Are you all worried? Not worried? Is it close to you? For us it's in the county next to ours, Livingston County. I'm not very worried, but I am taking the precautions of washing my hands and not touching my face. I have to be careful when I work. I keep those Chlorox wipes around. I'm pretty careful about that anyway.
Well, here in Texas we have a number of alerts out, but as long as one is careful there should not be much to worry about. My elderly father thinks I have the swine flu because I eat like a pig. But it is as with anything out there, education is the best preventive medicine one can take. David
I am kind of worried about it because I have next to no imune system at all.I catch everything that comes down the pike 3 times as bad as the normal person.
I'm trying to take precaustions the best I can but I still worry about it.
The best advice from our local medico's is to avoid large crowded places. Avoid contact with individuals with known cold or flu like symptoms and wash your hands frequently. The use of "face masks" in not recommended as this does not work in busy places. I can understand your fears as I have very sever bronchial problems resulting from several bouts with pneumonia over the years as well as the "TEXAS" allergy syndrome. Be careful but don't let your fears take control. Peace. David
I think this is good practice for the pandemic that has yet to hit us. Remeber I AM LEGEND? oh, the germ is out there. This is just the test run.
A topic not to be taken lightly but many people die from the regular flu yearly and it is not reported as widely as this new strain.
I think that is where the concern lies, that it is new and dangerous.
Everyone in or near outbreak areas need to be more cautious than those of us that are not...be careful.
I live in NJ and there are a number of outbreaks in nearby NY. All I can think is to wash regularly and use antibacterial gel after being in a public place. I dont think I necessarily understand this flu. Can it be cured? I assume it is far more dangerous to infants and the elderly? If you feel symptoms is it already too late by this point? I have to think if I'm experiancing flu like symptoms now, just head to the ER?
Hopefully this will come and go and not do anymore damage. It was only a few years ago that there was a SARS outbreak and thats old news now, lets hope the same thing happens here.
Media generated hysteria in my opinion. Watch how fast the "swine flu" hype is dropped when the next "Big Health Scare" is introduced. Is anyone concerned about the avian flu or SARS anymore?
'I dont think I necessarily understand this flu.'
Not surprising, and don't feel alone in that; most of those on the case are only beginning to get their brains around the basics. Given the amount of media nonsense (read 'utter crap') flying about, it's a wonder people aren't already rioting/looting/killing themselves over the End of the World scenarios being hyped all day long.
'Can it be cured?'
No and sort of. There is no vaccine yet, but vaccines are for prevention.
But there are at least two antiviral drugs which do very well against this H1N1 strain (unlike the SARS and Bird Flu strains of the last few years) and are being used with success after the disease is contracted.
There is no 'cure' for any flu virus. We do 'cure' ourselves though... we develop immunity by fighting it off, and our bodies are better prepared for that strain next time it comes around. The problem with this one for the moment is that it's new, so we don't have antibodies in our blood for it. That's pretty much the main reason it's getting all the attention.
'I assume it is far more dangerous to infants and the elderly?'
I wouldn't say 'far more' in this case. This one actually has been affecting young adults, teens, healthy people just as strongly, so that's a difference and a concern. But generally, yes, any disease will affect the very young and the very old (those with underdeveloped or worn out immune systems) more severely.
'If you feel symptoms is it already too late by this point?'
Too late for what? With any flu you've ever had, you were ill (and contagious to others) at least 2 to 7 days before you felt any symptoms, and you are still alive. This new flu strain, DESPITE the news overkill, is not an automatic death sentence. If you look at the numbers, the opposite seems to become more evident (Mexico notwithstanding).
'I have to think if I'm experiancing flu like symptoms now, just head to the ER?'
I say NO, but it's certainly your call; if you are experiencing symptoms more severe than you've ever felt before, or simply never felt in your life, then by all means, go to your doctor (it may not be 'swine flu' at all but still something dangerous so don't mess around with it). But if you get a cough, a sneeze, some aches and pains, well... don't you get that at least once a year or so? Stay at home, get lots of rest, drink lots of fluids, call your doctor and ask their advice, but stay out of circulation until you're feeling good enough to go back out without putting anyone else at risk.
THE LAST THING our ER's need is everyone with a fever, cough or aches rushing the ER. Take a moment to assess things, call your doctor, then see if they recommend it. I promise you that more people are breaking their arms, banging their heads, and having heart problems every hour in your city who NEED that ER far more than the likelihood of you or anyone else requiring ER service for even THIS strain of flu.
