Now admittedly I myself have often scoffed at the prices certain sellers have asked for monster and other collectibles on Ebay. This is particularly true for those items in which I have no interest, i.e. AHI, Lincoln and other monster action figures. (All of which of course came after my time....) Moreover to be fair I've also been both surprised and aghast at the prices certain items have ultimately fetched, and have ended up sneering at the speculative excesses in the marketplace for these items.
On top of that I have absolutely no sympathy for the speculators/investors to whom these collectibles mean nothing but their potential dollar value. In fact I always cheer for these speculators to be left holding the bag and take a financial bath on whatever they've purchased just to flip at a higher price.
I also don't entirely agree with the statement that "any item is worth whatever someone will pay". The problem I have is that the concept of "worth" implicitly involves making a value judgement and making a universal value judgement involves getting into someone else's head. All I can say about the value of any collectible is the price at which they're listed in various guides, the prices at which they've been trading and the price (if any) that I'd be willing to pay myself. I'm not willing to go into anyone else's head and make a judgement about how much an item would be "worth" to some other fellow though.
That being said, I also flatly disagree with the statements "It's just a piece of plastic. It's not gold." or "It's just paper." First of all those statements imply that objects have no value over and above that which they provide for strictly utilitarian survival purposes. Excuse me but we could all get by living in a tent on a diet of brown bread, beans and water. To say that something is just plastic is like saying Rembrandt's paintings are just coloured paper and should therefore be valued accordingly.
And for that matter why does gold fetch so high a price? It's utilitarian uses are very limited. Somewhere between 95% and 99% of all the gold that's ever been mined is still lying around in bank vaults as bars, safety deposit boxes and drawers as coins and jewellery boxes as various decorative trinkets. And only the tiniest fraction of the gold being mined every year ends up being used up in say electronic applications. The rest gets added to the pile put away and hoarded. So why does an ounce of gold fetch the price of nearly 465 pounds of butter today?
The answer is of course supply and demand. People for whatever reason have bid gold up in price. And with respect to collectibles the same dynamic is functioning, but with one crucial difference. In the area of monster collectibles specifically, there appear to be a few thousand determined collectors. Every one of these collectors wants the best specimen/toy available. Yet the quantity of mint in box/mint in package items may be as few as a dozen, or even one, or none at all! So who gets the item? Whoever can afford and is willing to bid the silliest price, that's who. And that's just fine with me.
The question that immediately arises of course is why there are so many collectors of these kids' toys from previous decades in the first place. What compels so many of us to amass this stuff? Once again, I can only speak for myself but I suppose it has something to do with not wanting to let go of the past, or at least those parts of the past that I once cherished. But why should I let go of those parts of my past? Child is father to the man. We're all a product/sum total of our experiences. Why should I let go of the particularly pleasant ones? And if I thought something was cool then, why should my opinion be any different now?
Now I know that my desire to reacquire the treasures of my youth could of course be further analyzed and dissected, but what's the point? All that needs to be said is that I take great delight in acquiring this stuff and having it in my possession leaves me with a profound sense of satisfaction/contentment. And that there is the bottom line.
Why then should I change? Because I'm an adult now and should be dignified and acquire adult tastes and preferences? So what would those be? Cigarettes, alcohol, marijuana and other drugs? Yeah, that would make sense. Piss my money away destroying brain cells and ruining my health. No thanks. I don't need to be that much of an adult. I'll continue to give reign to my "inner child" and bound up stairs two at a time like I did in my teens instead of taking escalators. I'll continue to sprint for buses and commuter trains like I did in my twenties. And I'll continue to add to my collections of kid stuff. I'll leave the sedentary mind damaging adult habits and stuff to everyone else.
And of course isn't it funny that all the kid stuff I've been buying for the past 35 years has not only held its price but appreciated - dramatically in many instances? How many of the other consumer items sold over the last 35 years have done so? Put whatever household item (even still M.I.B.) you bought five years ago up for sale on Kijiji. See what it fetches today.
So yeah, I plan to continue adding to my monster toys, model kits, board games, lunch boxes, comics, magazines, gum cards, etc. for the foreseeable future. Granted, I will continue to be careful not to overpay for items whose prices have been overinflated by speculators. These items are easy enough to recognize in many cases. I mean if the high bidder for an item on Ebay turns around and relists whatever he bought for an even higher price, that's a sure sign of speculation. The item would have sold for far less had he not been bidding in the previous auction. So I'll just scoff at many of these B.I.N. prices we see on Ebay.
