Any more info on this package of Marx Monsters?
(http://i2.ebayimg.com/04/i/001/2b/4e/1ecb_1.JPG)
I believe this (or one like it) was just listed on Ebay last week with no takers. Then this one shows up and sells for $168.50!!
Quote from: zombiehorror on January 28, 2009, 01:59:27 PM
Any more info on this package of Marx Monsters?
Probably from the Uncle Gilbert reissues of the '90s.
Weird. Haven't seen that before. I kinda doubt that's from the Uncle Gilbert release. Those figures were released commercially and more professionally on a slick card. Why would they go amateurish with the box?
Things that make you go hmmmmmmm?
Quote from: fmofmpls on January 28, 2009, 02:17:23 PM
I kinda doubt that's from the Uncle Gilbert release. Those figures were released commercially and more professionally on a slick card.
Didn't they also come as a set with paints? The "Ready to Paint" on the box made me think of that.
Quote from: Mike Scott on January 28, 2009, 02:36:52 PM
Didn't they also come as a set with paints? The "Ready to Paint" on the box made me think of that.
Yes, they did, but that box was a glossy colored box with high production values compared to that other box. The companies' name by the way was Uncle Milton; not Uncle Gilbert. ;)
(http://i40.tinypic.com/14m96oh.jpg)
(http://i42.tinypic.com/mrd3e1.jpg)
Quote from: fmofmpls on January 28, 2009, 03:20:34 PM
but that box was a glossy colored box
Oh yeh, now I 'member it! Could the other box be a case that these came in?
Here's some of the figs he was selling with the box. They kinda look Uncle Gilberty.
(http://i4.ebayimg.com/02/i/001/2b/4d/df52_1.JPG)
I saw that auction. The one I saw said it was a fan-produced box.
Does anybody have the link to the auction?
Quote from: Getter_1 on January 28, 2009, 06:40:17 PM
The one I saw said it was a fan-produced box.
Does anybody have the link to the auction?
You can find the latest one by searching "Universal Movie Monsters" in the completed auctions. It doesn't say anything about being fan produced. The guy says he's had it for 25 yrs and they are 1963 originals, 'cause it says so on the bottoms of the toys. (What more proof do you need!?)
I couldn't find the earlier auction.
That is definitely fan produced. I've seen some other ones that look just as horrible, probably from the same seller. There is a really poorly done Creature play set one that pops up every now and then.
In the completed auction he says he's had the figures for over 25 years, not the box.
I was assuming the box was a fan.....or should I say "scam" produced item but wasn't sure. Obviously the figures are the reissues and not 60's originals as the auction states.
The buyer in this case was in no way a Monster expert judging by his bidding history (lot's of sports stuff) but the only other bidder in the auction has a lot of bidding on toys in general and he bumped the auction all the way up to $166. As always it pays to do some investigating before jumping on something that you may think is a one of a original item, those 6 monsters could have easily been picked up for around $50 or so.
Also Cream colored Marx WITH the Marx info are repops. Cream colored with NO Marx info are gilbert. Also much less detail.
I'll bet the same guy who does the other Fantasy marx boxes did this, but hey, using the Gilber box graphics you could make a cool custom display box.
This is why publically publishing Soaky bottle tags, etc. is dangerous to every collector.
Here on this page is the perfect example- a debate whether this box is real or not, and it is all conjecture. Now imagine the future problems with auctions of items that we know exist. Like the Samjo junk, the ebuyer has to keep a running tally of what has been faked and what hasn't, and the likelihood of what you are seeing is real or repro. Basically, it f*cks up the hobby, putting it bluntly.
If a Soaky with a tag pops up now on ebay, no one will know from the photo whether it is real or repro. That's dangerous for guys that want to buy the originals. Very dangerous. Numbers, etc. can easily be photoshopped out. That is why this stuff needs to be traded privately and not published on the net.
And yes, authentic loose mint/near mint tags on Soakys exist.
Quote from: The Phantom Creep on January 28, 2009, 06:56:20 PM
That is definitely fan produced.
For what purpose, I mean, what is it suposed to be?
Quote from: Monster Bob on January 28, 2009, 08:35:23 PM
This is why publically publishing Soaky bottle tags, etc. is dangerous to every collector.