'Hopefully this will come and go and not do anymore damage. It was only a few years ago that there was a SARS outbreak and thats old news now, lets hope the same thing happens here.'
As all flus will, it WILL come and go. This will do more damage in pockets around the world then some flus have, but not nearly as much as others have. It's the nature of disease in our history.
What's NOT 'old news' about SARS and Bird Flu is that what we learned about dealing with widespread disease during those scares is now being applied pretty damned efficiently to this current scare, and we are in better shape than we've ever been historically to deal with an outbreak. Not perfect, but better than before.
The thing is, there's a massive difference between the SCOPE of this outbreak and the SEVERITY of the disease. The whole fear over 'W.H.O. is raising us to Phase 5 of this pandemic' is crap. The news touts that phase thing as 'the disease is getting worse' when it actually has nothing to do with the severity of the strain. That whole Pandemic Phase system is only 5 years old, so when Fox or CNN idiots start screaming 'We've never seen this level declared in history' they're talking out their... well, it's all nonsense, and they're only selling their programming, not stating anything that has ANY meaning to the situation at hand.
Since January of this year, nearly 13,000 people have died of known flu strains in the U.S. alone. 13,000. Where's the End of the World hype over that? Exactly.
That this strain is new, and therefore we have no known immunity/antibodies to it, make it worth concern, and keeping your hands and face clean, avoiding sick people, avoiding travel to confined areas or where lots of people are sick, all these things are good ideas ALL THE TIME, so use them with particular diligence now. This is just common sense.
So far, all deaths have been in Mexico (the lone (so far) U.S. death has such strong and direct connections to Mexico that it could be considered a Mexican fatality). This is tragic, puzzling, and very sad for me personally because I have family and many friends there. I do not downplay the serious tragedy of this outbreak in Mexico.
But think of this: when X amount of cases are suspected/presented in Mexico City and surrounding areas, how many cases do you suppose AREN'T being reported? How many cases have been contracted, suffered, and recovered in the last month or two without any deaths, in fact without anyone outside a neighborhood even knowing or worrying about it?
For every person who reports to their doctor about a disease, there are likely 2 or more who DON'T report it (this from the CDC and the AMA)... this ratio grows in rural and/or underdeveloped regions. So when CNN or Fox tell us 'The death rate from this disease is between 5 and 7%', they've lost all sense of the math and the percentage. Because if you don't know for certain how many cases vs. deaths there REALLY are, you can't ascribe any death rate with any accuracy.
And the reason most cases DON'T get reported is because they are simply NOT SEVERE ENOUGH for the patient to bother. They get over it, and no one's the wiser. Or worse for wear, actually. Life continues.
SO FAR, outside of Mexico it's not the lethal world-ending disease the news channels are trying to scare us into believing. And IN Mexico it turns out that thus far, while Mexico's gov't tells us over 2,500 cases with 160 some-odd deaths, NO OTHER OUTSIDE SOURCE (CDC, WHO) has confirmed more than 97 cases and only 7 deaths in Mexico. SEVEN.
In L.A. county alone, they tend to have around 1,000 deaths from known flu strains every year. So there WILL be some deaths there from flu, including this very H1N1 strain, this year. Likewise in other big cities, where other flu deaths have already happened this year.
Should we panic?
Example: Yesterday the director general of the World Health Organization, Dr. Margaret Chan, told us that 'all of humanity is at risk'. In the CONTEXT of her speech, she was referring to what is at stake IF we do not act now and put in place the procedures and social/medical 'machinery' we've stockpiled and prepared for just such an occassion as this. True, calm, good idea Dr. Chan.
But then what happened? All the news guys tell us (in their best annoying big-voice-scaring-you tones) that 'The Director of the WHO told us that IF YOU'RE HUMAN, YOU'RE AT RISK OF DYING OF SWINE FLU (Rick Sanchez JUST said it on CNN, and Neil Cavuto said it EXACTLY the same way last night on FOX)... now, can you see the MASSIVE difference between what Dr. Chan actually said and intended, versus the idiotbox heads trying to scare us all?
H1N1 is worth cleaning your hands over, heck yes. So are a lot of other things. Take care, pay attention. Follow requested precautions and guidelines. It's our duty to ourselves, our families, and as responsible citizens to take care over any disease.
But ONCE AGAIN, in spite of all the news boneheads' admonitions, the sky is NOT falling. Pork IS safe to eat. You won't get 'bacon lung' or 'the other white plague' or 'Porky Pox' or whatever. The World's not ending.
Ath-th-th-thee-a-tha-the-the-the-theThat's NOT all, folks.
