Universal Monster Army

How about if we move the great repop debate to this thread and leave the Renzi monster mobile thread for discussion of that toy or that auction.

I will start the debate.  I don't like repops.  Next.

Thanks Ray for starting this thread. I certainly will chime in with my thoughts. And I have many, but not tonight .. I have a headache. 

Quote from: fmofmpls on March 22, 2012, 10:25:16 PM
Thanks Ray for starting this thread. I certainly will chime in with my thoughts. And I have many, but not tonight .. I have a headache.

You always say that when I want to spend time with you.

I also do not like repops.

Again......repop= lazy, lack of creativiy, greed. Repop is the enemy of any true collector.............. Love, Buddy

Re-pops don't bother me.  If it makes someone happy and get an item they otherwise couldn't afford why not.   It's all about the fun of the toy, not the value or age of the plastic and paper.

And when i mean re-pops/re-pros I mean nicely done ala Big frankie.   Not some solid resin turd,

Isn't this thread in and of itself, a repop of the Renzi Monster Car discussion thread?   

I love repops.  Love repop kits....I would never fork over money for an Aurora Dracula but I can buy a Polar lights one!  I would LOVE if Hasbro would repop the original Star Wars figure and put todays date on the bottom of the foot.  That way original collectors could be happy but I could be happy too by having them!  I would love a repop of Marx Mountain etc.  I would love that!  Love to have repops of Megos too!  Change the date on the bottom of the foot.  It in NO WAY hurts the original collectors of ANY item that way.

Repops blow chunks.  The copy is never as good as the original.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7268/6861582074_42a30ae8ed_b.jpg)


Think of something original, why don't ya.  Repops, schme-pops.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7259/6861582036_a097c24199_b.jpg)


Argh, I hate repops!

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7067/6861582058_bc755f8f8d_b.jpg)


Man, these freaking things are everywhere!  I can't escape them! 

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7246/7007698801_1c36d8869c_b.jpg)


Arrrghh!  Repops!  Arrrggghhhh!!!

I have nothing against them on the surface, but they're not for me, except for kits and such. They are an exception, because with a repop kit, it's not the owning the piece that matters, but the fun of building and painting it.

I have nothing against anyone else owning repops, if that makes them happy. The part that DOES bug me is when repops resurface on ebay, and the seller 'doesn't remember' if the piece is original or a reproduction. How do you not remember?

I'm all for them, especially when they are professionally made.

It would be so very cool to be able to give my young nephew a battery operated Frankenstein and have him play with it!

but, having said that, I do think there should always be a difference from the original to thwart unscrupulous dealers.

Quote from: Monster Bob on March 23, 2012, 05:59:01 AM
I have nothing against them on the surface, but they're not for me, except for kits and such. They are an exception, because with a repop kit, it's not the owning the piece that matters, but the fun of building and painting it.

I have nothing against anyone else owning repops, if that makes them happy. The part that DOES bug me is when repops resurface on ebay, and the seller 'doesn't remember' if the piece is original or a reproduction. How do you not remember?

This.  But a repop gets sold at a garage sale or in a flea market, and the new owner thinks he has a vintage original...  it really depends on the item though.

Some of the mechanical banks made in the 1800's were repopped in the 1950's, and the repops were very nice copies.  These repops were marked and sell for hundreds, where the originals sell for thousands.  Cast Iron is really hard to tell though, as there have been repops for years.  The contemporary Chinese repops are pretty easy for a trained eye, even when they have been artificially aged (left outside for a while).  The market for old Depression and Carnival glass has been seriously affected by repops.  Robots...  there are repops that you can't tell unless you have them in your hand, and even then the only way you can be sure is to throw them against a wall and see if orange rust dust falls out.

WHEN GUYS FELLOW MONSTERS......... I KNOW WE ALL HAVE LOTS OF MONEY TO SPEND.... WRONG..........IF I COULD BY THAT VERY COOL MONSTER ITEM THAT I ALWAYS   WANTED BUT COULD NOT SPEND TONS OF CASH TO GET IT ... NOW AT A LOW COST OF A  REPOP I WOULD WELCOME IT TO MY MONSTER ROOM...........I HAVE TONS OF REAL ITEMS AND LOTS OF CUSTOMS IF ITS A MONSTER ITEM ITS ALWAYS WELCOME.............BIG JOHN ICEMAN.............

