Here's the story. Chucky made Oprah so depressed she binged on 30lbs of mac and cheese.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/41046146/ns/today-entertainment/ (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/41046146/ns/today-entertainment/)
Mac and cheese? I would have binged on something worth binging on.
Quote from: ChattyLMS on January 13, 2011, 06:23:58 PM
Mac and cheese? I would have binged on something worth binging on.
You have never had my mac and cheese!
Aged cheddar and 3 other cheeses, fresh cream, bacon.
We just got a popcorn popper after many years without one....put so much butter on the popcorm it tastes like meat! (My family hates it when I say that)......I feel the binge pounds comin' on too! Bud
I was wondering what had happened to Oprah. 30 pounds of M&C makes sense.
At the risk of dragging politics in, Blaming Horror movies for her own lack of self-control is an unhealthy precedent.
Quote from: Dr. Madd on January 14, 2011, 08:10:11 AM
At the risk of dragging politics in, Blaming Horror movies for her own lack of self-control is an unhealthy precedent.
Amen, brother! My mom didnt like Dawn od the Dead. When we rented a vhs of it back in the day, mom busied herself cleaning the house and doing laundry. Dad laughed and said "Well, at least now I know how to get the house spic n spanned" But she didnt sit down and eat a side of beef and 40 lbs. of chocolate bars... all because she was scared of zombies. She just made up excuses as to why she couldnt watch the scary movie. ;). The house needed tending to. ;D
QuoteAt the risk of dragging politics in, Blaming Horror movies for her own lack of self-control is an unhealthy precedent.
Hi Dr Madd,
Yes, it is a poor excuse. But lack of self control doesn't quite hit it on the head. Having been heavy all my adult life, I understand about emotional eating. It's more complicated than that.
Never mind her EATING the mac 'n cheese... She had her CHEF make it!! The reason why she gains weight isn't because she takes in calories--------it's because she's a lazy SLOB.
Winfrey tells Morgan that when her film "Beloved" came out in 1998, its lack of success during opening weekend caused her to go into "a massive, depressive macaroni and cheese-eating tailspin."
"It premiered on a Friday and I remember hearing on Saturday morning that we got beat by something called Chucky," she recalls. "I didn't even know what Chucky was. So, I asked my chef at the time to make some macaroni and cheese...and I ate about 30 pounds worth. I'm not kidding!"
I'm fat. I weigh 275-280 lbs. I know why. Its not Chucky's fault. Its not Bush's fault. Its a connection problem between the fork and my mouth. They keep touching.
I thought the same thing myself, Sean! I also thought, how weird would it have been had she actually OD'd on the mac n' cheese?? WHAT AN EPITAPH!!
My biggest regret is that we will no longer have the opportunity to see what would have been the scarriest Chucky film of them all!
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss267/Baronscrypt666/Satire/Bride-of-Chucky-Poster-C10043636.jpg)
I'll be so happy when The Oprah goes away for good.
Quote from: Scatter on January 16, 2011, 12:23:23 AM
I'll be so happy when The Oprah goes away for good.
ME TOO!!! She is so ridiculous, overrated and just plain idiotic. >:( >:( >:( >:(
AND, she's starting her own channel!
Quote from: Unknown Primate on January 16, 2011, 01:05:16 AM
AND, she's starting her own channel!
I heard, read and WOW!!!!!
Quote from: Unknown Primate on January 16, 2011, 01:05:16 AM
AND, she's starting her own channel!
As if reality shows wern't torture and degrading enough, without being subjugated to a whole channel of Opra. TV is truly dead.
Everybody reach under their seat and you'll find a Chucky doll along with a Bride of Chucky DVD and a box of Mac and Cheese.
Uncle Creepy,
I couldn't agree more! She ruined Discovery Health. RRRRR
What's even stranger is she gave her 'friend' Gale her own show on the Oprah Network. Can Steadman be far behind?
Quote from: Monster Bob on January 16, 2011, 11:45:45 AM
What's even stranger is she gave her 'friend' Gale her own show on the Oprah Network. Can Steadman be far behind?
Ehhh... I don't even know if I wanna go here.... but I AM a scoundrel, so....... 'Gale' the (cough!!) 'friend' has left Oprah's phony prop 'boyfriend' so far behind that he's Steadman Walking in the world of Oprah. I have just spoken about Oprah enough for the next 3 milleniums. :o
I never watched her show before. I have no reason to watch the channel.
