely remember it.
I don't remember Dead Man's Gun having any nudity in it. Violence yeah and as for language if it has any it is mild compared to Deadwood. But, I always like this show and have searched a few times to buy it on DVD.
I prefer historical fiction westerns. I am not anal about the wrong gun belts/hats etc. I do steer away from the 50's Hollywood westerns with BIG names. I think I mentioned that before.
Since Lonesome Dove was mentioned before are there any opinions on the Canadian TV series. The wife and I really like it and have watched all the episodes 3 times. I prefer the Outlaw Years but it ended pretty abrupt and should have continued with at least mini-series to tie things up.
We also greatly enjoyed Into the West ,great mini series and Son of the Morning Star starring Gary Cole as Custer. Any movie that can portray Custer as the real egoistical (*at*)$$#0le that he was so I can laugh while he bit the dust instead of the Hollywood "hero" is cool by me. Even as a kid I usually rooted for the Indians.
I like "Lonesome Dove" with Jones and Duvall......but, those other early years of 'em with David Arquette and ?? , just couldnt get into those, they lacked spark...
With regard to Lonesome Dove let me throw out there what a lot of fans and critics have said:
Lonesome Dove - original series - Awesome in every way and set the standard for that kind of mini series
Lonesome Dove - the return - Most did not like this. Although Jon Voight is a good actor and the one originally chosen for the role of Woodrow Call Tommy Lee Jones made it his and put the bar so high up that fans really won't accept anyone else in the role.
Streets of Laredo - this was a hastily put out response by Larry McMurtry because he did not like the results of "Return". Again, although James Garner is a fine actor he was not right for the role of Woodrow Call although opinions vary on that. This film was ok, it contained a few characters from the original series. The ending was not good. This is also the only one I don't own and would not really care to see again. Had McMurtry written this one as a real sequel then maybe I could take it a little more but knowing he did this just as a response to "Return" who knows what he may have penned for the "real" sequel. This one also left a lot of question unanswered.
Dead Man's Walk - I, like many of the fans really got into Arquette and Jonny Lee Miller as the young Gus and Woodrow. I own this one and have watched it almost as many times as the original. A critic said that Miller was channeling the Woodrow character extremely well and Arquette just as good as Gus. Now, keep in mind that when they actually reach the Dead Man's Walk of the title I think it gets very boring. But I really enjoyed all the early scenes. That said however, if indeed the Rangers were like shown in their engagements with the Commanches then how in the world did they ever "whip em"? I have studied the Texas Rangers and almost every story has them being tough as nails, and bad a** fighters who out witted and out fought the Commanches in most engagements even being out numbered although always better armed.
Commanche Moon - this one I have mixed feelings on in many respects. The actors playing Gus and Woodrow are both good. I think that Gus was portrayed a bit better but I did not like and I know this sounds crazy but the height difference between Gus and Woodrow. In this one Woodrow is a lot taller. Don't know why no one noticed that continuity error from all the earlier versions. I definately did not like the way Maggie was portrayed. I could never see her ever yelling at Woodrow. They also seemed to not catch many coninuity issues like that fact that Maggie died in Lonesome Dove, not whatever town they had her in with this version. I thought Gus was portrayed closer than Woodrow but again, Gus and I might add a young Robert Duvall had dark hair like Arquette in Dead Man's Walk, here he had blond. This one seemed too rushed and not enough careful casting was done. This one seems to have a lot less action also. Like this was just done to fill all the gaps rather than tell us a good story how Gus and Woodrow become Captains.
Lonesome Dove the series - I liked this one sort of and quickly accepted the new Newt Call rather than Ricky Shroeder. There were a couple of things though. There were moments when instead of being a gritty western like Lonesome Dove this one seems a bit more "Hollywood-ish" if that makes any sense. I really did not see the tragedy of the end of the first season coming and "think" they may have done that just to improve ratings and change the format to a more gritty setting. The Outlaw Years definately had more grit. Did you see how the town was turned from a Hollywood style quiant little town to a mud pit? Newt's character finally showed a lot of the sand that we all thought he should have being the son of Woodrow. I was totally shocked to see Woodrow in an episode played by Lee Majors. Nothing against Lee Majors but he was "not" Woodrow in looks, costume or mannerisms. He did kind of capture the personality though of Woodrow. I purchased the series and watched it all once. Would I watch it again? Maybe, but if so probably only once then I would be done with it.