WHEN WAS TO BE  ((   HELLO  ))  GUYS AND MONSTERS

Knock-Off stuff is cool, it can also be a collectable in its' own right. Since I dont look at toys, models, ect as investments, reproduction items do not bother me. I never buy any of the stuff I collect with the pretense of "hope I can turn a dime, or at least get what I paid for this if I sell it later" mentality. To me, most of the stuff I enjoy helps keep me in touch with my childhood. Not only could I never place a dollar vaule on my childhood, the price of each collectors' childhood will be different.
I am a member on other message boards where folks become outraged at repro stuff "bringing down the value of their collection".  The reality of my world is, my collection of stuff need only be valuable to me.

Quote from: bigbud on March 22, 2012, 10:46:26 PM
Again......repop= lazy, lack of creativiy, greed. Repop is the enemy of any true collector....

I agree!

The only exceptions would be properly authorized repops that offer something more or at least different than the originals, such as the Uncle Milton rerelease of the Marx Universal monsters as Glow-in-the-Dark figures:

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/AUncle-1.jpg)

8)

Quote from: Toy Ranch on March 23, 2012, 07:57:36 AM
This.  But a repop gets sold at a garage sale or in a flea market, and the new owner thinks he has a vintage original...  it really depends on the item though.

I have yet to see a repop "Samjo" item at a garage sale, and yet when one appears on ebay, which is somewhat frequently, the seller can't tell you if it's a repop or not, usually because they "don't remember" or "don't know the difference". Hogwash. Anyone that cared enough to spend a couple of hundred bucks, even 5 years ago, sure as heck remembers when they bought it and that they paid a lot of money for it. This phenom seems to happen most often with bike buddys. They will just be listed with a pic and a short description, and when you ask the seller, you always get an "I don't know" or "I can't tell", and then a "no refunds" policy. Bah.

Quote from: Monster Bob on March 23, 2012, 08:44:55 AM
They will just be listed with a pic and a short description, and when you ask the seller, you always get an "I don't know" or "I can't tell", and then a "no refunds" policy. Bah.

Bah is right. Shysters and crooks!

>:(

Remember the Samjo "Monster Paints" set that was on ebay a couple of years ago and the seller swore it was an original? (I think he may have said he bought many years ago-long before Samjo) I posted pictures of it and circled the wear and crease marks on it, next to a picture of one Samjo was selling new at the time. Sure enough, it was a Samjo repop. It's that kind of crap that bugs me, not so much because I won't figure it out, but because the uneducated might not- until he sends the money and has it in his hands. That bugs me.

I'm definitely not down with repops that don't somehow distinguish themselves from the original!  The biggest thing of course there being the fraudulent nature involved in such items!  Whether it is from the original maker/repopper or from someone selling it 2nd, 3rd or 4th hand that doesn't have the knowledge to know the difference.  At the very least original copyright dates should always be removed and replaced with current ones!  I printed out some images of monster stuff from the 60's that I was going to use (hopefully will eventually use) in my bathroom and even those I wrote that they were reproductions with the current years date on them, just in case one day I croak and my items end up on the chopping block; That way there is no wonder/concern if it was really printed in the 60's or a later year!

There is a difference to me as well when something is completely rebuilt using an old example and when something is just made (legally) using an old mold; Aurora's, Marx, etc..

In the end I would pay way more money for the "Anchor Hocking" fantasy place mats than I would for repopped Anchor Hocking glasses.

[quoteIn the end I would pay way more money for the "Anchor Hocking" fantasy place mats than I would for repopped Anchor Hocking glasses.][/quote]

Zombiehorror........please don't tell me they have re-popped the Anchor Hocking monster glasses! You got me checking mine recently purchased set.   Buddy

Quote from: bigbud on March 23, 2012, 09:13:10 AM
Zombiehorror........please don't tell me they have re-popped the Anchor Hocking monster glasses! You got me checking mine recently purchased set.   Buddy

Ha...I was actually going to put a disclaimer that the Anchor Hocking glasses had not been recast but then again I'm no expert....LOL!  There was some debate awhile back about it not being monetarily beneficial to repop them, so no worries!

Quote from: Monster Bob on March 23, 2012, 08:44:55 AM
I have yet to see a repop "Samjo" item at a garage sale, and yet when one appears on ebay, which is somewhat frequently, the seller can't tell you if it's a repop or not, usually because they "don't remember" or "don't know the difference". Hogwash. Anyone that cared enough to spend a couple of hundred bucks, even 5 years ago, sure as heck remembers when they bought it and that they paid a lot of money for it. This phenom seems to happen most often with bike buddys. They will just be listed with a pic and a short description, and when you ask the seller, you always get an "I don't know" or "I can't tell", and then a "no refunds" policy. Bah.