I'm a fat guy as it is, but if I had a private cheff I'd be like a guy in the Guiness Book. It would be like Homer in the episode at his brother's mansion calling the chef at midnight "Chef, yeah its me, can you make some porkchops?"
Hmmm....porkchops.
Gillfan!! You are a laugh riot! I bet in reality if you DID have a private chef, you would try to be all cool like you hardly ever eat or eat like a bird, so the chef would think highly of you and not talk about you to others! That's what I would do, kind of like cleaning up before the maid (if you had one) comes to clean! I would not want to be a "bother" like other people my private chef works for-haha! Although my husband would be going behind my back and asking him/her to prepare stupid food all the time and embarass me! :)
Quote from: charp13 on January 16, 2011, 08:42:21 PM
Gillfan!! You are a laugh riot! I bet in reality if you DID have a private chef, you would try to be all cool like you hardly ever eat or eat like a bird, so the chef would think highly of you and not talk about you to others! That's what I would do, kind of like cleaning up before the maid (if you had one) comes to clean! I would not want to be a "bother" like other people my private chef works for-haha! Although my husband would be going behind my back and asking him/her to prepare stupid food all the time and embarass me! :)
If I had the money for a private chef, I'd not have a private chef. I like to do my own cooking.
Quote from: Dr. Madd on January 16, 2011, 08:48:32 PM
If I had the money for a private chef, I'd not have a private chef. I like to do my own cooking.
After reading your foodie thread, if I had a private chef, it would be YOU. I'd over pay ridiculously of course. See ya when I hit the Lotto.
Quote from: Dr. Madd on January 14, 2011, 08:10:11 AM
At the risk of dragging politics in, Blaming Horror movies for her own lack of self-control is an unhealthy precedent.
After reading the actual article, and I am in no way an Oprah supporter, it sounds more like the fact that her movie got ignored is the reason for her binge, not the fact that it was Chucky. It could have been any film and it would have had the same effect, the way I'm reading it.
Quote from: Scatter on January 16, 2011, 10:39:13 PM
After reading your foodie thread, if I had a private chef, it would be YOU. I'd over pay ridiculously of course. See ya when I hit the Lotto.
Are Blowguns legal where you live?
I have always HATED Orca-er-I mean Oprah, and this has to be the stupidest, most ridiculous thing I have ever heard! "I had my chef whip up mac n cheese" WOW-seriously.
this thread made me binge on mac & cheese!
So far I'm on day 3 of eating it for lunch each day.
If I had a private Chef I'd tell him/her the foods I don't like and let him/her go from there. I wouldn't plan the foods, I wouldn't cook them, I wouldn't clean up later, I'd only be responsible for eating them. Sounds like heaven to me.
Chatty- I like the way you think!
Good lord, I'd end up weighing 600lbs!
I've hardly ever seen Oprah; it's just not something high on my list of things to do. But I do have to respect her; she managed to carve out an empire. She's a self-made person and I respect people like that. Same thing with Schwarzenegger - he put his mind to it, worked hard, and became a superstar.
I hear you Moonshaodw...not sure why so much anger towards Oprah.
I don't watch her, nor are men included in her target audience. She is a highly successful business woman who has created an empire. I will never watch her network, but she has her own network!
Good for her, Tyra Banks is next in line.
I think if Oprah was in a horror movie where she was brutally murdered and dismembered and then came back to life as an Oprah zombie and then got killed again... it would be more successful than Beloved or Bride of Chucky.
Beloved is a literary classic from Toni Morrison. Her novels are complex and they are difficult to condense into a 2 hour movie that would translate into money.
It wasn't a money maker, but demographically the movie was/is a success.
Bride of Chucky doesn't belong in the same breath as Beloved...
In the end, Oprah is an empire all her own.
Harrison Ellison called television a "vast intellectual wasteland". Even more to the point with The Oprah, he called it "a glass teat". Look at The Oprah's minions, jumping up and down and screaming like idiots at each vapid pronouncement, running out to buy the latest tome at her command, gobbling up the newest vacuous spiritual mumbo-jumbo from her latest guru (who usually contradicts her last guru, but the lemmings never seem to notice).
Harrison Ellison might be a prophet.
Bride of Chucky has a 5.3 IMDb rating
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0144120/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0144120/)
Beloved has a 5.7 IMDb rating
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120603/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120603/)
I haven't seen Bride of Chucky, but Beloved sucked as a movie. Oprah did go out and pee in the yard in it though.
Read the book...then watch the movie, it's difficult to put a visual text to the novel. Toni Morrison is one of the leading Black intellectuals of our time.