In summary I watch Lonesome Dove the orginal more times than I can count and have not slowed down. Dead Man's Walk comes in second because of the great characters and how well acted they are. The rest I would watch maybe once in a blue Commanche Moon (sorry, couldn't resist) but Streets of Laredo I don't own and probably won't ever watch again. I watched this one when it originally aired.
On a personal note, my Old West reenactment kit is very similar to Tommy Lee Jones Woodrow from the original series save the cowboy chaps. I have studied his clothing and acquired almost everything as close as possible. He carried a Colt Army model revolver and I have a Remington Army model but I have a very close knife, boots are right including spurs, got the right hat just have to swap hat bands, have the vests, shirts and cowboy neck rag, ties, black duster, and most importantly the hat and frock coat he wore in the last scene. I don't own the blue frock he wore when Gus died because first it would be impossible to find and second I was not really fond of that one. I always liked his "style" of wearing vests buttoned up (not open like Voight did) and his tex/mex style hat and frock coats. His gun rig was always simple and practical. I like the "mule ears" on his boots. I still don't own a Henry Rifle though. I have a ten and and a twelve gauge shot gun which is better for reenactments but will obtain a Henry somewhere down the road. The mexican style blanket vest he wore during most of the series is near impossible to find even the fabric but I have several that are close and would pass. I have the brown hat he wore in the last scene and the black hat we wore for the rest but I noticed that he had a brown hat band on the black hat and a black one on the brown hat so I just have to switch my two. I hope I don't mess them up doing it and will have to study them closely before attempting it.
Sorry for getting all detailed about the clothing and accessories. I don't have many people to talk to about reenacting so it is nice that you all tolerate my little detail rants. I appreciate it. There was an article in Guns of the Old West completely dedicated to the guns and some of the accessories of the original series. The article reviewed the guns from all the characters including Pea Eye and Deets, all except Blue Duck which would have been cool to add.
Ok, done.
"Dances with wolves" is the only Costner western that I have ever liked.....
You know, I liked Dances with Wolves but whew is that long? I will always like Open Range and think that is his best work to date as a Cowboy. Did you know he is a partner in a device that BP just bought to help clean up the Gulf. They bought 30 of Costner's machines and want to buy more. He is ok in my book.
Did you get to watch any Dead Man's Gun episodes? If so what did you think of them?
Nope, I havent watched any yet, this past week, I've been too busy being sick, spent most of the time in bed...
When, I get around to it, I will give an episode a try...
I still wish I could get my hands on them. I will have to check and see if I recorded any of the episodes on VHS. I may have, I can't remember.
Have you ever seen Jack Bull? That is a pretty realistic film. Great acting and story. Worth a look.
Quote from: Wolf Man on June 21, 2010, 07:54:47 AM
I still wish I could get my hands on them. I will have to check and see if I recorded any of the episodes on VHS. I may have, I can't remember.
Have you ever seen Jack Bull? That is a pretty realistic film. Great acting and story. Worth a look.
It doesnt ring a bell...I will have to google it, and take a look.
I just got thru watching an oldie,but not a goodie..."Badman's Country(or Territory)" anyways, it had Wyatt Earp,Bat Masterson,Pat Garret,and Bufallo Bill Cody versus the Butch Cassidy Gang...
I'm pretty sure it was *Historical* correct ;D
So after googling it, it turns out, that I have seen this movie after all...
However, since I cant remember too much about it, it must not have had a great impact on me...
It says it is based on a true story, and it is, but that is misleading, the true story it is based on is a medieval tale nowhere near a western. They just adapted it to a western. I loved John Goodman in this film as a very honest and fair frontier Judge. The Governor too is a scene stealer. There were lots of good performances.
How about Billy the Kid VS Dracula? or Jesse James Daughter VS Frankenstein (not sure if I got that title acurate)
Quote from: Wolf Man on June 21, 2010, 11:18:07 AM
It says it is based on a true story, and it is, but that is misleading, the true story it is based on is a medieval tale nowhere near a western. They just adapted it to a western. I loved John Goodman in this film as a very honest and fair frontier Judge. The Governor too is a scene stealer. There were lots of good performances.
How about Billy the Kid VS Dracula? or Jesse James Daughter VS Frankenstein (not sure if I got that title acurate)
Billy the kid versus Dracula,with John Caradine as Dracula, I liked this movie.....