But otherwise screw the philistines and naysayers. I hope to continue to add to whatever you see in the pictures below indefinitely:
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/Halloween%202013%20%20Deuce%20Styx%20Cowboy%20Cake/DSCN3173_zpsea8058c8.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/Halloween%202013%20%20Deuce%20Styx%20Cowboy%20Cake/DSCN3174_zpsea461e53.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/Halloween%202013%20%20Deuce%20Styx%20Cowboy%20Cake/DSCN3175_zpsed6841a4.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/Halloween%202013%20%20Deuce%20Styx%20Cowboy%20Cake/DSCN3176_zps0dde3de9.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/Halloween%202013%20%20Deuce%20Styx%20Cowboy%20Cake/DSCN3177_zps0d586899.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/Halloween%202013%20%20Deuce%20Styx%20Cowboy%20Cake/DSCN3166_zpscf9768ae.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/Halloween%202013%20%20Deuce%20Styx%20Cowboy%20Cake/DSCN3162_zps73be4eb4.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/HepcatComicsLazyBoy.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/Hepcatcheckingcomics.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/baseballcards.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/baseballcards2.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/AYoullDieLaughing-1.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/FunnyValentineCards.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/SpookStories.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/OuterLimitsCards.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/TerrorTales2.jpg)
;)
Incredibly impressive collection!!! I agree with most of the points you made. The only things I buy are items that I find aesthetically appealing with no intention of making a profit. That said, I have sold some items that went up so high in value that I couldn't say no.
Quote from: Hepcat on October 27, 2014, 04:22:55 PM
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/HepcatComicsLazyBoy.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/Hepcatcheckingcomics.jpg)
;)
Nice (long) post .. these are the pictures that I like the best .. ;D
Hi Hepcat...I absolutely understand what you are saying. For me, acquiring things I had as a child is a small part of it. If I had to pick a main reason, it is for the artistic aspect. I look at action figures and masks as art. I marvel at the sculpts. There is so much work and talent that goes into them. I keep 99% of my items in the package or with the tag. I feel that the packaging is part of the piece.
Ironically enough. I was just thinking today about what a small group of monster/horror collectors there are. When you consider how many people are in the world, the percentage is so low, it barely exists. Of course, most collectors are men. So the percentage of women that do this is so small, it's like there is not even enough to say there is a percentage.
As far as prices. There is one line of collectibles that I have mentioned quite a few times that are absolutely ridiculous in price. Those being the Kaiju figures. The prices of Godzilla and the like are so out of hand, I do not know how the market is continuing on. Figures sit, un sold for months or probably even years. I cannot understand the mentality of these the sellers. It seems they would rather charge twice or more what an item is seemingly worth and never sell it, rather than sell it and make a moderate profit. I mean is making no money better than making a moderate amount of it. I have so many examples of this. However, one primarily comes to mind. I had talked to a seller in Japan about a figure he was selling. In todays market, this figure is worth about $50. When the figure was first released back around the late 90's or early 2000's, it sold for maybe $20. Also, this figure is sort of considered a bootleg. Now, this seller is charging $210 plus international shipping. Basically selling a $50 for $230. I contacted him why was this particular one so expensive. He danced around an answer, not really saying anything that could be considered a valued explanation. Anyway, the figure has been sitting on ebay for probably 6- 7 months that I know about, could be longer. Also, still listed for $210. Meanwhile, about 4 months ago. I found one on ebay and payed, guess what? About $50. Just like I told the guy in Japan that the figure was worth. One other example is I saw 2 figures, same figure, same condition. One was $300 and the other was $700. I believe both were 1 page from each other.
thm
When the market speaks, sometimes it blows everyone away.
I posted images here on the Lunar Lander I bought in a resale shop. At the time, ebay had them going for $700. I sat on it for almost a year, until I saw one go for $1024. I waited a few weeks and put mine on ebay. It had the original box it was shipped in back in the 60s, and was MINT, but I thought it would go for under a grand. I was sure that the big dog had got his and the other guys would nibble on mine.