Somehow I don't think the crooks are sitting on their hands, waiting for me to make repros for them. Vitually anyone can do it!
This thing looks like it was made by the guys that were selling Marx playset Mexican recasts like 10-15 years ago. I have a boxed set of Untouchables figures somewhere, that came in a box that has similarities to this one. But I believe I paid $10 or less, and it had like 40 figures in the box (many dupes). About the same time as the Uncle Miltie stuff.
Quote from: Mike Scott on January 28, 2009, 08:56:43 PM
Somehow I don't think the crooks are sitting on their hands, waiting for me to make repros for them. Vitually anyone can do it!
Certainly they can do it, once a scan of a real one is published on the internet.
It has been proven in the past (at least 2 or 3 times by me, here) that there are sellers who conveniently forget whether something is real or not, and then put a vague description and fuzzy picture up on ebay. Then they claim, ' I bought this 20 years ago' or some such, to give credibility to something they know full well is a color xerox. It just further blurs the line between real and fake when it comes to buying stuff off of ebay, and especially from sellers that have no idea what they are selling in the first place..
Quote from: Monster Bob on January 28, 2009, 09:08:00 PM
Certainly they can do it, once a scan of a real one is published on the internet.
And if they didn't have that, they could just buy a real one and make their own scans. The guy who made the Horrorscope, Frank Speaker, etc. wasn't using UMA scans.
And this just makes it easy...
Quote from: Monster Bob on January 28, 2009, 09:08:00 PM
Certainly they can do it, once a scan of a real one is published on the internet.
Let's remember that the soaky tag was first published on the internet via eBay and not UMA. That's where we grabbed the pic from. We just cleaned it up some and shared the love here with one another.
Bob, I hear what your saying.
I also own a car. This doesn't mean that I'm going to stop driving just because somebody might steal my car, hold up a bank, and use my car as a getaway vehicle.
I also have several credit cards. Just because a waiter or waitress might steal the number off my credit card at a restaurant, doesn't mean I'm not going to continue to eat out or even use the card at all. There's risk around every corner.
This community is a giving one and for the better part a very trustworthy one. Not sharing the love with another just because some dickhead wants to do wrong is not going to win out over the betterment of the army.
We're an army of one. And yes, we do need to serve and protect that which we have been given, but to put it all in a box and bury it in the backyard because the bogey man might get it is not only neurotic ... it's giving all the power back to the crooks.
It's all well and good until somebody gets burned.
Granted, most people that are regulars here wouldn't go out and deceive someone with this, but the internet is the wild wild west and cannot be controlled, and as I said, it has been proven here before on more than one occasion that this is being done. Really, how hard is it to email the scans privately to members that want one?
Quote from: fmofmpls on January 28, 2009, 09:40:09 PM
Let's remember that the soaky tag was first published on the internet via eBay
Guess that makes the whole discussion moot, then. The crooks already had it long before it ever showed up here.
I'd rather pass out clean needles to drug addicts... :-X
So now the discussion becomes, should people selling rare items on ebay put a photo of the item in their auction?
Quote from: Monster Bob on January 28, 2009, 09:51:29 PM
Really, how hard is it to email the scans privately to members that want one?
Which members? Does that include the crooks who join just so they can be mailed these pics so they can sell fakes? (Assuming they didn't already get them from ebay, perhaps from one of your auctions!)
Quote from: Monster Bob on January 28, 2009, 09:58:13 PM
I'd rather pass out clean needles to drug addicts... :-X
Not me. I'd rather they kick heroin and start collecting monster toys. It's still addictive, but much healthier. Clean needles vs. soaky tag? Soaky tag wins everytime. If your going to enable somebody, it might as well be over a piece of cardboard and not lethal drugs. ;)
Staying consistent with the topic here at this thread, I feel with the talent here at this group that we could make a much better faux Marx Monsters box than the one pictured here. A wonderful fantasy piece for members to enjoy. Would this mean that we shouldn't forgo such a project? Just because some scumbag might misrepresent the box somewhere down the road?
And finally, before I call it a night. I would respectfully ask Bob if I may reproduce him? I would like to have my own Bob Morris so that I may have an instant drinking buddy always within close reach. We could then crank up the sounds of Reverend Horton Heat and burn rubber in my '57 Chevy. And oh yeah .. the girls! We can't forget the girls too. Bring it on baby! :)
I wouldn't bid on a rare item on ebay without a photo. And even so, if there is the slightest doubt and I am interested in an item, I request more pics, or contact the seller directly and drill 'em.