Jesse James meets Frankenstein's Daughter, wow...wow...what a terrible,horrific movie, I like cheesy movies,but this was just *meh*...
I bought Jesse James meets Frankenstein's Daughter at a garage sale for 25 cents... :)
Also got "Son of Dracula" and "Son of Frankenstein",both for a dollar, at the same garage sale.
Didja feel ripped off out of your twenty five cents?
I remember Billy the Kid VS Dracula and John Carradine. You are right, not a bad movie.
nope, I felt ripped off when I purchased "Beast of the Yucca Flats"....it has to be the worst movie made ever...
NO MAN'S LAW
THE GREAT K & A TRAIN ROBBERY
TUMBLEWEEDS
JUST TONY
THE NIGHT CRY
TRACKED BY THE POLICE
CLASH OF THE WOLVES
THE GRAPES OF WRATH
Quote from: Monster Kid on June 21, 2010, 01:17:55 PM
NO MAN'S LAW
THE GREAT K & A TRAIN ROBBERY
TUMBLEWEEDS
JUST TONY
THE NIGHT CRY
TRACKED BY THE POLICE
CLASH OF THE WOLVES
THE GRAPES OF WRATH
The Grapes of Wrath is an excellent movie,but it is not a western...it is far from being a western, unless this is a different movie, and not the depression era movie with Henry Fonda...
Thats what I thought too but it has been forever since I have seen it so didn't mention it.
Here is some real life cowboy stuff for ya.
I have a first place ribbon from my first ever Rodeo for a calf roping event. My cousin is still a champion bull dogger in the over forty class. My father went on a Burro hunt with friends, they were not out to kill them but capture them. While on the trip a champion Rodeo star named Eddie Williams roped a wild horse and my Dad bought him for me. I broke him myself and also rode the wild Burro my Dad got on the trip. The Burro was stubborn so he never went too far. We lived on a ranch in Arizona for a short while. My Uncle was the first reenactor in the family and portrayed a Commanchero. I portray an 1880's Texas Ranger. So we have a little "western" in our family history.
That's cool man, the only reenacting i ever did was play "Cowboys and Indians" as a kid.. :)
Except one time, we had a pioneer day at church, and I dressed as an oultaw and my buddy then,dressed as the marshal.(1987)
I wore a black hat and black overcoat,blue shirt,blue denim pants tucked into brown boots, and the gun I wore was a replica of (cant remember the year)Shiloh, I wore it high on the hip.
He wore his gun low and tied,like in the movies..he was better dressed than me, but I still had fun.
In reenacting we call it the time travel effect. There is nothing like waking up, smelling the camp fires and living the life (if only for a weekend). Like most costuming it is plyaing dress up for grown ups. As for the gun fights, it gives you a new perspective on things with all the mishaps that can occur. Some of the most hilarious things happen inadvertenly which is kind of frightening from the stand point of those things happening back then for real. At least for us a mishap is something we laugh about later but for those who really lived back then a mishap meant living or dying.
One of our WWII vets told a story how he had parachuted into France during the D-Day operation and while patrolling a German paratrooper came from behind a tree and pulled the trigger on his MP-40 and it jammed. He said he will carry the look on that German's face for the rest of his life. He shot him and when he examined the body found that this was a highly decorated German veteran who would have killed him if not for a fateful mishap.
Life is not always about who is good, or the fastest but sometimes who is simply lucky.
I still have nightmares about my firearms malfunctioning at critical moments. I almost would rather have my Bowie knife. That never misfires or runs out of ammo.
I wish I could find the article, but I once read that Spaghetti westerns were often the second favorite genre for Hammer fans. One good reason was they certainly had overlapping audiences in the 1960s, but also due to the good and evil themes. I certainly love my spaghettis...