Scatter my firend, it's all about demographics. Black women love her, Black men respect her, Women love her...demographics my friend...
Quote from: BaronLatos35 on February 02, 2011, 05:57:40 PM
Read the book...then watch the movie, it's difficult to put a visual text to the novel. Toni Morrison is one of the leading Black intellectuals of our time.
Scatter my firend, it's all about demographics. Black women love her, Black men respect her, Women love her...demographics my friend...
I'm aware of the demographics. But it cuts a bit deeper than that. The diminished capacity for critical thought cuts across all demographics, and propels her empire. Many folks simply need someone they can blindly follow.
Quote from: Scatter on February 02, 2011, 09:14:39 PM
I'm aware of the demographics. But it cuts a bit deeper than that. The diminished capacity for critical thought cuts across all demographics, and propels her empire. Many folks simply need someone they can blindly follow.
Well, most people are searching for
something. I can think of worse things for them to follow than Oprah.
But I can't deny that I often wonder if the vast majority of people ever actually think about what they profess to believe, or if they just blindly accept whatever they're told by whoever they follow.
I wonder what would happen if I said that watching Oprah made me binge on Corn nuts and Red Bull.
Quote from: Scatter on February 02, 2011, 09:14:39 PM
I'm aware of the demographics. But it cuts a bit deeper than that. The diminished capacity for critical thought cuts across all demographics, and propels her empire. Many folks simply need someone they can blindly follow.
I agree on that. But to go deeper, she is a successful, rich Black business woman. That causes more vitriol towards her than gets credit for.
Please understand, I am not saying you and anyone on this board shares this thought, but it is widely discussed in the Black community.
Quote from: BaronLatos35 on February 03, 2011, 10:03:06 AM
I agree on that. But to go deeper, she is a successful, rich Black business woman. That causes more vitriol towards her than gets credit for.
Please understand, I am not saying you and anyone on this board shares this thought, but it is widely discussed in the Black community.
Race has nothing to do with it. Its all about the message she sends.
Quote from: Dr. Madd on February 03, 2011, 10:46:23 AM
Race has nothing to do with it. Its all about the message she sends.
Disagree my friend, for some it may be, for others it's not. We are all privy to different conversations and interactions in our lives. We all have different backgrounds and experiences to draw from.
While I can not discount your truth, neither can you discount someone else's truth.
Quote from: BaronLatos35 on February 03, 2011, 11:09:55 AM
Disagree my friend, for some it may be, for others it's not. We are all privy to different conversations and interactions in our lives. We all have different backgrounds and experiences to draw from.
While I can not discount your truth, neither can you discount someone else's truth.
Its not a matter of race for anyone with any sense. I don't like Oprah, and wouldn't like her anyway she could be. She has an inflated view of her own overrated worth.
Quote from: BaronLatos35 on February 03, 2011, 10:03:06 AM
I agree on that. But to go deeper, she is a successful, rich Black business woman. That causes more vitriol towards her than gets credit for.
Please understand, I am not saying you and anyone on this board shares this thought, but it is widely discussed in the Black community.
The Oprah would be just as vacuous no matter what her race. Good grief, will the racists in this world ever get over it??
Quote from: BaronLatos35 on February 03, 2011, 11:09:55 AM
Disagree my friend, for some it may be, for others it's not. We are all privy to different conversations and interactions in our lives. We all have different backgrounds and experiences to draw from.
While I can not discount your truth, neither can you discount someone else's truth.
Truth isn't relative, and you're not discussing truth, you're discussing perception. The fact that someone perceives an issue as racially motivated doesn't make it so. Either it is, or it isn't. Someone's perception doesn't affect the truth. It simply tells you something profound about the person.
Personally, I'm thrilled that I have a Puerto Rican child, a white child, and a black child, so I can at least send these 3 out into the world neither relying upon nor blaming their pigmentation for their lot in life. They'll succeed or fail based upon the content of their character (as Dr King would say) and their willingness to work for what they desire. If any of them ever come dragging into MY house blaming their race for their failure, I'll tan their hides.
I think there are racial elements to the disdain in which some hold Oprah (note the term "SOME" here, if you want that to apply to you, feel free to defend yourself, otherwise don't assume that it does). I also think there are racial elements to Oprah's success.
Personally, I don't like Bea Arthur or Martha Stewart either.
Quote from: Toy Ranch on February 03, 2011, 06:46:01 PM
I think there are racial elements to the disdain in which some hold Oprah (note the term "SOME" here, if you want that to apply to you, feel free to defend yourself, otherwise don't assume that it does). I also think there are racial elements to Oprah's success.