To the 'casual monster fan' who doesn't bid or very rarely bids on any higher-end vintage stuff anyway, this isn't an issue, as they aren't players 99.9% of the time anyway. But to the hardcore collector, the danger is very real. And again I repeat, I have caught plenty of boarder-line Monster collectors who conveniently "forget" they are selling a copy, although they know full well what it is and would never 'spring' for an original anyway, even 20 years ago. I try to bring up questionable auctions (here) that I catch them, esp. when a higher dollar scam surfaces.
The guy that was auctioning the Samjo bike buddies a few months back (that he claimed were originals) swore to me up and down that he absolutely knew his BBs were originals. I knew before I contacted him they were not, as the fake/samjo shrunken head is absolutely nothing like a real one- it is a new sculpt based on the box illustration and completely off). Eventually and after several attempts at selling them as originals, he rethought the thing, and sold them for what they were. But not before he tried and tried to sell them as authentic.
Terry, and while we're driving around partying, we can toast fake Bike Buddies on the exhaust manifold! ;D
Quote from: Monster Bob on January 28, 2009, 10:49:44 PM
Terry, and while we're driving around partying, we can toast fake Bike Buddies on the exhaust manifold! ;D
Now your talking! Bike Buddy bandits on the loose burning up the road. Lock up your women and children. Soaky tags will be the least of their worries when we're done. ;D
Quote from: Monster Bob on January 28, 2009, 10:47:41 PM
I wouldn't bid on a rare item on ebay without a photo.
Are you not, then, encouraging the posting of photos of rare items on the internet, so that the fakers can get ahold of them?
You bet. In low resolution.
And I can put 20 photos of a Hasbro Mummy game in an ebay auction, and you still couldn't produce a convincing fake.
But flat paper or cardboard? Impossible to tell real from fake in an ebay photograph. Even the binder art. you can go to Office Max, get a black binder, insert art, and not be able to tell if its real or fake in an ebay auction. And unless you were a player in said auctions, you wouldn't care one way or another. I guarantee if it were your dollars at stake, you'd care quick.
I guess buyers will just have to be more careful in the future when buying tagged soakies. Thats what happens when folks spend $$ on an old piece of cardboard. In the mean time I'm just as happy with my free Soaky Tag.
I don't care how old the cardboard is, Im only interested in the image printed on the cardboard.
High end collectors have ruled to roost for so long esp with vintage monster collecting, I really don't care if my repros affects that small circle of elite collectors
Every monster fan should be able to enjoy this stuff, not just the folks with the $$$ to buy it.
Quote from: Dr.Terror on January 28, 2009, 11:12:25 PM
I guess buyers will just have to be more careful in the future when buying tagged soakies. Thats what happens when folks spend $$ on an old piece of cardboard. In the mean time I'm just as happy with my free Soaky Tag.
Ugh.
Quote
I don't care how old the cardboard is, Im only interested in the image printed on the cardboard.
High end collectors have ruled to roost for so long esp with vintage monster collecting, I really don't care if my repros affects that small circle of elite collectors
Every monster fan should be able to enjoy this stuff, not just the folks with the $$$ to buy it.
Wow. That's a healthy attitude. Like I said earlier, it affects anyone that bids in auctions that rely on photographs to sell the product, not just 'that small circle of elite collectors' that bid on higher end stuff.
Oh, to add: I wouldn't consider a tagged Soaky a "high end" monster toy at $100-$200; more like average for vintage. Most new collectibles (hello Sideshow) are higher than $100; usually alot higher. I would venture to say every "vintage monster collector" here has bought
something for $100, therefore this
is a concern for most persons here that buy or will buy old monster toys at some point. Kind of the main reason this board exists, or so I thought.
--
Then buyers need to be careful and ask questions.
There has always been this snobbish attitude towards repros or recasts which I don't understand.
Let's just call this thing a draw. Both sides have very valid points. I enjoy it all. I don't care what it is, how much it costs, where the hell it came from, who owned it before me and who might own it after. It's all good as long as I'm alive. I'll gladly help anybody out with anything that I have or own.
