What are the important elements that no longer exists in modern fantasy films? Why do we cherish classic cinema so badly? Much has to do with nostalgia and our childhood, but the reasons are deeper than that.
Too much technique? Not enough magic?
I would say too much reliance on CGI and wire-work stunts, and too little time building empathy with the audience. As visually spectacular as CGI can be, they tend to be pushed to the extreme (think of Van Helsing, a movie I felt wasted it's potential with endless implausible CGI-based stunts). If one CGI monster is good, dozens must be better, even though the eye has trouble registering what it's seeing with the shakey, quick-edit camera-work they use. A hero can't just fight a monster, it must do several back-flips over the monster, and probably pause in mid-air for a while. Tough to relate to a hero / heroine who doesn't even seem human to the audience.
I think part of the problem that a lot of movies are "takes" on familiar tropes of the 30s-70s; even if it's not a remake, it feels like a reaction/response to something else.
And as Paupsy said, too little time to build empathy--too much time "looking at stuff" as opposed to "watching a story." Even a movie as lame (monster-wise) as Beast with 1,000,000 Eyes spent time building the characters and their relationships (probably because the monster itself was lame.)
Definitely too much icing and not enough cake. No wonder the industry is that sick.
This doesn't answer your question, but it seems like every action film has to have a matrix-like fight scene, all the monsters have to sound like Predator (like in Super 8), etc.
Even though the classic monsters *are* monsters I still had sympathy for them. Freddy, Jason, etc. I had zero sympathy for. they were just killing machines. Lon Chaney Jr I think really worked this well into his portrayal of Larry Talbot. You felt for the guy because he didn't enjoy having to rip folk's throats out every full moon.
Modern movies don't have the levels of suspence the classic movies did. I think sometime in the seventies suspence was traded off for shock value. On SOME modern horror movies I'm left wondering if the script was written around the effects and monster ideas, instead of the script coming first.
Nostalgia plays a large part.
Kids today will remember the new movies like we do with the classics. Just think kids today will love the new NOES 20 years from now, because it scared them when they first saw it. We dismiss it, because it's nonsense. I've said it before, how kids in my school love the Scream character. Chucky frightens them. Those will be their nostalgic moments.
When everything is virtual reality in the future, they will say things like "remember the old days of just CG on a TV screen?"
Good points, everyone. In addition, I think story/plot & character development often suffers in contemporary films. It's been replaced by a premise, then padded w/non-stop action & CGI.
I've enjoyed (some) modern films, but, & I've said this, it's like a candy bar. It's good while I'm eating it, but soon forgotten after I've tossed the wrapper. Disposable, leaving no memorable impression. I still love going to the movies, but lately it's just a night out, nothing more.
Great topic, Herr Baron!!!
1. Modern horror/fantasy main characters have to have a "dark" side to their personality; the meme running through society today is that someone who is virtuous and has been so all their life is "dull". In fact there are people who are virtuous and they are not dull. The virtuous hero and heroine were commonplace in old films and no one considered them to be dull.
2. Cinematography in the older films was often crisp and beautiful. Too many films today are pedestrian in their approach to color, light and camera placement.
3. Film scores in older films were often complex and memorable; many modern fantasy film scores consist primarily of tonalities. Hard to whistle or hum to one's self many of the film scores today; in fact few people even can remember them.
4. General self consciousness appears to be robbing many modern films of their appeal to that part of our minds that wants to totally suspend disbelief. Movies of 50 to 100 years ago were seldom self conscious; they simply strove to entertain us.
For example, could you imagine a story such as Lord Of The Rings produced in the 50's, directed by George Pal with the stop-motion animation by Ray Harryhausen.
Pure magic.
The Hollywood studio system collapsed for a number of reasons and the process of and ecomonics of producing films changed.
Basically "Damn you Micheal Bay."
A great question and one well worth considering. I do think nostalgia plays a huge role in it. As I get older I find myself coming back to the movies, music, comics that I loved as a kid. It's like comfort food -maybe comfort culture?
I also agree though that many films today seem to be put together by committee, where we have to have each particular element in the film because the marketing shows it will do well. Also, there's a need to out-do everything, which is why we get bigger and bigger monsters, more explosions, etc. It's like every film has to create a sensory overload; there's no subtlety.
The old films were story-driven, not effects driven. You cared about the Monster, or Larry Talbot. Nowadays, most films don't give me a reason to care what happens to their protagonists, so the whole thing falls flat for me.