Personally, I don't like Bea Arthur or Martha Stewart either.
There ya go.......Martha Freaking Stewart. Who's more irritating, Martha or Oprah?? There's a thread for ya!! And we can discuss whether the demographics for Martha's show are racially motivated too!!
Quote from: Scatter on February 03, 2011, 06:42:29 PM
Truth isn't relative, and you're not discussing truth, you're discussing perception. The fact that someone perceives an issue as racially motivated doesn't make it so. Either it is, or it isn't. Someone's perception doesn't affect the truth. It simply tells you something profound about the person.
Personally, I'm thrilled that I have a Puerto Rican child, a white child, and a black child, so I can at least send these 3 out into the world neither relying upon nor blaming their pigmentation for their lot in life. They'll succeed or fail based upon the content of their character (as Dr King would say) and their willingness to work for what they desire. If any of them ever come dragging into MY house blaming their race for their failure, I'll tan their hides.
Scatter, I am speaking truth...your perceptions may cloud this truth in your eyes, but regardless it is truth. It is difficult to discount another's life experiences because they do not match with yours.
I never said all negative comments are racially motivated against her, I merely brought to light truths which may or may not be spoken in your presence. It's not racist to present a viewpoint that is shared by people who may not look like you. That is truth my friend, not my perception. We will not "get over" racism until courageous conversations can be held with mutual respect.
TR is correct as I said in an earlier post. For some it maybe, for some it's not. I don't watch her show or Martha Stewart, because I do not like their shows.
I respect your multicultural family, I grew up in one, I know. I say this with respect my friend, your kids will be judged on what they look like. I know they will be strong enough to overcome negative perceptions placed upon them and succeed in life. I do everyday.
Quote from: BaronLatos35 on February 03, 2011, 08:44:02 PM
I respect your multicultural family, I grew up in one, I know. I say this with respect my friend, your kids will be judged on what they look like. I know they will be strong enough to overcome negative perceptions placed upon them and succeed in life. I do everyday.
Too true. My niece, who is a beautiful, smart, kind little black girl, was recently told by a classmate that she was "just a dirty n*gger" among other equally horrible things. And these are 8 year olds! That kind of hatred and prejudice is still being passed down from generation to generation. I do think maybe there's less of it now...but until there's none it won't ever be good enough. Thankfully, my niece has a very supportive and loving family and she has a sense of self-worth. But these things do still happen, and then there's the more subtle prejudice that happens all the time. It doesn't mean people of color can't succeed, but sometimes it does make it harder.
Quote from: BaronLatos35 on February 03, 2011, 08:44:02 PM
Scatter, I am speaking truth...your perceptions may cloud this truth in your eyes, but regardless it is truth. It is difficult to discount another's life experiences because they do not match with yours.
I never said all negative comments are racially motivated against her, I merely brought to light truths which may or may not be spoken in your presence. It's not racist to present a viewpoint that is shared by people who may not look like you. That is truth my friend, not my perception. We will not "get over" racism until courageous conversations can be held with mutual respect.
TR is correct as I said in an earlier post. For some it maybe, for some it's not. I don't watch her show or Martha Stewart, because I do not like their shows.
I respect your multicultural family, I grew up in one, I know. I say this with respect my friend, your kids will be judged on what they look like. I know they will be strong enough to overcome negative perceptions placed upon them and succeed in life. I do everyday.
You completely missed my point.You stated that truth is different for one person than another. It is not. A fact must either be true or untrue, and the perception of any one person or group of persons does not affect truth in the least. 2+2=4..............I don't care what someone may perceive about it or how many perceive 2+2=5. It doesn't change the truth.
The Law Of Non Contradiction states that it is not possible for something to be both true and untrue at the same time and in the same context. "A" cannot be both "A" and "Non-A" at the same time and in the same context.
I wasn't directly addressing Oprah at that point, I was addressing a relativistic mindset that contradicts one of the 3 major dicta of logic, the Law Of Non-Contradiction (truth can be both truth and non-truth at the same time depending upon your racial group).
As for my kids, if they were grossly overweight or handicapped instead of black or brown, they would also be judged by their appearance. We all are. So what?? That's either a barrier that everyone has to overcome (which it is to varying degrees) or an excuse for failure. Because the former is true, the latter is unacceptable.
