Ben Cooper Shocking Phantoms

Started by raycastile, November 20, 2011, 11:20:41 PM

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Mike Scott

Quote from: Hepcat on December 08, 2022, 06:27:03 AM
I heard that he was a frequent guest of the Phantom.

I don't know what that means.
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Hepcat

They were good buddies. That's why/how Gogos was able to capture the Phantom's soul in his rendition.

:)

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Mike Scott

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Dr.Terror

The "I vant to such your blaahd" sterotype stuff mostly came from Gabe Dell's popullar impression on the Steve Allen Show.     Sometimes the imitation becomes what people think of more than the real thing..     

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tBG1Te7A8So
Morning, noon, or night, Anytime . . . . the count may strike. If you're caught you have to linger, Cause Dracula may bite your finger!

aura of foreboding

Quote from: Hepcat on December 08, 2022, 05:18:18 PM
Hmmmmm. Bela Lugosi as Dracula:

Dracula (1931)
Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein (1948)

John Carradine as Dracula

House of Frankenstein (1944)
House of Dracula (1945)
Matinee Theatre: Dracula (TV 1956)
Billy the Kid vs. Dracula (1966)


As far as the Universals go, A&C was the last...  and definitely much more widely regarded than either Matinee or Billy the Kid.

Quote from: Dr.Terror on December 08, 2022, 02:29:22 PM
Lugosi solidified himself as Dracula in the 30s.   All through the time between Drac and A+C and beyond..regardless whatever actor played the role....to the general public Lugosi is Dracula.    He was still represented in pop culture regardless who was currently on screen.

Karloff solidified himself as the Monster in 1931, but to Monster Kids, the image was/is Strange. 

The merchandisers drew from A&C, and the merchandise - not the movies - solidified what actor represented each character for generations.   


Dr.Terror

#50
My point was I dont think its on purpose.    Universal probably had more stills readily available from the most recent films.  Also the films werent readily available to watch so they werent common knowledge. At that time most knew them more from FM than the films themselves.
For instance the Don Post Hunchbsck, Hyde, and Smooth Glenn masks were chosen simply because they had access to Universals molds.   Why the Underwater Creech over the more iconic Land Head also.   They eventually did Karloff in 67 replacing Strange.

There was some  Karloff stuff, kids were aware.of the difference.

Uni had no ryhme or reason to their merch.   The person in charge couldnt even tell them apart based on this 70s era Uni Tour book thar labels Cagney as Chaney and Strange as Karloff.
Not mine
Morning, noon, or night, Anytime . . . . the count may strike. If you're caught you have to linger, Cause Dracula may bite your finger!

aura of foreboding

Quote from: Dr.Terror on December 09, 2022, 03:55:25 AM
My point was I dont think its on purpose.    Universal probably had more stills readily available from the most recent films. 

As good a reason as any.  And, with the vast amount of promotional photography done for that film, it makes sense.   

Like I said, without A&C, Lugosi's solidification as Dracula would have been far more tenuous in the latter half of the 20th century.  Could have been that, like Karloff, he would later become the face of Dracula through marketing and toys, but, because of the lawsuits, probably not.  A&C was the best thing to happen to Lugosi in his career since landing the original role.  Given how badly everything played out for him starting in the late '30s, it's nice that things turned out the way they did. 

aura of foreboding

The fact that Dracula was basically the star of A&CMF also helped with the amount of photographs available of the character.  Dracula was a side character in the earlier Monster Mash-Ups, but A&C was a Dracula film. 

Haunted hearse

Quote from: Dr.Terror on December 08, 2022, 09:34:01 PM
The "I vant to such your blaahd" sterotype stuff mostly came from Gabe Dell's popullar impression on the Steve Allen Show.     Sometimes the imitation becomes what people think of more than the real thing..     

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tBG1Te7A8So
That was definitely the case with Peter Lorre. Paul Frees impersonating Peter Lorre, is what most people think of.
What ever happened to my Transylvania Twist?