It went today for $1775!
We can sit and talk all day about what is over priced and what isn't, but if the market decides to rewrite history who are we to argue?
Im not going to lie - I didnt read the whole first post - But I read most of it... (I have A.D.D. with long posts so I speed read them!)
I agree with a lot of the points - only with exception to few. I admit, I dont collect with future value in mind - But I dont ignore that either... Several of our items involve a substantial investment in funds - and to most of us, money IS an object - so I try to buy smartly so I can (ideally) at least get my money BACK...
Collecting is a strange thing - When I collected Movie props, I was offered a "Dragoon" flintlock from Pirates of the Caribbean that Johnny Depp had used. The seller wanted several thousand dollars.
Now, I own a REAL antique Dragoon, and IT wasnt worth as much as this plastic replica that was used in a movie and held by Johnny Depp for a few days. That seemed really strange to me.... A real historical antique, not worth as much as a modern replica - Just because someone held it in a movie. (I think they wanted 3500$ for it, and the real one was in the 2000$ value range)
I also dont agree with "Its worth what someone is willing to pay" - I mean look at trends over the years , and especially ebay... Beanie Babies, etc... Things people paid thousands for, worth pennies today...
The psychology of collecting is interesting no matter what way you look at it.
Quote from: tylerh on October 28, 2014, 03:47:52 PMI'm not going to lie - I didnt read the whole first post....
Well did you look at the pictures anyway?
Quote from: tylerh on October 28, 2014, 03:47:52 PMI also dont agree with "Its worth what someone is willing to pay" - I mean look at trends over the years , and especially ebay... Beanie Babies, etc... Things people paid thousands for, worth pennies today....
Beanie Babies are a classic case study of the madness of crowds. The human tendency to extrapolate recent trends ad infinitum and the resultant "piling on" phenomena creates price bubbles. When these burst, all that remains is hot air.
The Beanie Babies proved to be a surprisingly popular product when they hit the market in 1993. The Ty company not surprisingly ceased production of the least popular designs as it introduced newer designs that it hoped would be bigger hits. But the product line was still growing in popularity. Newer Beanie Baby fans were willing to pay a premium(!) to acquire some of the designs they could no longer find in stores. This caught the attention of the speculator/investor crowd, who piled in and pushed prices even higher, a lot higher! (Remember that the nineties were the decade when the broader public became aware of the price that the American Tobacco Company Honus Wagner 1909 baseball card was fetching.) Some people were sucked into "investing" in Beanie Babies to finance their kids' education, which pushed prices even higher. These people were blissfully unaware that prices don't increase unless demand exceeds supply. And even the "retired" Beanie Babies were in relatively plentiful supply. Their numbers had not been reduced by any meaningful destruction factor which is the key to price appreciation for nostalgia items. Moreover, with demand augmented by speculator interest, how was demand to grow further? So of course the bubble burst by the end of the century and "investors" were left holding the bean bag.
:laugh:
History (or people) repeating.
Read up on the tulip mania of the 1600's sometime.
I have. What was particularly insane about that one is that the supply of tulip bulbs could be increased exponentially, yet this detail didn't prevent the mania from taking hold anyway!
:o
Remember cabbage patch kids?;D
thm
Yes, Cabbage Patch Kids were indeed enormously popular but I don't remember there being insane price speculation in that toy line. I don't think they were being bought as an "investment".
:-\
Ah! Brother Hep! We dig all the same stuff Cat! Who do i have to kill for that MONSTER RALLY record? LOL! STELLAR COLLECTION!
"The value of something is what someone is willing to pay" is a gross oversimplification. There is a commonly accepted range of value for a given item based on several different factors, the most important factor being what it has commonly sold for in the past. Other factors are perceived scarcity and demand, price guides, commonly seen asking prices, and the common idea that things should increase in value over time.
The "what someone is willing to pay" enters into the value range, but nobody is going to give 100 times the common market value for an item just because they want it badly (barring total idiocy of course). The buyer will just wait until a more reasonably priced example is found. All of this being relative a buyer may give several times "market value" for an item if they are wild about the item and it's scarce enough to not turn up very often. That's usually the reason some of these items become so valuable in the first place, the cumulative effect of high demand/low supply over time. Likewise, sought after items usually bring good prices at auction because there are usually people who bid the item up who either want it for themselves or would purchase it for resale.
