Found a very interesting Youtube Video. Look for yourself, does this seem legit? I think so. Fast forward to 15:01 to see the above mentioned Frankenstein head. Also he shows a Karloff face cast that is supposed to be him in a test makeup for the Bride of Frankenstein, this one I have my doubts about it being authentic.
https://youtu.be/y29SZa9UfwE?si=H5IwdQPTFYWJk9uW
I don't see Jack ...
I think its just another casting from the same mold. The copy Pierce used had screen accurate neck bolts I believe and was wearing a hairpiece.
Cutting to the chase.
https://youtu.be/y29SZa9UfwE?t=916
Amazing! That this has survived too.
This head, and the Victoria/Albert full costume and head from Bride-Fantastic! We are so lucky that these still exists from our beloved films.
Not so sure on the life mask from Bride. Having hairs in the plaster is interesting, but I was rather surprised to see the back plaster so white, and clean looking.
The hand is Karloffs' and a dummy was used for stand in on lab table. There is a still from film of this scene with obvious covered dummy prop, with a bad manikin hand showing. Looks like what the 30's style manikin figures looked at that time.
Note the hanging criminal, that Fritz, and Dr Frankenstein cut down, and note his style hand. Typical style then, as can be seen in 3Stooges shorts of this period, in scenes with standing dummy props.
I have only seen the one photo of the Victoria/Albert full costume, does anyone know if there are any others. Has it ever been on display, or is it in storage? Wish there was some video of it also. I would love to know the history after filming etc.
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There are photos of the VA Bride head bust with Jack Pierce posing with it. I have a great close up photo of this head, could be used as it’s head shot for acting jobs.
These are two different heads. He has the model head shown in behind the scenes stills from Frankenstein. Jack Pierce posing in lab, as he sculpts on small-large eye monster head. He is seated next to bust of Karloff monster, which is this found head. Another still has Karloff, and Pierce in same make up studio, and this dummy head/bust is profiled looking on at them.
These pics are seen in his YouTube video, just reference for those who can’t see it. These stills are often seen, and I hope someone can post them here.
Universalrocks-yes there is an excellent video from the VictoriaAlbert museum that is online from BBC.
Sorry I don't have link, and it is not seen on BBC America channels.
They keep it in storage as they are doing some extensive restorations on the costume, which they show in great detail. They invited several scholars to look the figure over. The costume was found to have Karloff name hand written just inside pant zipper, as all production, screen worn costumes are done.
Very interesting video, recommend it highly!
There are also pics of this dummy from the auction catalog it was sold from several yrs ago.
Than you so much for this information. I will see what I can find.
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I found some good information here. https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O1314760/the-bride-of-frankenstein-prop-west-vera/ This link below gives a very good account of the history of what happened with the costume. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11094601/amp/V-row-Californian-museum-insists-seven-foot-Frankenstein-dummy-sold-without-consent.html
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I dont think thats the head used by Pierce. I highly doubt a piece of movie history.. we are only just now hearing about, is in some random tattoo guys store.
They totally ruined that Bride Frank prop with that paintjob.
31 head. With screen accurate bolts and Max Factor hairpiece.
(https://i.postimg.cc/76x4KvDj/lf-jpeg.jpg)
Bride head
(https://i.postimg.cc/CKMYNTwX/151801931-3683149931781200-7948278777180555393-n.jpg)
Thank you Dr Terror, yep that's the head from the Pierce studio from Frankenstein as the pic of Karloff and Pierce shows. That is the head the tattoo artist now owns. So cool this has turned up.
This looks authentic to my eyes, if not, it is one Fantastic artist copy. You can hardly see something so convincing as this looks, again to me, and I have always studied and looked at this stuff from these films.
Its most likely another casting from the same mold made for a wax musuem. It has different neck bolts and punched hair.
Better shot of the Bride head.
(https://i.postimg.cc/4xPQYMwB/s-l1600-312.jpg)
Here are some grabs for study.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/8929/j53AbT.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/9489/QjQvD1.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/3262/oTjpVe.jpg)
WOW Thanks Dr Terror, and Mike Scott for your posted pics, as I was in a hell’va Mess trying to copy, post these images myself.
He said the 31 head was changed for Bride make up, as it kinda shows with the details, shading on the forehead scar area. Would Pierce have added the exposed clamps as seen on side of this head for the Bride over haul on it. Maybe.