Quote from: Moonshadow on February 03, 2011, 09:57:13 PM
Too true. My niece, who is a beautiful, smart, kind little black girl, was recently told by a classmate that she was "just a dirty n*gger" among other equally horrible things. And these are 8 year olds! That kind of hatred and prejudice is still being passed down from generation to generation. I do think maybe there's less of it now...but until there's none it won't ever be good enough. Thankfully, my niece has a very supportive and loving family and she has a sense of self-worth. But these things do still happen, and then there's the more subtle prejudice that happens all the time. It doesn't mean people of color can't succeed, but sometimes it does make it harder.
Agreed.........to that point, we have a neighbor at the new house who was very friendly towards us until I brought my kids over to say hello. Suddenly, things got a bit more frosty. We recently left a church for the same reason. Folks simply stopped talking to us after we began bringing the baby (who is black). And I mean EVERYONE stopped talking to us.
Is that an excuse for Jonah or Jordan to hide behind if they fail?? Hell no. Their lives are filled with examples of very successful black lawyers, and Jewish surgeons, and white executives, and Hispanic entrepreneurs. They succeeded despite anyone elses prejudice, and I expect the same from my kids. I don't expect them to crumble because someone doesn't like their color any more than I expect them to crumble if someone calls them "fatty" or "cripple".
Wow! This is one heavy conversation! Scatter...... you man, are deep.......and that is so cool! When we meet, and someday we will, I feel sure that my being too tall and definitely on the ugly side will only peak our mutual curiosity and make us even better friends. Now keep at it......this was just a short intermission.......Love, Buddy
As far as I'm concerned, Black is beautiful, especially when it comes to funeral Coaches.
Quote from: Toy Ranch on February 03, 2011, 06:46:01 PM
I think there are racial elements to the disdain in which some hold Oprah (note the term "SOME" here, if you want that to apply to you, feel free to defend yourself, otherwise don't assume that it does). I also think there are racial elements to Oprah's success.
Personally, I don't like Bea Arthur or Martha Stewart either.
I want to be the Martha Stewart of Monsters.
Quote from: Moonshadow on February 02, 2011, 10:16:07 PM
Well, most people are searching for something. I can think of worse things for them to follow than Oprah.
Quote
Sorry about the interuption here but I find I must "Chime In" here or burst!!
Let me begin by saying that I have learned to love each one of you. Your comments stimulate my mind and Spirit!
Although I have studied Theology, I make know claim at being a Theologian!
There are, however, certain things that I know:
1. As a Teenager, like Jonah of old, I turned completely the other way than the way God planned of me.
2. For approximately 6 years of this 180 degree turn, I studied, believed and practiced Satanism!
3. In June of 1973, in futility with my life, I finally listened to the God who had been seeking me all of my life and accepted Jesus as my Savior!
4. In 1980, I woke up my wife of two years to tell her that, Of all things, God had called me to his Preaching ministry.
5. When she woke up and before I could tell her the news, SHE told me that God had called me to Preach His Word, if she had told me earlier it would have caused a lot less anxiety! LOL
That all being said, MoonShadow, there is not anything worse than following Oprah but only ONE thing better which is to ask forgiveness of our sins and becoming a "follower" of Jesus.
Quote from: Uncula on February 04, 2011, 03:36:01 AM
Quote from: Moonshadow on February 02, 2011, 10:16:07 PM
Well, most people are searching for something. I can think of worse things for them to follow than Oprah.
Quote
Sorry about the interuption here but I find I must "Chime In" here or burst!!
Let me begin by saying that I have learned to love each one of you. Your comments stimulate my mind and Spirit!
Although I have studied Theology, I make know claim at being a Theologian!
There are, however, certain things that I know:
1. As a Teenager, like Jonah of old, I turned completely the other way than the way God planned of me.
2. For approximately 6 years of this 180 degree turn, I studied, believed and practiced Satanism!
3. In June of 1973, in futility with my life, I finally listened to the God who had been seeking me all of my life and accepted Jesus as my Savior!
4. In 1980, I woke up my wife of two years to tell her that, Of all things, God had called me to his Preaching ministry.
5. When she woke up and before I could tell her the news, SHE told me that God had called me to Preach His Word, if she had told me earlier it would have caused a lot less anxiety! LOL
That all being said, MoonShadow, there is not anything worse than following Oprah but only ONE thing better which is to ask forgiveness of our sins and becoming a "follower" of Jesus.
Who are we talking about?
Quote from: Dr. Madd on February 04, 2011, 04:18:03 AM
Who are we talking about?
I was talking about the quote, by MoonShadow, of being a follower of Oprah.