We are all so connected now with the internet, and especially eBay, this commonly accepted range of value for a given item is pretty well understood among collectors even if there are no current price guides available which give a value for the item. Once in a lifetime you might get lucky and find a Strange Candy Bucket for 5 bucks, but usually the old commonly accepted range of value (carov) kicks in and you have to drop 400 bucks to a grand on a nice example.
Quote from: freddie poe on October 30, 2014, 02:39:29 PMAh! Brother Hep! We dig all the same stuff Cat!
Perhaps we were separated at birth?
???
Quote from: freddie poe on October 30, 2014, 02:39:29 PMWho do i have to kill for that MONSTER RALLY record? LOL!
You know you might try checking a few used record stores. I think you might find one, or more! Plus some other cool collectible monster LPs!
:)
Here's a Monster Rally album for a hundred bucks on eBay. There is also a re-issue on there with the slightly different cover for 50. Both are a little beat, but they are scarce now, and that Jack Davis cover is truly awesome.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Monster-Rally-Hans-Conried-Alice-Pearce-RCA-Victor-LP-Record-Halloween-Horror-/201180015450?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item2ed7436b5a (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Monster-Rally-Hans-Conried-Alice-Pearce-RCA-Victor-LP-Record-Halloween-Horror-/201180015450?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item2ed7436b5a)
My Dad gave mine to me back in the '60s. He worked in a small radio station in Dalton Ga. and saved it from being tossed out. I still have it and several other monster LPs. I made a cassette tape of it and some others 30 years ago and listen to it every Halloween. I just heard the tape in my car a couple of days ago and it still sounds great! tynhrt
Quote from: horrorhunter on October 30, 2014, 04:35:34 PMMy Dad gave mine(Monster Rally LP) to me back in the '60s. He worked in a small radio station in Dalton Ga. and saved it from being tossed out. I still have it and several other monster LPs. I made a cassette tape of it and some others 30 years ago and listen to it every Halloween. I just heard the tape in my car a couple of days ago and it still sounds great!
It's so cool to still have a treasured object from one's formative years in one's possession!
Here are a couple close-up photos of my present day copy:
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/General%20Album%202/MonsterRallyLP.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/General%20Album%202/MonsterRallyLPBackcover.jpg)
And here's a more detailed picture of the sleeve that I lifted off the net:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_75ptQuFbEv0/TKcrJkZmDAI/AAAAAAAAFfU/S2YDW_2nTms/s1600/P4110020.JPG)
cl:)
Quote from: horrorhunter on October 30, 2014, 04:35:34 PMI made a cassette tape of it and some others 30 years ago and listen to it every Halloween.
I play this CD for the benefit of both the trick or treaters and myself every Halloween:
(http://scene7.targetimg1.com/is/image/Target/11376311?wid=480&hei=480)
Here's one of my favourite tracks:
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=790tuBXnx-8#)
tynhrt
Quote from: Hepcat on November 30, 2016, 04:39:30 PM
I play this CD for the benefit of both the trick or treaters and myself every Halloween:
(http://scene7.targetimg1.com/is/image/Target/11376311?wid=480&hei=480)
Here's one of my favourite tracks:
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=790tuBXnx-8#)
tynhrt
Such an awesome cd.
Balance in all things...
No one cherishes Personal Worth more than I do; at age 59 1/2, some of my most dearly treasured possessions include things like a battered set of View-Master reels of "The Nativity" that I got when I was three or four, and a worn stuffed Yogi Bear from the same era.
But -
- The Wife and I are executors of veteran actor Arthur Anderson's estate. He and his wife accumulated all manner of things over their approx. 90 year lives. And I can testify that after the family & friends, libraries, and Salvation Army take what they want, there is still a remnant that must by necessity "go the way of all flesh."
These things can have wondrous auras. But if that feeling is not shared by others when they pass from our ownership, they return to their roots as Just Things.
Best,
-Craig
Quote from: Wich2 on December 01, 2016, 08:30:30 AM- The Wife and I are executors of veteran actor Arthur Anderson's estate. He and his wife accumulated all manner of things over their approx. 90 year lives. And I can testify that after the family & friends, libraries, and Salvation Army take what they want, there is still a remnant that must by necessity "go the way of all flesh."