I also want to make perfectly clear that the UMA in no way, shape, or form, condones fraudulent behavior. We ask that you the members enjoy responsibly and with much moderation. This means that we are to be equally passionate in policing our hobby as we are in spreading the wealth around. If you see an auction that is clearly in error, it is our duty to inform the seller as well as the entire community. Just as Bob had done with those faux Bike Buddies a while back. We need to be on the lookout for one another. We're in this thing together. We may not always agree on certain matters, but that's okay. In fact, it's even healthy.
Let's all have a group hug. I gotta go to bed, and this time I intend to. I don't want anybody fighting while I'm sleeping either. A General needs his beauty sleep.
If the repro thread is for members only, once the pics are added just delete the original thread.
and besides the Candy boxes haven't hurt anyone.
When it is clear that the seller's intent is to deceive, it is a problem for all buyers.
I personally have no problem with a reproduction done right, and clearly marked as so. (EX.- the new Big Frankie) The problems arise when easily faked and garage repros are represented as real by people who know better, later down the line.
And then there's the image thieves. In my case, I have had the best in the business request photographs of this or that, which I supplied, only asking for credit for the photo. I've had these same people not only fail to put in the photo credit, but claim the piece is out of their collection. And I am talking some of the 'top dogs' in the general toy collecting field. If that doesn't frost your ass, I don't know what would.
Quote from: Monster Bob on January 28, 2009, 11:11:42 PM
And I can put 20 photos of a Hasbro Mummy game in an ebay auction, and you still couldn't produce a convincing fake.
Wanna bet?
Of course, if I didn't want to go to all that trouble, I could just take those pics and put up my own auction and take your money and send you nothing!
Quote from: Monster Bob on January 28, 2009, 11:44:58 PM
And then there's the image thieves. In my case, I have had the best in the business request photographs of this or that, which I supplied, only asking for credit for the photo. I've had these same people not only fail to put in the photo credit, but claim the piece is out of their collection. And I am talking some of the 'top dogs' in the general toy collecting field. If that doesn't frost your ass, I don't know what would.
That is lame. Especially if they made money off it. Were some of the pics in the MTC issue given the wrong credit?
Quote from: Monster Bob on January 28, 2009, 11:44:58 PM
And then there's the image thieves. In my case, I have had the best in the business request photographs of this or that, which I supplied, only asking for credit for the photo. I've had these same people not only fail to put in the photo credit, but claim the piece is out of their collection. And I am talking some of the 'top dogs' in the general toy collecting field. If that doesn't frost your ass, I don't know what would.
I personally know the feeling. I had a beautifully painted Aurora Bride Of Frankenstein kit that I was commissioned to paint for a mutual acquaintance years ago (you know him Bob), and this friend went ahead and entered the model in one of the modeling contests on the circuit. He ended up winning 1st place with my painted model! And no, he never gave me credit at all. He just kept quiet and said thank you to all those who were congratulating him! I was pissed! But I had some small comfort in knowing my work had won first place and not third. Now that would have really burned me. Frosted ass and then some.
All this talk of frosted ass is making me hungry...Gawd..what am I saying.
I thought Terry was going to bed. I was waiting to cause a ruckus after he dozed off. I will set brother against brother, friend against friend, rich against poor, man against woman, cat against dog. I will set loose a jiggler apocalypse, a soaky holocaust, a scorched landscape of plastic, rubber and charred cardboard. But only after Terry goes to bed.
Quote from: raycastile on January 29, 2009, 12:13:07 AM
I thought Terry was going to bed. I was waiting to cause a ruckus after he dozed off. I will set brother against brother, friend against friend, rich against poor, man against woman, cat against dog. I will set loose a jiggler apocalypse, a soaky holocaust, a scorched landscape of plastic, rubber and charred cardboard. But only after Terry goes to bed.
Quick, someone go poke Terry! Ray's off his meds again!
George
Quote from: raycastile on January 29, 2009, 12:13:07 AM
I will set brother against brother, friend against friend, rich against poor, man against woman, cat against dog. I will set loose a jiggler apocalypse, a soaky holocaust, a scorched landscape of plastic, rubber and charred cardboard. But only after Terry goes to bed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsTzWBSDRas&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsTzWBSDRas&feature=related)
...mother of mercy, they're toys; take the fun out, and there's nothing left...