Hepcat

Quote from: Dr.Terror on December 08, 2022, 09:34:01 PMThe "I vant to such your blaahd" sterotype stuff mostly came from Gabe Dell's popullar impression on the Steve Allen Show.     Sometimes the imitation becomes what people think of more than the real thing.     

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tBG1Te7A8So

Interesting observation! I still believe though that the Bela Lugosi movies, particularly Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein, had a lot to do with the campy elements in the public stereotype of the Dracula character. Gabe Dell was after all spoofing something that was already there.

:-\
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Dr.Terror

Quote from: Hepcat on December 09, 2022, 04:12:20 PM
Interesting observation! I still believe though that the Bela Lugosi movies, particularly Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein, had a lot to do with the campy elements in the public stereotype of the Dracula character. Gabe Dell was after all spoofing something that was already there.

:-\

Yes, but its like people saying 70s porn music goes. "Bow chicka wow wow".   When that actually came from a  stand-up comedians routine in the late 80s. that aired on cable.    Verbatim.    Yes 70s porn music is funky, but that exact word for word sterotype came from that comedian.    Most doing it never saw a 70s porn same way most had never seen a Lugosi film but knew "Blaah Blaah..goo deevenink" stuff.   

Gabe is Drac on FM Monsters Speak after all.

Or like Franks "Robot" walk.   Yes it came from Lugosi etc...But it was cartoons etc...that turned it into the completely stiffed limbed exaggeration everyone associated with the Monstah.
Morning, noon, or night, Anytime . . . . the count may strike. If you're caught you have to linger, Cause Dracula may bite your finger!

Mike Scott

#56
Quote from: Haunted hearse on December 09, 2022, 03:50:34 PM
Paul Frees impersonating Peter Lorre, is what most people think of.

I think of Mel Blank or Stan Frieberg (photo).

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Hepcat

#57
Quote from: Dr.Terror on December 08, 2022, 02:29:22 PMThe Aurora kits influenced the majority of 60s monster toys.

Quote from: aura of foreboding on December 09, 2022, 02:25:02 AM...the merchandise - not the movies - solidified what actor represented each character for generations.

I couldn't agree more. For decades I thought any portrayal of Wolf Man without the pointy ears Wolf Man sported on the Aurora model kit box and on my SPP Wolfman-Creature wallet simply wasn't right. I thought Wolf Man had to look like this:





That was always my Wolf Man.

cl:)
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Hepcat

#58
Quote from: aura of foreboding on December 08, 2022, 06:22:28 AMI imagine it's the same reason we get Glenn Strange as the Monster during this period.  He was the most recent Frankenstein actor.

Quote from: Dr.Terror on December 08, 2022, 02:29:22 PMThe Aurora kits influenced the majority of 60s monster toys.... Universal didnt have any specific actor or look they pushed to licensees at the time.

Quote from: aura of foreboding on December 09, 2022, 02:25:02 AMKarloff solidified himself as the Monster in 1931, but to Monster Kids, the image was/is Strange.

...the merchandise - not the movies - solidified what actor represented each character for generations.

Interesting! I never previously considered on which actor Aurora's or the other toy makers' Frankenstein imagery were based. Let's have a look:

Boris Karloff



Glenn Strange



Aurora (James Bama)





The James Bama Frankenstein head portrait above did triple duty as one of the Post cereal monster posters and on the APC Frankenstein puzzle box. Both of the above box art renderings of Frankenstein that Bama originally did for Aurora look to be based on Glenn Strange.

Standard Plastic Products



More like Glenn Strange I'd say.

Louis Marx



Glenn Strange once again I think.

ededed
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Dr.Terror

#59
The aurora head sculpt and clothing is based on bride Karloff.   Right down to the hairline with no bangs, scaring and the clamps on the temples.



Box is based on a still ftom House of Frankenstein.. and the kits pose from HOD.





I think Glenn merch exposed him to more kids but from the people Ive asked they were aware of the difference.   FM etc regulary made it a point to differentiate them.   Its kinda like Jason merch based on Jason Goes to Hell.   

Morning, noon, or night, Anytime . . . . the count may strike. If you're caught you have to linger, Cause Dracula may bite your finger!