Universal Monster Army

Chitter Chatter => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mego Stretch Hulk on June 01, 2013, 04:29:46 AM

Title: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Mego Stretch Hulk on June 01, 2013, 04:29:46 AM
Comic Books are a true American art form that have been produced by some of the greatest creators ever to hold a pencil or paintbrush. While many can be considered geniuses for the sheer amount of  brilliance they have created, two names rise above all the others due to the unparalleled influence they possess. Those two titans of the medium are none other than Jack Kirby and Alex Toth. Their work has stretched decades throughout many genres and continue to inspire creators and fans alike. But which one has the right to be called the one true "KING" of comic books? For the first time ever, Jack Kirby and Alex Toth will be analytically broken down and compared head-to-head as we try to discover the truth. Enjoy a comprehensive and fresh look at these two legends in a way that is reminiscent of the superhero excitement that they are so famous for. Hero Envy presents: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: The Definitive Write Up on Proving Who's the Real King of Comics!


http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2013/06/jack-kirby-vs-alex-toth.html (http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2013/06/jack-kirby-vs-alex-toth.html)
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: tv horror on June 01, 2013, 09:53:00 AM
Nice article I enjoyed reading it but I have to say Kirby still has the edge. There was always a sort of 3D quality to his work that if you pardon the pun stuck out.  With being a lifelong fan of comics I can pick out certain traits unique to each artist I wonder if that's what makes them good or more noticeable, certainly I love looking at them and I do tend to seek their work out afterwards. I myself love Ditko but again it was Adams and Kirby who captured my imagination. The other funny thing that I noticed was I would always copy Ditko in my drawings. 
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Wich2 on June 01, 2013, 12:40:42 PM
They're Karloff and Lugosi, Washington and Lincoln, Laurel and Hardy.

One isn't "better" than the other; "better" in such cases doesn't even make sense!

-Craig
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Scary Terry on June 01, 2013, 04:32:46 PM
I admire Toth greatly -- heck, my first comic was the Flash/Atom issue of Brave & Bold he drew -- but he doesn't begin to have the influence in the comics field that Kirby had.  If there's an either/or question, it's not Kirby/Toth, it's Kirby/Eisner.
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Mego Stretch Hulk on June 02, 2013, 05:59:32 AM
Quote from: Scary Terry on June 01, 2013, 04:32:46 PM
I admire Toth greatly -- heck, my first comic was the Flash/Atom issue of Brave & Bold he drew -- but he doesn't begin to have the influence in the comics field that Kirby had.  If there's an either/or question, it's not Kirby/Toth, it's Kirby/Eisner.


Nice!!!
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Paladin on June 02, 2013, 07:17:13 AM
This is sort of like making a choice between Johnny Unitas or Joe Montana- one simply can't lose either way.
Quote from: Wich2 on June 01, 2013, 12:40:42 PM
They're Karloff and Lugosi, Washington and Lincoln, Laurel and Hardy.

One isn't "better" than the other; "better" in such cases doesn't even make sense!

-Craig

I agree.
It's sort of making a choice of either Joe Montana or Johnny Unitas- one simply can't lose either way.
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: marsattacks666 on June 02, 2013, 12:53:25 PM
Not a fair choice.  :(
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Hepcat on June 02, 2013, 04:05:24 PM
Quote from: Scary Terry on June 01, 2013, 04:32:46 PM
I admire Toth greatly -- heck, my first comic was the Flash/Atom issue of Brave & Bold he drew --

I bought that one too! Here's a scan of my present copy:

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/Comics/03-06-201185527PM.jpg) (http://media.photobucket.com/user/Balticprince/media/Comics/03-06-201185527PM.jpg.html)

:)
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Mego Stretch Hulk on June 02, 2013, 06:24:10 PM
Quote from: Hepcat on June 02, 2013, 04:05:24 PM
I bought that one too! Here's a scan of my present copy:

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/Comics/03-06-201185527PM.jpg) (http://media.photobucket.com/user/Balticprince/media/Comics/03-06-201185527PM.jpg.html)

:)

Awesome!!!
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: CreepysFan on June 03, 2013, 04:14:48 AM
  Really tough choice, Mego......I have to choose Wally Wood.....or Jack Davis.  Oh crap, there's just too many individual artist's styles I like to choose a definite king.
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Mego Stretch Hulk on June 03, 2013, 06:59:14 AM
Quote from: CreepysFan on June 03, 2013, 04:14:48 AM
  Really tough choice, Mego......I have to choose Wally Wood.....or Jack Davis.  Oh crap, there's just too many individual artist's styles I like to choose a definite king.

Wally Wood was unbelievable...and to think, he hated his work which eventually lead to him committing suicide...sad story.
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: MDG on June 03, 2013, 08:28:37 AM
Gotta agree that in terms of overall influence, Kirby has it over Toth. In some ways, Kirby probably brought people into the storytelling aspects of to the point that, later, many of them would come to find and appreciate Toth, but Kirby's influence was huge in the 60s and 70s, and lingers in comics today.

That said, I personally prefer Toth.
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Wich2 on June 03, 2013, 10:34:03 AM
I know more fans might pick Kirby - but I've read Toth's name as influential on SO many artist's lists.