This would of been a tool, prop of Pierce’s to use, and change from his studio. He worked with this stuff, and so perhaps yes, he reworked this piece for Bride, he didn’t consider to keep it for arts sake, unfortunately.
You can see it here without the hair piece. Whale always had the idea foir the "flip top can" head so thats how Pierce designed it. The scars are there, but so is an added forehead burn not on the "found" head. And another shot of Pierce's head. His has the movie bolts with the round bases where they connect to the neck. The other head shows no indication the bolts were altered from Piereces. The round base plates would have been embedded into the wax and left an open area if removed or replaced.
We are talking about an item used by Jack Pierce for 31 Frank. It would have been long documented by now, not just randomly in some guys shop with zero ballyhoo. If real it would be worth millions and Universal would want it.
If it were made by a professional wax artist chances are they still had the mold and Im sure Wax Franks were in high demand after the film came out. I know Ive seen a pic of a 40s era horror wax display using that head.
(https://i.postimg.cc/90268NSR/2b12bc719121b2dfb32c2f0c12fdc683.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Hn6KkWZH/14906972-1280896088619033-7299875067575749864-n.jpg).
The chin in the new photos looks a little more prominent than in the old photos.
Chin def looks longer. There is also no handle at the bottom of Pierce's head and his has the large clamps.
Here he is with Kirk Hammets 41 WM test make-up head.
(https://i.postimg.cc/XvH1jWff/20210625-192124.jpg)
I watched the video on a big screen in hd. It does have a forehead burn and the labotomy scar lines up, but nothing else matches. Neck bolts are wrong and no indication of alteration. The bolts seen are molded into the sculpt on the "found" head. No forehead clamps. Jack's has no handle. Jacks did not have punched hair. Scar looks like it may come down further into the brow as well.
My guess ....it has connections to the Pierce head, but its not the acual head he used. Most likely done by the same artist for some other purpose.
Looks like someone used a cast of elderly Karloff for that Lifemask.🤦♂️. There is zero chance Pierce made that.
Cool- Thanks Dr Terror for these excellent pics!
Really no one is sure if the head in question, was actually used during the Frankenstein filming.
This head is not seen in any of the films stills of that time.
The one of Karloff, and Pierce is staged after the films release. On other sites it was discussed that the photos seen on Pierces wall are from films after Frankenstein production. Karloff is older looking too, so this is not taken during the original filming. He may of had this prop then, just no known still to prove it.
I think Dr T’s recent pics proves the found heads’ authentic claims. There it is pictured on Pierce’s table, with the modified look, and Bride markings. I’m not seeing the neck bolts claim, and the head clamps were added later, so one may have come off. Did tattoo Rob say the hair on this is punched in? I remember he said it is yak hair.
The handle could be taken off. Jack has it on the bust display, and off the shoulders, head only on table.
This found head has tape around wood insert, so it may be able to be removed when needed.
If you can find pics of this style head used in that 40s era promo, I would love to see it!
From the 40s era I would assume it would be for Frank v Wolf Man promo. From promo pics, and surviving heads (owned by a UMA member) these never looked anything like this Pierce head.
These promo heads look affected by the artist abilities, and materials available then. None I’ve seen looked like this studio sculpt.
The Pierce head is small, and out of human scale itself. I think that is why Pierce had the now Victoria/Albert dummy head made. It is more true to size, and detailed, though it it not known what this prop was actually made for either. Some say it’s the dummy used as the debris falls at Bride climax.
Not sure of this, nor that this found head was used as dummy stand in for Karloff on table in original film. This head being on the small scale size, not sure about that.
Please, can you post pics of found head, and close crop pics from Pierce studio stills for comparisons.
Well get to the bottom on these heads yet!
More pics from MrDark1.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/4300/zIBRnc.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/25/uaTzGF.jpg)
Thank you Mike for the help in posting these pics.
Here’s a couple pic grabs of these heads to further compare. After watching the found head video on my tv, and comparing with the original still photos, I believe this is the original head.
It has the same eye shape, ears shape etc. The scar on cheek goes past ear, and turns up, back of head. A detail never noticed before. The full bust version With head, seen in old still, you can see the scar turn up into hair on this version too.
I will post, with Mikes’ kind help, more pics of these close up view to study and compare.