My favorite westerns are (and this will of course overlap many of the other lists)
A Fistful of Dollars
For a Few Dollars More (maybe my favorite of the Leones as El Indio is THE best western villain)
The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
Once Upon a Time in the West
Duck, You Sucker
DJango
Navaho Joe
Shoot Django, If You Must Kill (Almost a gothic horror, worth seeking out)
Sartana
Blindman
trad western favorites
The Magnificent Seven
The Searchers
Stagecoach
The Man Who Shot Liberty Vallance
High Noon
Shane
Hang 'Em High
and my oddball favorites
Little Big Man
Dead Man
Judge Roy Bean
most need to see
The Ox Bow Incident
Will Penny
Michael
I guess I am not really a Spaghetti western fan because I recently purchased Once Upon a Time in the West and from the sound of the synopsis it sounded fantastic. I could not get into after forty minutes of watching it and finally turned it off. I am not really sure what niche of the genre I am a fan of but those just can't hold my interest. I do like Little Big Man, and Judge Roy Bean, those kind of fantasy westerns with a touch of history. There was also one that just came to mind with Frank Sinatra who played a quirky character but I can't remember the name?
What makes ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST a great film: http://multi-hyphenate.com/?p=11 (http://multi-hyphenate.com/?p=11)
How about some humorous westerns?
Favorite is Lightning Jack written by Paul Hogan and made by Simon Wincer of Lonsesome Dove. Great film.
Another is The Cherokee Kid with Sinbad. This one had some funny moments especially the scenes with Burt Reynolds. Not as fond of it as Lightning Jack but still a good diversion.
Of course, there is always Blazing Saddles.
Cat Balloo is another great one. Who can forget Lee Marvin drunk on his horse and his horse was drunk too both leaning up against the wall. Great stuff.
I love some humor in a western plus some good dramatic moments mixed in.
Quote from: Wolf Man on June 23, 2010, 01:39:53 AM
I guess I am not really a Spaghetti western fan because I recently purchased Once Upon a Time in the West and from the sound of the synopsis it sounded fantastic. I could not get into after forty minutes of watching it and finally turned it off. I am not really sure what niche of the genre I am a fan of but those just can't hold my interest. I do like Little Big Man, and Judge Roy Bean, those kind of fantasy westerns with a touch of history. There was also one that just came to mind with Frank Sinatra who played a quirky character but I can't remember the name?
Sounds like Dirty Dingus McGee..........
THATS IT! Awesome. I barely remember that film but did like it.
Also, I thought Maverick was a good lighthearted romp through the old west. That film had some great lines. The one about the indians, I try to shoot one a day for being on our land before we got here. Something like that. The way they tied in the orginal Maverick too was genius. How about when he ends up across from Johnny, Johnny Hardin......uh, yeah, John Wesley Hardin, so mean he once killed a man for snoring. Plus the cameos, WOW.
comedy westerns...I would say...
Support your local sheriff-the best comedy western ever..
Rustler's Rhapsody-first time I saw it was at the theater, excellent comedy.
The Villain-Kirk Douglas as the villain and Arnold Swarzineiger as the Hero...very funny.
The Frisco Kid- Gene Wilder and Harrison Ford
Ok, barely remember this but how about Don Knotts, Shakiest Gun in the West? If I remember correctly he had a hilarious scene as a dentist with really shaky hands.
I only like a couple of Don Knotts movies, and they are " The Ghost and Mr.Chicken" and "Private Eyes"..
I also liked him in the scooby doo episodes.. :)
there are some comedy westerns I didnt care for, like...
"Son of Paleface"
"Wackiest wagon train in the west"
"The Apple dumpling gang"
"The apple dumpling gang rides again"
Now there was this one spaghetti western, where the main guy would outdraw the opponent and slap him in the face, he did this several times to the poor guy...it was a little funny...cant remember the title of the movie...
Wolf Man,
Speaking of humourous westerns,do you remember Evil Roy Slade starring John Astin ?
I picked it up about six months ago.I hadn't seen this movie for years and it's still funny !
"They Call Me Trinity" and "Trinity is Still My Name" !
Today's Western:
"Jonah Hex" (2010)
-Josh Brolin
First let me say I'm a huge fan of "Jonah Hex" The comic book, I've followed the character since he first hit comic stands in the early '70's and when I first heard about this film I thought "great, I hope they do it right"
Well now Ive seen it it all all I can say is...it's okay. Not the worst movie of all time, but given the source material it should have been great.
Josh Brolin is perfect in the part, but the film makers were so intent on making a "Comic Book Movie"they forgot that Hex is first and foremost a western.
All the sci-fi and supernatural aspects of the film were totally unnecessary, Had they stuck with a basic revenge story it would have been a much better movie.