Quote from: Scatter on February 03, 2011, 10:39:44 PM
Agreed.........to that point, we have a neighbor at the new house who was very friendly towards us until I brought my kids over to say hello. Suddenly, things got a bit more frosty. We recently left a church for the same reason. Folks simply stopped talking to us after we began bringing the baby (who is black). And I mean EVERYONE stopped talking to us.
Is that an excuse for Jonah or Jordan to hide behind if they fail?? Hell no. Their lives are filled with examples of very successful black lawyers, and Jewish surgeons, and white executives, and Hispanic entrepreneurs. They succeeded despite anyone elses prejudice, and I expect the same from my kids. I don't expect them to crumble because someone doesn't like their color any more than I expect them to crumble if someone calls them "fatty" or "cripple".
Gary, I truly am sorry to hear that you and your family have had to experience that kind of prejudice. I know about that 'cold shoulder' -me and my husband (I'm white, he's black) have experienced it too. Sometimes I wonder if I am imagining things, but other times it is pretty dang obvious. It's especially disappointing that your church turned on you.
I do know that you and Nancy will give your kids the love and strength they need to deal with stuff like this. And no, I don't feel that it's an excuse for them to use if they fail -but I do think it's an added pressure that I'd rather that they, and my niece and nephews, didn't have to deal with.
Karen
Quote from: Dr. Madd on February 04, 2011, 01:24:45 AM
I want to be the Martha Stewart of Monsters.
"poof" So it is written...so it is done!
Gary, I guess living in Southern CA, my perception has been clouded, as it is more common now than not to see a mixture of ethnicities, races, cultures and religions within families, so much so, that now I do not see the hate, anger and anamosities I knew and lived amongst growing up in the 60s and 70s back in MD, in my world today. Even the news seems to contain less of it these days, so much so, that I was horrified to read your recent experiences. I am so very sorry my friend, for that which you're facing. Your children are so very lucky to Nancy, and yourself--with such great wisdom and perspective. I wish ya'll lived next door so I could send my son over to play, when we're not at my place bbq'g. Perhaps one day
OG
I used to believe that truth = fact, and fact = truth. It seemed logical. Then, one day I saw this, and something clicked, and I understood that fact and truth are not the same. What people believe plays into truth, and truth is a perception.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5059/5416361516_ee636a0540.jpg)
Truth is different from one person to another, depending on their beliefs (which are partially based on their experiences).
When it comes to talking courageously about race, it is not as simple as black and white, 2+2=4 etc. Gray is the color that reigns in between these lines.
I have found that the funniest, strangest, saddest and yet most beautiful things come from reflections on our own lives and on how others have effected it, in other words "actual truth".
I offer this book, written by a Black author and a White author. We have used it in our inquiry/focus group at school since it does deal with children in a school setting. It is a good introductory book that has lead to difficult, tense, emotional conversations that has slowly morphed into a trusting core of educators.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4123/5415781877_8e51643dd1_m.jpg)
This type of conversation is best suited for face to face discussions, as alot is lost in translation.
Quote from: Toy Ranch on February 04, 2011, 12:15:40 PM
I used to believe that truth = fact, and fact = truth. It seemed logical. Then, one day I saw this, and something clicked, and I understood that fact and truth are not the same. What people believe plays into truth, and truth is a perception.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5059/5416361516_ee636a0540.jpg)
Truth is different from one person to another, depending on their beliefs (which are partially based on their experiences).
If you took that "TRUTH" label, and slide it over beneath the "FACT" label and finally , put an Equal (= ) sign between the "FACT" and "TRUTH" labels so that "FACT = TRUTH", it would be more correct!
Then "All FACT= TRUTH and Some BELIEF = TRUTH then All TRUTH = FACT and Some BELIEF = FACT but not ALL BELIEF = FACT". ::) 8) thrhrt
Quote from: Toy Ranch on February 04, 2011, 12:15:40 PM
I used to believe that truth = fact, and fact = truth. It seemed logical. Then, one day I saw this, and something clicked, and I understood that fact and truth are not the same. What people believe plays into truth, and truth is a perception.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5059/5416361516_ee636a0540.jpg)
Truth is different from one person to another, depending on their beliefs (which are partially based on their experiences).
TR, you're confusing "true" and "truth". Truth has nothing to do with perception. 2+2=4 is truth no matter what an individual's perception may be. However, the perception that 2+2 is NOT 4 will make some things true for you and not for me............you will mismanage your checkbook, you will have trouble counting your collection, you will shortly be in lockup after Uncle Sam audits you.