These things can have wondrous auras. But if that feeling is not shared by others when they pass from our ownership, they return to their roots as Just Things.
Why does the disposition of the articles Arthur Anderson and his wife accumulated over their lives matter? If no one wants these articles now, so be it.
???
What's key is that they added richness and delight to the lives of the couple while they were alive.
cl:)
I'm sorry you didn't get my point, Hep.
My wife and I were almost family with the Andersons, and they handed over to us a sacred trust: to try to place the memorabilia garnered by them over their long, full lives in appreciative hands...
Props from Broadway shows. Scripts from Golden Age of Television episodes. Items from rare Commercials. Studio recordings of Classic Era radio.
And to them, "the key" was that, if any of this stuff did indeed have any worth, that would last beyond just their lives.
-Craig
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16387908_1482773538413256_3837786063169680494_n.jpg?oh=892b8291f4be419d8a3abddcbb2c30b5&oe=591A9670)
(PHOTO: BARBARA MERTENS PRIMOSCH)
Quote from: Wich2 on January 27, 2017, 03:49:35 PMAnd to them, "the key" was that, if any of this stuff did indeed have any worth, that would last beyond just their lives.
But that's just it. That's not my key. My key is the delight, satisfaction, comfort, etc. my collections provide me with today while I'm still alive.
And if my heirs don't feel the same way about my collections, they can always opt to sell them to someone who might appreciate them more.
???
That's your right, hep, and I never said it wasn't. It's a big world.
As far as your saying,
"if my heirs don't feel the same way about my collections, they can always opt to sell them to someone who might appreciate them more."
I had just written,
"they handed over to us a sacred trust: to try to place the memorabilia garnered by them over their long, full lives in appreciative hands."
So I guess we agree more than you seem to think.
Best,
-Craig
Typically I don't bother to even show my collections to house guests unless I'm aware that they have the collecting gene. Otherwise the conversations would tend to go something like this:
GUEST - So how much is all of this stuff worth?
>:(
HEPCAT - What does it matter? It's not about the money for me.
GUEST - But what are you going to do with this stuff when you die?
::)
HEPCAT - Nothing. I'll be dead. I won't be doing much of anything then.
GUEST - I mean have you ever thought of selling your collections now to buy something you can enjoy?
::)
HEPCAT - That's actually why I have these items. I enjoy having them! They bring me satisfaction and delight.
Oh, and by the way, what would you propose that I do with the money I get for my collectibles? Spend it on beer, wine and pot like you do leaving nothing other than a few more dead brain cells?
;)
Quote from: Hepcat on March 30, 2017, 09:24:15 AM
Typically I don't bother to even show my collections to house guests unless I'm aware that they have the collecting gene.
I'm very choosy about who I show my stuff to as well. Unless they have a genuine interest in older toys, comics, or monsters, it's really a waste of time that would probably result in a negative experience. It would probably be a flurry of silly questions as you mentioned, or it could even make your home the target of thieves if the wrong people found out about it.
Since I moved a few years ago I've really only shown my collection to two people. One was an older relative who was helping out with some family problems. She always seemed fairly reasonable and intelligent so I showed her some of my displayed collection. She got that
deer in the headlights look and jumped to an unsavory conclusion about
violence toward women?! WTF? She saw my original Terry Beatty painting of the cover of Scary Monsters #39 with Dracula holding the lady and jumped to that distasteful conclusion. I was thunderstruck! I ended that tour really quickly and never offered to show her anything else monster related. Her reaction came from a combination of ignorance and religious zeal which is problematic and has historically led to nothing but trouble.
The other time I showed my stuff was to a fellow monster enthusiast with whom I had watched monster movies and talked on the phone several times. This fellow had a large collection of movies and books himself but he was hung up on his family being poor. I thought he would appreciate seeing my stuff but this guy turned green with envy and began acting strangely. He started handling my books without asking first, then he became downright rude and started saying things like "what if there's a fire, do you just start throwing all this stuff out the window?" sarcastically. It was very surreal the way he changed. He went from being a monster buddy to a rude *sshole, and then he started almost demanding to borrow things. He knew up front that I don't loan or borrow (I've had bad experiences with that in the past and I just don't do it now), but yet he insisted on borrowing things. After that fiasco I was sorry I showed him anything in the first place. I haven't been in contact with that person for a long time which is a good thing.