And though I maybe even prefer to read a Kirby tale (well, when he was at his best, at least), Toth actually seems to have a bit more pure storytelling ability and draftsman chops.

Jack just wows us with more thunder and lightning!

-Craig
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Mego Stretch Hulk on June 03, 2013, 10:39:48 AM
So true. Kirby's name is much more famous and stands for comics so Toth get's pushed to the side because of it. But when you start getting educated on them you realize just how big and influencial Toth really was.
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Haunted hearse on June 04, 2013, 09:41:06 PM
Of course, Toth influence goes beyond comics alone.  He designed a number of notable Hanna Barbera cartoons (Space Ghost and Herculoid) that some of us grew up with.  I'm more an EC fan myself, and I'd be hard picked to choose between Jack Davies(who also designed the cast of "Mad Monster Party) and Ghastly Grahm Ingles.  But as far as Kirby and Toth are concerned, I think they were equally excelent at designing the kind of comic characters they were both noted for.
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Mego Stretch Hulk on June 08, 2013, 03:20:00 AM
Will Eisner is another guy that could be up here...but other than The Spirit, what other character has he created that has that "timeless" relevance?
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Wich2 on June 08, 2013, 08:00:29 AM
Eisner created or co-created many other characters, including Blackhawk. But his legend rests as much on his overall career, as on any one character.

His was there at the beginning of comic books, and there at his end with graphic novels. And throughout, he was a major influence and mentor to other artists & writers.

-Craig
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Haunted hearse on June 08, 2013, 11:55:46 AM
Quote from: Mego Stretch Hulk on June 08, 2013, 03:20:00 AM
Will Eisner is another guy that could be up here...but other than The Spirit, what other character has he created that has that "timeless" relevance?
Besides his work for EC comics and Mad Magazine, wasn't he part of the team that created Playboy's "Little Annie Fannie"?  I think he may have also been one of the creators behind PM magazine (for the US military) of Connie Rod.
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Wich2 on June 08, 2013, 12:30:50 PM
That's Will ELDER, HH.

Best,
-Craig
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Haunted hearse on June 08, 2013, 02:56:25 PM
Quote from: Wich2 on June 08, 2013, 12:30:50 PM
That's Will ELDER, HH.

Best,
-Craig
Thank you.
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Mego Stretch Hulk on June 08, 2013, 04:55:25 PM
Quote from: Wich2 on June 08, 2013, 08:00:29 AM
Eisner created or co-created many other characters, including Blackhawk. But his legend rests as much on his overall career, as on any one character.

His was there at the beginning of comic books, and there at his end with graphic novels. And throughout, he was a major influence and mentor to other artists & writers.

-Craig

Yes he was, but many of those he helped surpassed him when it came to pure creativity.
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Wich2 on June 08, 2013, 06:36:27 PM
I would have to respectfully disagree with you there, MSH.

His peers didn't name their industry's Oscar "The Eisner Award" as a jest.

-Craig
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Mego Stretch Hulk on June 09, 2013, 08:30:44 AM

Never said he doesn't have a ton of influence...and rightly so.
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: tv horror on June 09, 2013, 05:28:32 PM
There is also Gene Colan and his Dracula series, his pencil work was out of this World. Again John Romita's Spider-man was fantastic.
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Wich2 on June 09, 2013, 08:55:13 PM
If we're mentioning faves, I always thought the best of Jim Aparo was quietly wonderful.
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Mego Stretch Hulk on June 10, 2013, 04:02:30 PM
Actually Gil Kane with John Romita inks is the definitive Spider-man for me!!
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Hepcat on June 10, 2013, 04:18:26 PM
Quote from: Wich2 on June 09, 2013, 08:55:13 PMIf we're mentioning faves, I always thought the best of Jim Aparo was quietly wonderful.

Jim Aparo is much underrated.

:)
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Hepcat on June 10, 2013, 04:20:02 PM
Quote from: Mego Stretch Hulk on June 10, 2013, 04:02:30 PMActually Gil Kane with John Romita inks is the definitive Spider-man for me!!

That's because you're a Bronze Age guy. It's Steve Ditko for me.


Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Wich2 on June 10, 2013, 06:15:49 PM
Now see, Gil Kane (who I like in general) is the Green Lantern guy, for me!

I go with Ditko for Spidey, too (for me, Steve made him look unique among heroes, but Romita's is built like every other hero.)

Will we're doing dream matches:

- Joe Kubert - HAWKMAN, TARZAN

- Jim Aparo, Jerry Robinson, Lou Sayre Schwartz, Dick Sprang - BATMAN

- Jack Kirby - THOR, FF

- Carmine Infantino - FLASH

- Curt Swan with George Klein, Wayne Boring - SUPERMAN

Best,
-Craig
Title: Re: Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth: Who's the Real King of Comic Books?
Post by: Mego Stretch Hulk on June 11, 2013, 05:33:11 AM
Quote from: Hepcat on June 10, 2013, 04:20:02 PM
That's because you're a Bronze Age guy. It's Steve Ditko for me.


Yup. When I was a kid growing up in the late 70's, that was the standard Spider-man that was on all the packages of all the merchandise that were in stores...and it was glorious!