What's TRUE for you may not be TRUE for me, because that IS subjective. It's true you sell toys, it's NOT true that I sell toys. But truth by definition is that which is not subject to individual perception. It is truth that gravity holds us to the planet whether or not anyone perceives it to be so or not. Those who refuse to believe that do nothing to affect gravity, but it does tell you something interesting about that person. He can believe as strongly as it is possible to believe that gravity has no hold on him, but no matter how intense his faith, when he steps off the balcony of a 40 story office building he will find that gravity is a truth, his perceptions be damned.
What people believe affects THEM, it does not affect truth. The definition of "fact" is....... "Something that exists;reality;truth". That which is truth MUST by necessity be fact, and vice versa. The words "true" and "truth" are not synonymous. That which is true for you need not be true for me, but that which is truth (2+2=4,the Law of Gravity, the earth rotates around the sun,etc.), is not subject to our perceptions or beliefs. It's the same whether we believe it or not.
I think most of the debate merely centers around a definition of terms.
Quote from: BaronLatos35 on February 04, 2011, 12:19:28 PM
When it comes to talking courageously about race, it is not as simple as black and white, 2+2=4 etc. Gray is the color that reigns in between these lines.
I have found that the funniest, strangest, saddest and yet most beautiful things come from reflections on our own lives and on how others have effected it, in other words "actual truth".
I offer this book, written by a Black author and a White author. We have used it in our inquiry/focus group at school since it does deal with children in a school setting. It is a good introductory book that has lead to difficult, tense, emotional conversations that has slowly morphed into a trusting core of educators.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4123/5415781877_8e51643dd1_m.jpg)
This type of conversation is best suited for face to face discussions, as alot is lost in translation.
Absolutely...........actually, the Baron wrote me a PM asking me to clarify my position based upon the difficulty of communicating with precision in this format (written). Without the ability to look into the eyes of the person with whom your communicating, the ability to hear tone and inflection, meaning can be easily misconstrued. Lest anyone have the impression that my responses were directed at the Baron as an individual, I offer the clarification I sent to him.
"I was responding to the perception by some that any dislike of Oprah just HAD to be based upon her race. I was neither denying nor doubting that you had heard those voices (I have heard them myself), I was merely reacting to the seemingly endless dredging of racial components on virtually any issue in this society (not that you were doing so by merely reporting those voices, my frustration is that so many of those voices are still resonating).
My entire point is encapsulated in this..........Cannot dislike of Oprah be based purely upon her vapid program and upon her (I believe) harmful foisting of a litany of spiritual charlatans upon her gullible minions?? Does the perception by some in the black community that another more sinister motive is behind a distaste for Oprah make it true simply because they perceive it to be so?? Is there more than one truth based upon the perception of any individual, or is truth ultimately not subject to individual or group perception, but rather stands as absolute and objective despite any perceptions to the contrary??"My apologies if my postings left my position unclear. That's what you get for trying to do this in writing rather than face-to-face, not to mention while I'm simultaneously at least TRYING to look like I'm actually working for my boss. ;D
Quote from: Moonshadow on February 04, 2011, 10:01:21 AM
Gary, I truly am sorry to hear that you and your family have had to experience that kind of prejudice. I know about that 'cold shoulder' -me and my husband (I'm white, he's black) have experienced it too. Sometimes I wonder if I am imagining things, but other times it is pretty dang obvious. It's especially disappointing that your church turned on you.
I do know that you and Nancy will give your kids the love and strength they need to deal with stuff like this. And no, I don't feel that it's an excuse for them to use if they fail -but I do think it's an added pressure that I'd rather that they, and my niece and nephews, didn't have to deal with.
Karen
I agree completely!! We were wondering if we were just imagining things too, until the days without a word turned into weeks. And I wish as well that we still didn't live in a world filled with hard-hearted, bigoted ignorami who can't see the beauty in another culture because they can't see past someone's pigmentation. THAT is the source of my frustration.
As a multicultural family, as well as the parents of a severely disabled child, I can deal with the whispers and the furtive stares and the occasional giggles, and I expect my kids to as well. But I agree it's a damn shame they have to.
Quote from: Opera Ghost on February 04, 2011, 11:08:37 AM
Gary, I guess living in Southern CA, my perception has been clouded, as it is more common now than not to see a mixture of ethnicities, races, cultures and religions within families, so much so, that now I do not see the hate, anger and anamosities I knew and lived amongst growing up in the 60s and 70s back in MD, in my world today.