Funny you should mention the bike buddy. NekroDave and I just a month or so ago had a situation where a seller in Japan had a Frankenstein Bike Buddy in the box with shrink wrapping. The seller thought it was original but are not specialists in monsters nor American toys (my sense was it came from the estate of a deceased collector friend of the seller). Due to translation issues and a TIGHT timeline that didn't allow for better photos, both Dave and I both passed. The price was low, even for a repop. It still bugs me, because it looked like there was a dent in the nose and there was some package damage (though I've seen Samjo "editions" with package damage. The item had been wrapped over again with intricately cut and folded plastic (a great fondness of Japanese collectors) so there was no way to determine what the shrink wrap underneath the new covering looked like. If ever. I wanted one of the recast, this would have been my time, as even with buying fees and transport, it would have come in at the range Samjo sold the (just under $200) and if it were real, well they buyer got an amazing deal. More than likely, I'll never know, and it will always bug me.

MONSTER'S AND GHOULS....  BEFORE REPOP'S   WE WERE AT THE MERCY OF SELLERS ASKING HUGE DOLLARS AS SOME US KNOW 1ST HAND AND ME WE SPENT BIG CASH...... BUT IN TODAY'S ECOMMONY THE TRUE DIEHARDS IN THERE MONSTER ROOM'S ON SATURDAY NIGHT WITH 5 KIDS.........WOULD HE SPEND 1.500 ON A ORIGINAL RENZI OR SPEND 200.00....THAT'S THE QUESTION.... I AM WITH YOU ON THIS IF IT'S A REPOP OR RECAST OR CUSTOM MEGO IT SHOULD BE KNOWN TO BUYER.......   I WAS AT A MONSTER SHOW 3 YEARS AGO ORIGINAL DRACULA BINDER FOR SALE 350.00    NEXT TO IT 20 REPRO'S........25.00 EACH.........END OF SHOW .......ALL REPRO'S  SOLD ..........ORIGINAL STILL ON TABLE.........WHY.........IT'S  BETTER TO HAVE A COOL MONSTER ITEM HE CAN BRING HOME WITHOUT BREAKING HIS BANK........... SO IF ALL OF US HERE ON THE UMA SITE  BIDS ON THE RENZI CAR IT WOULD SELL FOR 50.000 .......WOULD YOU BUY IT FOR THAT........HOW MANY OF US WOULD BUY A REPOP FOR 200.00 JUST TO HAVE A COOL ITEM TO DISPLAY.............THE ONE'S WHO ARE MAD ARE THE ONES WHO SPENT BIG MONEY AND KNOW SOME OF US CAN SAY I HAVE ONE TO FOR A LOT LESS...........    WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IS GREED AND CASH...........SELLER ALWAYS WINS .......WE BUY WHAT WE CAN AFFORD........ONCE AGAIN I AM NOT FOR REPOP'S NOR AGAINST FOR IT I AM FOR THE MONSTER COLLECTOR WHO CAN AFFORD A REAL ONE OR FAKE........BIG JOHN

Quote from: Monster Bob on March 23, 2012, 08:53:59 AM
Remember the Samjo "Monster Paints" set that was on ebay a couple of years ago and the seller swore it was an original? (I think he may have said he bought many years ago-long before Samjo) I posted pictures of it and circled the wear and crease marks on it, next to a picture of one Samjo was selling new at the time. Sure enough, it was a Samjo repop.

How could the Aurora monster paints be reproduced? I can see the packaging being reproduced, but how could the little cans of Humbol paints be duplicated? Did the paints in these sets have labels unique to the set?

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/AColors.jpg)

???

Quote from: Type3Toys on March 23, 2012, 08:24:37 AMI am a member on other message boards where folks become outraged at repro stuff "bringing down the value of their collection".

That part doesn't bother me one iota. Like you I'm not collecting to turn a buck. I'm doing it for its one sake. Moreover, I have no sympathy for the investors/speculators interested only in the monetary aspect of collecting.

The part that concerns me though is being defrauded by paying the money for an original but ending up with a repro.