If like me you were so excited to hear the owner of the head wants to make copies for fans available:
He is now offering a Small version copy for $13,000.00
He offers a copy of Karloff Hand for. $6,000.00
He offers copy of new Bride Life mask $6,000.00
Don’t rush the site now, let me get in there! So I guess a full size copy of this head will come in around 26,000.00 or so...just Outrageous!
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/2790/mT4znJ.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/5071/ZyTmn9.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/9493/WdYYs8.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/4476/rGirw4.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/29/COWKg2.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/9162/5xWDRS.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/825/VDxQbH.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/9118/wq6XR0.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/6968/plhhDc.jpg)
Is anybody else NOT seeing the 9 photos in my previous post?
I'm glad this was found. In other news, I won't be buying any replicas of it. I enjoyed seeing it though. These days I am going to focus more on eating food and trying to stay healthy and mobile instead of paying $1,000's for replicas. Not that I ever paid $1,000's for replicas before mind you,lol. Just not likely to start. Toodles.
Wonder if he offering free shipping, lol. I can't imagine paying a crazy price like that. $200.00 or $300.00 yes but not thousands. Curious to how many he really sales.
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I see your photos.
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On his sale site he just shows a pic of the found head as the smaller version for 13,000.00.
You don't even see what this copied version actually looks like, from his newly created company.
He wants to offer copies of this to the fans, who are these fans out there that could afford this at those prices?
I would like to see what his company's actual replica looks like, and what process he used to create the replica copy. I was excited that he wanted to offer up copies, but I don't think he is ready on materials, and process for manufacturing, much less pricing for this project.
I hope he can get it together, as I would love to add a copy to my collection.
There is zero buzz or mention of this anywhere else. Not even the practical effects group run and frequented by industry pros. Thats what makes me very doubtful its Pierces. Im still thinking this was simply created by the same artist for another use.
This should be the talk of the monster world if legit.
If it turns out to be real (which I dont think it is), the guy is still nuts thinking anyone will pay that kind of $$ for a copy.
Well, from looking at his video, and studying frame grabs, with original stills, that I've had help posting here for all UMAs to study over too, I think it is the true head.
I understand your concerns Dr Terror, but with my understanding of the process then, I'm not sure Pierce, and the makers of this original head mold would be able to pour up another copy then.
I think molding materials, and methods then allowed for one positive pull, as they would have to destroy the mold to get their positive out. Other wise why didn't Pierce just pour up another copy for Bride make up, other than rework this original head. Yes, no true proof he did, or not, but going on how I think the materials then could, or not be used.
Pierce did not pour up new make up pieces from molds on the 1st make up, as this was an unknown process then. He later refused to use this process when it did become a known technique, but that was his choice. The owners claim that this head was sculpted by Mrs Stuberg of Madame Tussaud wax museum could be, but how was this reached?
This head does look like manikin heads of this period, and the paint, like the pinkish color in the nostrils etc really reads of that period, as other heads I've seen of that time. Which adds to its correct time line, I believe. Very interesting that you don't see, nor hear others talking about this "find", I sure would love to see what Rick Baker, and other top make up pros think of this.
Like me then, Rick also lost access to the original Pierce Bride dummy, now with the V/A museum of London, I still moan that piece slipped through my fingers.
Exactly, there is so much we don't know. An expert on wax figures would have to examine the head to determine if its been modified or if it came out of a mold that way. One thing is for sure.
As of 1943 Jack's head had no hair. I don't think Jack haired it if real. Another possibility is Jack gifted it back to Stuberg and a wax artist haired it for display.
Could explain the memory of seeing this in a 40s era wax display photo.
Pierce's had screen accurate neck bolts with ther ound "discs" where they connect to the neck. The found head shows no indication the bolts were modified.
(https://i.postimg.cc/dt1j85jK/received-721697409512230.jpg)
Now I remember where Ive seen that head before. It was in the Movieland car
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZY8MxTC9/Screenshot-20240110-154406-Samsung-Internet.jpg)
WOW! How interesting. What year, or period is that photo? That puts a whole new wrinkle on this.
Anyone have more pics from Movieland Wax featuring this Frankenstein head?
I seem to recall seeing a wax museum picture that is close to resembling the Pierce original piece, if I'm remembering correctly. I hope someone will be able to post them, as this is very interesting, thanks Dr Terror for pics, Fascinating!
Early 60s