Showing pics on UMA and discussing our stuff here is by far the best way to interact with fellow collectors, at least according to my personal experience. I would love to find a few like minded people to share the whole monster collecting/movie watching thing with but it just hasn't been in the cards up to now. If not for the internet in general, and UMA in particular, there would be no social interaction regarding this stuff as far as I'm concerned.
Quote from: horrorhunter on March 30, 2017, 11:26:51 AM...or it could even make your home the target of thieves if the wrong people found out about it.
Indeed! That's another very real concern of mine. My neighbours know nothing about my collections and that's the way I prefer to keep it. And that's also why I like the relative anonymity of posting handles.
:)
I can appreciate and agree with these last couple posts. I don't talk very much about my collection with people who don't also collect or share my passion for Halloween/horror/monster stuff. A lot of people just don't care, and Im perfectly ok with that. No reason to annoy them lol. Plus like the previous post said, the more people know what you have, the more chance for sticky fingers. I love my collection, I appreciate and am grateful for the fact that I can even have a collection and a home to put it in. I do hope that when Im dead and gone, my things wind up with other people who appreciate them (of course that will be well out of my control, unless I come back to haunt 'em ;) ).
Quote from: the_horror_man on October 29, 2014, 02:18:09 PM
Remember cabbage patch kids?;D
thm
Oh man does that bring back a memory. I was in Chicago doing some recording with my band at the height of the Cabbage Patch Kids craze. I was listening to the radio and the DJ was telling a story of how they broadcasted a joke about them. They said on the air that if people went to Wrigley Field at a predesignated time an airplane would fly over head. When you see the plane hold up your credit card and they would air drop you a doll. The kicker was that people actually believed it and showed up. :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaQuxCWWTaI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaQuxCWWTaI)
I had to have some extensive plumbing work done on Monday and wasn't very comfortable with he two plumbers working in the same room my collection was stored in. The guy that came out to do the estimate was overly impressed, so I am glad he wasn't there for the work. They had no idea that the stuff on display was the tip of the iceberg.
I hate for people I don't know to see my collection in person, but don't mind showing some things on Facebook.
Facebook!!! What about showing some of your items to us here on UMA?
:o
Quote from: Hepcat on April 08, 2017, 11:57:49 AM
Facebook!!! What about showing some of your items to us here on UMA?
:o
Yeah, I don't know why so many people assume everyone is on Facebook. I'm not, and I don't plan to be. There are disadvantages to divulging too much on such a widely used social forum. That's why I like UMA. We can post here in relative anonymity without unknowingly becoming the target of
unwanted attention. No public forum is completely safe, but an
out of the way little board like UMA is certainly preferable to the
spotlight that is freakin' Facebook. ::)
Quote from: horrorhunter on April 08, 2017, 12:34:43 PMYeah, I don't know why so many people assume everyone is on Facebook.
Facebook is the enemy, the Evil Empire!
>:(
Quote from: Hepcat on April 08, 2017, 12:42:48 PM
Facebook is the enemy, the Evil Empire!
>:(
FB truly is evil.
Quote from: Hepcat on October 27, 2014, 04:22:55 PMI also don't entirely agree with the statement that "any item is worth whatever someone will pay". The problem I have is that the concept of "worth" implicitly involves making a value judgement and making a universal value judgement involves getting into someone else's head. All I can say about the value of any collectible is the price at which they're listed in various guides, the prices at which they've been trading and the price (if any) that I'd be willing to pay myself. I'm not willing to go into anyone else's head and make a judgement about how much an item would be "worth" to some other fellow though.
I think my underlying problem with the statement that "any item is worth whatever someone will pay" is that it's very common for collectors to own items which because of the connection to their own individual psyches are worth far more to them than whatever price anyone
else will pay. For example, a certain comic magazine may be listed in Overstreet at $3000 in NM. You however still have the much read, enjoyed and therefore mauled copy you bought as a kid (with your initials written on the cover!) in your possession today. To you that comic is worth a mint because it's among your most prized possessions. Yet nobody else would pay you even $200 for that comic. So what is that comic "worth"? I'd argue that it's worth whatever price it would take to get you to sell it less $1.