I have never seen that movie Avenger. Hhmm I will have to look into it. Did it feel like watching Gomez Addams play cowboy?
I remember seeing one comic of Jonah Hex. If I remember correctly I liked it but never really went looking for other issues. There were a few I did like that. I was always a fan of the Hulk yet only read one or two of the comics so I knew nothing about him really when I saw the first Hulk movie. I did watch the TV show however.
Give us a little background on Jonah Hex from the comics.
Here's the best place for info on the original "Jonah Hex"
1)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonah_Hex
2)http://www.lonely.geek.nz/jonahhex.html
--
Darn, I was hoping you would give us your personal synopsis but you went the lazy way. I guess I will try and read the link. Dissapointed look on my hairy face.
alright, I have "Deadman's gun set to dvr, the episode is "A Gambler's revenge"...it's on Saturdays on the EncoreWestern channel (342 for DISH viewers)
Yeeehaaa, good for you. I really hope you like it because I will look the idiot if you don't. I just wish they would put it on DVD. I would buy the whole series. The first episode was actually three episodes. The debut was awesome. I am still kind of stumped about the bad language and nudity because I don't remember much of either. I just remember that first episode when the trail of the Dead Man's Gun begins. Tell me what you think of Kris Kristofferson's narration. I thought that made the show.
I watched Deadman's Gun episode" The Gambler"- it was about a gambler who ran out of luck,til he got the deadman's gun,which brought him luck,of course he had to kill.....which feeds the gun it's power to give him his luck, in the end.....he decides that he doesnt need the gun, and relies on his own skills, and wilns the poker tournament.
He then passes the gun onto a poor drunk stable guy.
It wasnt bad,but it wasnt great either, I will have to watch other episodes to give an honest opinion about the show.
There was some language in it, but no F*Bombs, thank goodness!
I don't think I actually ever saw that episode. Yeah, it may have some cussin but nothing like Deadwood. This show was low budget for sure but I liked most of the episodes I got to see.
(http://northfork.tripod.com/guns.jpg)
wanted:dead or alive- is that winchester possible?
Yes, it is possible. I just did a search for it on Guns of America and there were no listings. It is feasable however. Also feasable is the 20 gauge cut down used in Lightning Jack for Cuba Gooding Jr's character. However, with both pieces the acuracy would be greatly reduced. The cut down Winchester would be more acurate being a rifle but the 20 gauge would blow a man clean out of his boots, close up that is. The Winchester though is a powerful rifle and it would take some getting used to fireing it with one hand.
Curious, why do you ask?
cause I'm gonna go saw my winchester down.....not really...
It just didnt look like it would be something workable, so I was just wondering......
Which came first: the Rifleman's Rifle on the tv series or John Wayne's rifle??
I know in many of the Duke's movies, his rifle has the same look on the lever...
So did Rifleman steal his concept or did he steal rifleman's concept???
Watched "Tombstone" tonight on HMC and then flipped over and watched a little bit of "Rio Bravo" on AMC...
I noticed the Duke was using his special made Rifleman rifle in it to.
"Guns Of The Magnificent Seven" (1969)
-George Kennedy
Plot:A Mexican revolutionary hires an American gunslinger to organize the rescue of their leader from a brutal army prison. |
Phantom's Review: Second sequel to the American western classic. Not as good as the original, but very entertaing nonetheless. Plenty of action and humor and all the actors do good jobs. A fun film.
"5 Card Stud" (1968)
-Dean Martin, Robert Mitchum
Plot: IMDB
After a card shark is caught cheating, he is taken out and lynched by the drunkards he was playing against. Soon afterwards, the men who were in the lynch mob start being murdered, one after another; all by hanging. Who will be killed next and who is responsible? Is it one of the original party seeking to cover their accursed deed, or perhaps the mysterious Rev. Jonathan Rudd, who has recently arrived in town?
Phantom's Review: Highly entertaining western mystery. Martin and Mitchum are terrific. A fun popcorn movie
__________________
If any of you guys have DirectTV, the channel RFD has started showing Roy Rogers Theater showing the old Roy Rogers movies (obviously-duh). These are fun movies and many familiar faces from Monogram and PRC show up regularly. The neatest thing is that the show is hosted by Roy Roger's son and grandson. I think it has been showing for a few months now, but I just happened to stumble across it flipping through the channels last weekend. It's on Saturday's at noon and again at midnight.