I think edward scissorhands was a well done newer movie and reminded me of the classic monsters story telling. And on top of that had an excellent musical score by danny elfman! And to top it all off it was vincent prices last feature movie role. I believe it is deserved to be aknowledged as a classic monster film. I always liked this movie and most of burtons films from that era. But its only now that I realize how important of a film this was to me. It has already been 20 years since its release,and was well before the cgi craze. But i guess what im trying to say is Maybe we wont know how much the newer movies of today affect us until there is a little bit of age on them. Time will tell.
One thing that the classic films had going was freshness. Katloff's Monster actually frightened adults back in 1931, Some people thought Willis O'Brien actually filmed real dinosaurs when the silent "Lost World" was released. By the 1960's, the 1931 Frankenstein Monster was long familiar. People were also willing to accept more. How many people were bothered that the whole back of Dodge City in Gunsmoke was a painting, or how much the Gorn character in "Star Trek" was obviously a guy in a rubber suit. Tastes have certainly changed over even a few short years. When the Texas Chainsaw Massacre was released in the 1970's, people got so ill, many vomited. When it was re-released in 1980, some of my fellow soldiers left the theatre complaining how boring it was.
Hey, is Super 8 out yet? Anyone seen it? The creator of E.T. make another classic? For me it's all in the story telling......I love the classics, but I hold out hope that current material can be as good. I'll never stop watching.......Horror stuff? I'm currently into reruns of Gordon Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares! It's scary what we may be eating at the local restaurant! Buddy
Today's key words: Bigger, stronger, faster, meaner...and the list goes on.
Yesterday's key words: Authenticity, efficiency, integrity, simplicity...and the list goes on.
B&W is totally over looked as an art form. Unusual camera angles. The creative techniques that were used to to make the movie real. There was no technology then. Everything had to be done the hard way. CG has made the movies less fun because I can't think about how it was done.
Quote from: ChattyLMS on June 19, 2011, 10:39:09 AMCG has made the movies less fun because I can't think about how it was done.
You put your finger on something so true, ChattyLMS! The fun is gone.
I refuse to acknowledge that any films were actually made after the mid 80s.
QuoteI refuse to acknowledge that any films were actually made after the mid 80s.
For the most part I'm with ya Gary! Thank goodness there is so much wonderful stuff to enjoy before the 80's! Buddy
Welcome Caveman!
We think alike! We're both geniuses!
Quote from: Scatter on June 19, 2011, 05:13:23 PM
I refuse to acknowledge that any films were actually made after the mid 80s.
What bigbud said. I would extend this to popular music as well.
Quote from: Scatter on June 19, 2011, 05:13:23 PM
I refuse to acknowledge that any films were actually made after the mid 80s.
Considering how much I like "Sleepy Hollow" "Mars Attack" and other films made since 1990, I won't go that far.
Quote from: Pauspy on June 16, 2011, 02:15:15 PM
I would say too much reliance on CGI and wire-work stunts, and too little time building empathy with the audience. As visually spectacular as CGI can be, they tend to be pushed to the extreme (think of Van Helsing, a movie I felt wasted it's potential with endless implausible CGI-based stunts). If one CGI monster is good, dozens must be better, even though the eye has trouble registering what it's seeing with the shakey, quick-edit camera-work they use. A hero can't just fight a monster, it must do several back-flips over the monster, and probably pause in mid-air for a while. Tough to relate to a hero / heroine who doesn't even seem human to the audience.
Totally agree.
Quote from: Scatter on June 19, 2011, 05:13:23 PM
I refuse to acknowledge that any films were actually made after the mid 80s.
That's...that's silly, though. I mean, there WEREN'T any films made after the mid-80's, were there? I don't seem to recall... Please pass the forgetfulness juice around again.
The "Classics", and the serials had real, honest to Gosh ACTORS then. Clive had been doing "rep" work and bits for 10 years, before JOURNEY'S END, and Karloff had been barnstorming for twice that long. So had actors like Charles Middleton, Wheeler Oakman and Montague Shaw. What ever the actors were given was treated with respect, and it showed.
Now it seems to be girls, boys, cell phones and beds...with a lot of computer generated action shots.. What with all the grousing coming out about BLACK SWAN, you begin to wonder how much of THAT was real...
I'd rather watch Leo G. Carroll play a film with a TARANTULA, than some of the modern stuff.
"E"