And that's also why I have no interest in programs such as
Antiques Roadshow. How much items are worth to someone else is irrelevant to me.
:-\
Quote from: Hepcat on June 17, 2020, 09:37:35 AM
I think my underlying problem with the statement that "any item is worth whatever someone will pay" is that it's very common for collectors to own items which because of the connection to their own individual psyches are worth far more to them than whatever price anyone else will pay.
They all still fall under the umbrella of "someone". There's always going to be a high bidder. What their motivations are is irrelevant.
Keep in mind that I'm not saying the owner is looking for bidders, and the term "high bidder" implicitly assumes someone other than the owner. What I'm saying is that if the owner would not part with a certain item for less than $1500, than that item is "worth" $1500 (less a penny perhaps) even if nobody else would be willing to bid even $25. An item is worth whatever it would take to "tempt" it out of someone's possession.
:)
Quote from: Hepcat on June 17, 2020, 01:22:05 PM
What I'm saying is that if the owner would not part with a certain item for less than $1500, than that item is "worth" $1500
I don't know
anybody that figures an items worth that way? You go by what thing
has sold for, not by the guy who "wouldn't take a million buck for" his.
Hi Hep. I've posted a few times in the past about values, or even perceived values on things and my thoughts. If anybody has been following a few items recently on e-bay, there has been quite some activity on a few items. Check to see the closing price on the Bestsellers magazine with the Aurora poster intact inside, from 1964, or the latest speaker head with the box that was listed a while back for upper 4 figures which was probably sold, just to name a few. Are these items worth it?? Only the person buying can answer.
Quote from: skully on June 17, 2020, 03:09:51 PM
Check to see the closing price on the Bestsellers magazine with the Aurora poster intact inside
What are those going for, now?
Hi Mike. Well, I think the example that was just sold recently on e-bay went between 5 and 6 thousand dollars!! The magazine is rare especially with the poster intact with the Aurora King Kong and Godzilla. I remember passing on a few of them back in the day for upper 3 figures, guess I should have bought them. I remember paying low 4 figures for my Shock Theatre television movie book with spiral binding and pop-up Frankenstein thinking I over-paid for it, but now I wonder?
Quote from: skully on June 17, 2020, 04:10:49 PM
I think the example that was just sold recently on e-bay went between 5 and 6 thousand dollars!!
Yikes! Those have really gone up since last I looked!
Quote from: skully on June 17, 2020, 04:10:49 PM
I remember paying low 4 figures for my Shock Theatre television movie book . .
That's why I bought the MFTV reprint for $20. :)
Quote from: Mike Scott on June 17, 2020, 02:46:22 PMI don't know anybody that figures an items worth that way?
Actually every collector views his items that way. Otherwise he wouldn't be accumulating items with no "intrinsic" value.
Quote from: Mike Scott on June 17, 2020, 02:46:22 PMYou go by what thing has sold for, not by the guy who "wouldn't take a million buck for" his.
But that's precisely the point at which I'm getting. The reason I hate discussions of "worth" is because the subject isn't objective. It's subjective. And my own key determining factor is an item's worth/value to me, not to anybody else. And I am of course willing to extend the same privilege/logic to anybody else's items. If the item is worth that much to the owner, that's what it's "worth" and I'll concede its value. I'm simply saying that the worth of an item at any point of time is a function of its utility to the owner, as opposed to that of the casual observer.
This of course in no way implies that I must/will pay what the owner feels the item is "worth" if he is trying to sell the item to me. What I'll pay is a function of the utility/value of the item to me.
cl:)
One thing I hate when dealing with "worth" is when the person believes their item is worth more than it is. I usually come across this at flea markets where people, who don't know about the item, find the most expensive one on Ebay and think theirs is worth the same. And when you try and explain it to them they think you're trying to get over on them.
Truth. And there's a fine line between the self-deluded and scam artists. As soon as a huckster, amateur or professional, has an item to sell the word "mint" becomes as common a part of his lexicon as that in the prototypical used car salesman's.