I think the WHO and the CDC are doing what they should be doing. It's the newsmedia, yet again, that make things five trillion times worse than they would ever have been.
Sorry for the book here, honestly... but this kind of thing gets me going. We are essentially forced to rely on tv and radio news for information and we rarely get real information; we always get hype, scaremongering for sales, and utter bull****.
Dr. Mike C.
Quote from: mike c on April 30, 2009, 03:08:32 PM
'I dont think I necessarily understand this flu.'
Sorry for the book here, honestly... but this kind of thing gets me going. We are essentially forced to rely on tv and radio news for information and we rarely get real information; we always get hype, scaremongering for sales, and utter bull****.
Dr. Mike C.
Dont be sorry!! That was fantastic and just the thing, I, and about a million other people needed to read! THANKS MIKE!!!
Jess
'Nuff Said.
as just one example of panicked idiocy, egypt is ordering the slaughter of 300,000 pigs, despite the fact that people are asking for the swine flu to be renamed as it's apparent it has little, if anything, to do with swine at all.
i think mike is on to something here. we managed to survive SARS, the bird flu, the hong kong flu, 2K, mad cow disease, lead in toys, reaganomics... how far back do you want to go? hell, mankind even somehow managed to survive a couple black plagues during a time when you could go to the doctor to get a haircut.
keep this story in mind the next time you read any statistical information. especially when it comes from the government, *especially* when it relates to a hot button social issue someone trying to be saviour of the universe might interpret to fit into their agenda.
my group leader at my day job referees at night. he reffed a game a couple of days ago and got a message on his blackberry today that one of the girls on a springboro team (two towns south of me) is having bloodwork done to see if she's got this flu (her parents just got back from mexico). if so, i hear the entire school district will be shut down for seven days. i have to agree with this precaution. i read today where most schools across the country may be out, too (i say 'most' because i forgot the actual number off hand, but it sounded like 'most' to me).
does it worry me someone so close may have it? even if she does have the swine flu, i'm not particularly worried. i'll wash my hands more with bacterial soap, and i might shoot people who look feverish if they walk into my store, but, no, i don't see any reason to overreact at this time.
i've not been to any zealous religious sites to get the 'real' scoop ~ that sounds like a hoot, though. i'm not quite convinced this is god's method of bringing armegeddon upon us. besides, last time i looked it wasn't 2012 just yet! the world has been coming to an end for at least a thousand years now. what had me more concerned was the meteor that 'just missed' us by a couple zillion (perhaps a bit of hyperbole here) miles a few years back. when there's a confirmed case of the flu in my town, then i'll be more concerned. concerned, not panicked, and i'll take appropriate measures.
around here they recently pulled off the shelves all the alfalfa because of salminella. i'm just glad i get all my nutrients from marlboro light 100's. i grew up under the ridiculous widespread belief that second hand smoke was faaar more dangerous and cancer causing. so, under this laughable theory, i smoke defensively.
like mike said, mostly scaremongering to drum up ratings. it's obviously effective. how many of us sopped up every second of coverage during 9/11? i know i was right there watching the live feed as u.s. troops rolled into baghdad in a long tank column. we really are suckers for this kind of stuff. not that it's not news, but there's also no reason to slaughter pigs and call it being safe rather than sorry. i call it a knee-jerk reaction that a political opponent will use against you during the next election unless you go overboard with your reaction.
and, yes, i absolutely expect mask manufacturers to enjoy a ginormous sales spike for april and may.
hopefully, mexico will ask for help in making mexico city, which is sinking due to over-pumping underground water and is well-known for its terrible health conditions, a more hygenic place to live.
'hopefully, mexico will ask for help in making mexico city, which is sinking due to over-pumping underground water and is well-known for its terrible health conditions, a more hygenic place to live.'
MAN, I hope so too. Well said.
And I agree about school closings; it seems pretty reasonable to me to keep our kids and faculties safe. I'm not against taking precaution. Besides, it seems to me in this particular case, it's just close enough to many school systems' summer vacation that it might not present the burden that a ten day or two week closure occurring in, say, October or March, might. BUT I am NOT an education expert so those UMA'ers who are, please correct me if that's a bunch a'hooey.
I'm also glad that nothing in this thread is bringing up any party politics or conspiracy theory bickering. It's nice to just lay out our fears and hopes, and a few facts, about a current issue and stay friends... and it points out that once again, the UMA freakin' ROCKS because it's full of so many decent, normal folks. 'Abby'normal, sure, but good people.
Mike C.
I just spend all day wearing one of these...