See why I love LA?? :D
QuoteEven the news seems to contain less of it these days, so much so, that I was horrified to read your recent experiences. I am so very sorry my friend, for that which you're facing. Your children are so very lucky to Nancy, and yourself--with such great wisdom and perspective. I wish ya'll lived next door so I could send my son over to play, when we're not at my place bbq'g. Perhaps one day
OG
Man, that would be fantastic!! You could even pick us up for BBQs in the Batmobile!!
Quote from: Scatter on February 04, 2011, 05:29:24 PM...I can deal with the whispers and the furtive stares and the occasional giggles, and I expect my kids to as well. But I agree it's a damn shame they have to.
That is what, as a parent, is the most difficult thing to accept. Life, like teaching a child to ride a bike, is exciting for us as parents, but when we finally do let go, we hold our breath and hope that we taught them well. Gravity and the hard ground is beyond our control.
Boy, this thread got Deep. Schrödinger's cat just killed himself using Occam's Razor. :P
Rob
Quote from: Scatter on February 04, 2011, 04:56:32 PM
TR, you're confusing "true" and "truth". Truth has nothing to do with perception. 2+2=4 is truth no matter what an individual's perception may be. However, the perception that 2+2 is NOT 4 will make some things true for you and not for me............you will mismanage your checkbook, you will have trouble counting your collection, you will shortly be in lockup after Uncle Sam audits you.
What's TRUE for you may not be TRUE for me, because that IS subjective. It's true you sell toys, it's NOT true that I sell toys. But truth by definition is that which is not subject to individual perception. It is truth that gravity holds us to the planet whether or not anyone perceives it to be so or not. Those who refuse to believe that do nothing to affect gravity, but it does tell you something interesting about that person. He can believe as strongly as it is possible to believe that gravity has no hold on him, but no matter how intense his faith, when he steps off the balcony of a 40 story office building he will find that gravity is a truth, his perceptions be damned.
What people believe affects THEM, it does not affect truth. The definition of "fact" is....... "Something that exists;reality;truth". That which is truth MUST by necessity be fact, and vice versa. The words "true" and "truth" are not synonymous. That which is true for you need not be true for me, but that which is truth (2+2=4,the Law of Gravity, the earth rotates around the sun,etc.), is not subject to our perceptions or beliefs. It's the same whether we believe it or not.
I think most of the debate merely centers around a definition of terms.
No, I meant what I said, and I said exactly what I meant. And I'm not confused in the least.
We simply do not agree.
Quote from: Toy Ranch on February 04, 2011, 06:53:01 PM
No, I meant what I said, and I said exactly what I meant. And I'm not confused in the least.
We simply do not agree.
No discussion is possible absent a definition of terms, unfortunately.
Quote from: monsterphile on February 04, 2011, 06:50:27 PM
That is what, as a parent, is the most difficult thing to accept. Life, like teaching a child to ride a bike, is exciting for us as parents, but when we finally do let go, we hold our breath and hope that we taught them well. Gravity and the hard ground is beyond our control.
Boy, this thread got Deep. Schrödinger's cat just killed himself using Occam's Razor. :P
Rob
LOL!! ;D :D
Quote from: Scatter on February 04, 2011, 07:04:33 PM
No discussion is possible absent a definition of terms, unfortunately.
Websters has definitions, those are fine with me. But I see no point in continuing the discussion, and I don't think the UMA is the venue in which to do it if I did.
Quote from: Toy Ranch on February 04, 2011, 07:10:58 PM
Websters has definitions, those are fine with me. But I see no point in continuing the discussion, and I don't think the UMA is the venue in which to do it if I did.
Those are the definitions I gave. Anyhow, I believe I agreed that we had nothing further to discuss on the topic, so we find a meeting of the minds after all.
Yes, Scatter and I exchanged pm's...it can be difficult to convey meaning in a forum discussion. This type of discussion can rob the richness of such an important topic.
I enjoy being able to respectfully discuss such important topics with friends who may not agree with you. That is what furthers friendship and discussion.
I also believe this discussion has reached it's limit on this forum.
Quote from: BaronLatos35 on February 04, 2011, 09:00:32 PM
Yes, Scatter and I exchanged pm's...it can be difficult to convey meaning in a forum discussion. This type of discussion can rob the richness of such an important topic.
I enjoy being able to respectfully discuss such important topics with friends who may not agree with you. That is what furthers friendship and discussion.
I also believe this discussion has reached it's limit on this forum.
Agreed, and agreed.