:(
Quote from: Hepcat on June 17, 2020, 09:38:52 PM
Truth. And there's a fine line between the self-deluded and scam artists. As soon as a huckster, amateur or professional, has an item to sell the word "mint" becomes as common a part of his lexicon as that in the prototypical used car salesman's.
:(
Lol, everyone thinks their item is mint. If they're just an amateur seller I try, as nicely as possible, to explain condition and how it affects price. Not many listen. I once seen an Image comic at the flea market for $20 in mint condition. It was a comic I've seen in mint condition a thousand time for like 50 cents. Sometimes dealers just try and give them away. Anyway, I tried to explain this to the seller, but they told me they knew how much the comic was worth and that I was wrong. Three years later the comic was still there, lol.
Quote from: BigShadow on June 17, 2020, 10:23:44 PMAnyway, I tried to explain this to the seller, but they told me they knew how much the comic was worth and that I was wrong. Three years later the comic was still there, lol.
Did you casually inquire three years later whether he'd observed any fluctuations in the market for the Image comic?
;D
A great example of actual value vs perceived value is the current listing of an original sealed Aurora Creature kit currently on e-bay for 10,000 dollars. In the description the seller admits it's a "little" high priced, but you can e-mail him to discuss. I honestly don't know if the seller actually intends to sell this for that money or is willing to negotiate price, however at that price he will still own it for a long time.
Quote from: Hepcat on June 17, 2020, 11:41:16 PM
Did you casually inquire three years later whether he'd observed any fluctuations in the market for the Image comic?
;D
I did not. Just shook my head as I walked by. My pet peeve is when something is in VG condition and the seller says it's Mint. :o
About fifteen years ago I saw a picture of a set of Golden Book Encyclopedias on Ebay with very obvious wear. Yet the description listed them as being in "Mint" condition. When I inquired, the seller replied that they were in mint condition because there were no pages missing! Talk about setting a low bar for oneself.
::)
Quote from: Mike Scott on June 17, 2020, 02:46:22 PMYou go by what thing has sold for, not by the guy who "wouldn't take a million buck for" his.
I have serious underlying problems with the statement that "any item is worth only whatever someone will pay". My reservation/difficulty is that such a concept of "worth" implicitly involves making a universal value judgement and that involves getting into everyone else's head. But this is impossible. I can't tell anybody else how much a certain item "should" be worth to them. What I can say about the "value" of any collectible is the price at which these are listed in various guides, the prices at which they've been trading and the price (if any) that I'd be willing to pay myself. I'm not willing to go into anyone else's head and make a judgement about how much an item might be "worth" to that other fellow though.
Therefore I resent my collectibles being effectively devalued by their being subjected to someone else's yardstick of value, i.e. what someone else is willing to pay. If I'm not out to sell my items, other people's assessment of their worth doesn't come into play. If my items were not worth a lot more to me than what someone else was willing to pay, well logically I would have sold them by now and they would not be in my possession currently. The fact that I own them is a clear indication that they're worth more to me than whatever somebody else is willing to pay.
If of course I've put an item up for sale, then everyone else's subjective assessment of worth would come into play. But only then.
I also flatly disagree with the statements "It's just paper." or "It's just a piece of plastic. It's not gold." First of all those statements imply that objects have no value over and above that which they provide for strictly utilitarian survival purposes. Excuse me but we could all get by living in a tent on a diet of brown bread, beans and water. To say that something is just paper or plastic is like saying Rembrandt's paintings are just coloured paper and should therefore be valued accordingly.
cl:)
I sold a monster item for 2k and the buyer subsequently listed it on eBay and sold it for over 4300... you never know.
(http://thegalleryofmonstertoys.com/60swing/poptop.jpg)
Quote from: Allhallowsday on August 18, 2020, 11:00:56 PMI sold a monster item for 2k and the buyer subsequently listed it on eBay and sold it for over 4300....
:o
Hopefully it wasn't to a fellow UMA member who implied that the Pop-Top Horror set was one of his holy grail items that he'd been trying to track down for many years.
:(
Quote from: Hepcat on August 19, 2020, 11:28:08 AM
:o
Hopefully it wasn't to a fellow UMA member who implied that the Pop-Top Horror set was one of his holy grail items that he'd been trying to track down for many years.
:(
No. However, it was sold to a UMA member who paid my price. I have no complaint.