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_2b_SPCr78uQ/SKyks8XwglI/AAAAAAAACSw/nK7yGUXUUd8/s400/level-a-hazmat-suit.jpg)
HAHAHA!
YEAH, but to be totally honest, you wear that a lot anyway, don't you? C'mon, fess up!
Mike C.
Quote from: mike c on April 30, 2009, 08:52:00 PM
And I agree about school closings; it seems pretty reasonable to me to keep our kids and faculties safe. I'm not against taking precaution. Besides, it seems to me in this particular case, it's just close enough to many school systems' summer vacation that it might not present the burden that a ten day or two week closure occurring in, say, October or March, might. BUT I am NOT an education expert so those UMA'ers who are, please correct me if that's a bunch a'hooey.
Mike C.
Closing schools for two weeks would be a nightmare, especially in secondary grades. This is finals season. They are taking state assessment tests now. In a couple weeks, they will take final exams. Very bad time to call off school. And they would have to make up the missed days. Schools are required to hold classes a minimum number of days each year. By now, schools will have used up their allotted snow days. It would extend the school year deep into the summer. And if they did not have to make up the lost days (perhaps by some special federal or state waiver), they would lose a ton of attendance-based funding. Schools receive state aid based on the number of students attending each day. This would create a big budget shortfall during a period when they are already considering laying off staff, if they have not already made cuts. If this flu outbreak leads to prolonged school closings, it will cause big problems. I hope everyone keeps a cool head.
Hey, I live in L.A., you never know what you're going to catch here. :o
Quote from: mike c on May 01, 2009, 01:24:29 AM
HAHAHA! YEAH, but to be totally honest, you wear that a lot anyway, don't you? C'mon, fess up!
Mike C.
Quote from: raycastile on May 01, 2009, 02:00:04 AM
Closing schools for two weeks would be a nightmare, especially in secondary grades. This is finals season. They are taking state assessment tests now. In a couple weeks, they will take final exams. Very bad time to call off school. And they would have to make up the missed days. Schools are required to hold classes a minimum number of days each year. By now, schools will have used up their allotted snow days. It would extend the school year deep into the summer. And if they did not have to make up the lost days (perhaps by some special federal or state waiver), they would lose a ton of attendance-based funding. Schools receive state aid based on the number of students attending each day. This would create a big budget shortfall during a period when they are already considering laying off staff, if they have not already made cuts. If this flu outbreak leads to prolonged school closings, it will cause big problems. I hope everyone keeps a cool head.
Well there ya go. Hooey corrected.
Yesterday I decided that I'd worry about the swine flu when swine flew.
This is not a media-scare-hype-generated thing.
For once, they are duly concerned.
It is real. It has jumped species, and unlike swine flus of the past, is able to travel from person to person. As its virulence has changed its pattern in the process of coming into the US, it indicates it mutates rapidly. We can only be grateful that out strain seems not as severe.
HOWEVER, like all flus, it is dangerous mostly only to the very young and the very old, immunocompromised and those with lung disease. I can count several people I know who are close to me who fit that category.
So.. please... don't be dismissive.
Wash your hands. Cough into your sleeve. Avoid people who are coughing.
Matt Jaycox M.D.
UMA Medic
Quote from: FACTO2 on May 01, 2009, 12:12:11 AM
I just spend all day wearing one of these...
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_2b_SPCr78uQ/SKyks8XwglI/AAAAAAAACSw/nK7yGUXUUd8/s400/level-a-hazmat-suit.jpg)
As Hannibal Lector said "Love the suit."
David
Howdy Matt-
Yes of course you're right, the illness IS real, and I don't think anyone's (not me certainly) being dismissive about the real illness and the need to take precaution. At least I hope people aren't being dismissive, or taking anything I've written as being dismissive of the reality of H1N1. It's not the actual disease which is in question, and as I wrote in another post, it's our responsibility to stay safe by using common sense, keeping ourselves and our loved ones informed and clean, etc.
It's the media hype surrounding the actual story which is quite dismissable; there is no question that the media are hyping this to scare folks into viewing, reading, and hanging on their every word. They do it often. Just because there really is something to be duly concerned about doesn't mean they're not doing business as usual. The level of panic on display certainly is a media-scare-hype-generated thing, yes indeedy.
We also need to start people thinking about how they get their information, e.g., if they're going to hit the internet for news, go to the CDC's site, not freaking Twitter or AOL News.
It's worthy of concern and precaution and following the advice of the medical field. It's not worthy of panic and hype. It's just tough because we have to slog through the one (newsmedia) to get to the other (advice and truth) most of the time.
Mike C.
the CDC (maybe it was chan herself) politely blasted joe for his comments the other day, cautioning folk not to fearmonger.
two independent researchers calculated a worst case scenario, pegging the number of cases in four weeks in the u.s. to around 1700 (one said 1700, the other said 1200 with certain conditions bringing that up to roughly the same number, if i remember correctly).
no, i don't think anyone's being dismissive, but i'm not going around declaring the sky is falling, either. we've survived other flu pandemics, and without as good technology and sophisticated medical delivery systems, not to mention information dispensal. we're *much* better prepared for an outbreak now than we've ever been, and as long as we can manage not to turn it into another katrina fiasco fatalities should be kept to a minimum. there will be deaths, though.
schools will be shut down. were you a school superintendent and worried about your job, you'd play it safe by shutting schools down left and right at the slightest hint of swine flu and regardless of how much it cost your district in aid, which just may be waived anyway. y'all know the drill: 'pass this levy or we'll have to cut football!' that's the biggest scam around, but people are sucker enough to fall for it more often than not. nowadazes it's a bit harsher, threatening to cut teachers out... i wonder how the teachers union would react?
if nothing else, perhaps finals could be done online. that could in theory help. (in real life, it'd be a mess.)
if the attendence issue isn't waived, they'll just have to take an early break and return when they can. it'd suck on many levels to be a kid or parent in this case, but i think everyone would understand (i can already see one out of 100 irate parents on the 'news' wailing about the woes this inconvenience would cause, which to me begs the question of what they were planning on doing with their kids when summer break came around). kids aren't being denied any of their break as a result. indeed, some will get a longer one if their school has any emergency days left to spend.
when it's all said and done, i wonder how many parents would ask for a year-around school as a result.
Maybe 10 or 12 years ago I got the IWIDF. I Wish I Was Dead Flu. Some Taiwan weird ass variation there of. Me= mid 30s healthy weight lifter type guy. During = weak as a kitten, First day everything coming out both ends,. By the middle of the second day 104.5 fever. Slept on and off in 30-45 minute shifts on the couch for 3 days. Hit by a semi syndrome. Crawled to the BR to pee cuz I couldn't stand up without almost passing out. Shoulda gone to the hospital but $$$$$ :o. Maybe Conan (the barbarian not O'Brian) says is true. That which does not kill you makes you stronger. This is pure fear driven overhype. When my state(IL) is verifying 50,000 cases then I will worry. You cannot control the eventual.
HEY JOHN TUCKY ITS ME BIG JOHN CHICAGO.......I MUST SAY THE OUTFIT DOES WONDERS FOR YOUR HAIR AND EYES............REMEMBER ME ...????? HILLSIDE SHOW ........BIG J.........
the powers-that-be are now being cautiously optimistic that this strain is much weaker than they feared and the worst of it may actually be over. in the same breath they warn that it may crop up again, stronger, during the regular flu season. hopefully by then they'll know more about the strain and how better to combat it.
flus are, of course, no laughing matter. the 1918 pandemic resulted in 40-50 MILLION deaths. one more reason not to live in big cities, eh?
so, it appears right now the human race dodged another bullet. until 2012, when aztec zombies join forces with our alien overlords to subjugate the species. that goes without saying, though.
(http://imgur.com/27K39.jpg)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: preyer on May 02, 2009, 11:52:36 AM
so, it appears right now the human race dodged another bullet. until 2012, when aztec zombies join forces with our alien overlords to subjugate the species. that goes without saying, though.
Yep, dont say I didn't tell ya so!
A couple of cases popped up here in PA but quickly subsided. THe governement worked fast getting into those houses and clearing out the bodies. The burnings are almost done--can't get over that smell, and there are no more reports of dead people retunring to life.
Quote from: Jscareshock on May 04, 2009, 12:01:46 PM
A couple of cases popped up here in PA but quickly subsided. THe governement worked fast getting into those houses and clearing out the bodies. The burnings are almost done--can't get over that smell, and there are no more reports of dead people retunring to life.
I've heard they traced that little outbreak back to a cemetery in Evans City... ?
Mike C.
In the US ,30,000 people die of the regular flu each year .
I agree precautions should be taken.
But saying and believing that this can be contracted from eating Pork is foolish.
As all of us were taught , good hygiene is a must.
Stay well
63monsterkidd
I hear they have now found an 'oinkment' to halt the progress of Swine Flu. Hopefully this will prevent the 'aporkalypse' that some people are predicting.