:o

Quote from: ICEMANN333 on March 23, 2012, 09:32:00 AM
MONSTER'S AND GHOULS....  BEFORE REPOP'S   WE WERE AT THE MERCY OF SELLERS ASKING HUGE DOLLARS AS SOME US KNOW 1ST HAND AND ME WE SPENT BIG CASH...... BUT IN TODAY'S ECOMMONY THE TRUE DIEHARDS IN THERE MONSTER ROOM'S ON SATURDAY NIGHT WITH 5 KIDS.........WOULD HE SPEND 1.500 ON A ORIGINAL RENZI OR SPEND 200.00....THAT'S THE QUESTION.... I AM WITH YOU ON THIS IF IT'S A REPOP OR RECAST OR CUSTOM MEGO IT SHOULD BE KNOWN TO BUYER.......   I WAS AT A MONSTER SHOW 3 YEARS AGO ORIGINAL DRACULA BINDER FOR SALE 350.00    NEXT TO IT 20 REPRO'S........25.00 EACH.........END OF SHOW .......ALL REPRO'S  SOLD ..........ORIGINAL STILL ON TABLE.........WHY.........IT'S  BETTER TO HAVE A COOL MONSTER ITEM HE CAN BRING HOME WITHOUT BREAKING HIS BANK........... SO IF ALL OF US HERE ON THE UMA SITE  BIDS ON THE RENZI CAR IT WOULD SELL FOR 50.000 .......WOULD YOU BUY IT FOR THAT........HOW MANY OF US WOULD BUY A REPOP FOR 200.00 JUST TO HAVE A COOL ITEM TO DISPLAY.............THE ONE'S WHO ARE MAD ARE THE ONES WHO SPENT BIG MONEY AND KNOW SOME OF US CAN SAY I HAVE ONE TO FOR A LOT LESS...........    WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IS GREED AND CASH...........SELLER ALWAYS WINS .......WE BUY WHAT WE CAN AFFORD........ONCE AGAIN I AM NOT FOR REPOP'S NOR AGAINST FOR IT I AM FOR THE MONSTER COLLECTOR WHO CAN AFFORD A REAL ONE OR FAKE........BIG JOHN

I'd rather not have the item than have a runner up repop of it, knowing that if I bought a repop I'd still in the end yearn for the original item!  Apologies for my quote "yelling" at everyone!

I ALWAYS TYPE IN  (((    BIG   )))) I LIKE THE WAY IT LOOKS........NOT YELLING AT EVERYONE OR ANYONE ............IF I WAS YOU WOULD NOW..........ICE...BIG J..........

Quote from: Monster Bob on March 23, 2012, 08:44:55 AM
I have yet to see a repop "Samjo" item at a garage sale, and yet when one appears on ebay, which is somewhat frequently, the seller can't tell you if it's a repop or not, usually because they "don't remember" or "don't know the difference". Hogwash. Anyone that cared enough to spend a couple of hundred bucks, even 5 years ago, sure as heck remembers when they bought it and that they paid a lot of money for it. This phenom seems to happen most often with bike buddys. They will just be listed with a pic and a short description, and when you ask the seller, you always get an "I don't know" or "I can't tell", and then a "no refunds" policy. Bah.

As far as the Samjo stuff goes, agreed.  Scammers are a different story completely.

If I died tomorrow, and had a bunch of repro stuff mixed in with my vintage stuff, my wife and son would assume it was all vintage.  If I had Samjo stuff, they would not know the difference.

For the record, I don't have any of it. 

HepCat- in regards to the paint sets- the labels on the little cans of paint were just white Humbrol paint labels-nothing monster related. I have never held a repop in my hands, but I assume they were little tin cans with color xerox labels attached, the same way the box was made, with no paint inside.

Quote from: Toy Ranch on March 23, 2012, 09:51:06 AM
If I died tomorrow, and had a bunch of repro stuff mixed in with my vintage stuff, my wife and son would assume it was all vintage.  If I had Samjo stuff, they would not know the difference.

True enough, but I don't believe that scenario has ever occurred, to my knowledge anyway. The fact that I have personally experienced the "I don't know, but you can't return it" many, many times proves what a field of landmines ebay can be in regards to this repop stuff. It is discouraging.

Quote from: zombiehorror on March 23, 2012, 09:06:50 AM
In the end I would pay way more money for the "Anchor Hocking" fantasy place mats than I would for repopped Anchor Hocking glasses.

Just to spare Buddy and everyone else, there is ZERO evidence of any reproduction Anchor Hocking monster glass, TMK. As far as Richard's "fantasy" items like the place mats, oh how I WISH I could buy a set. I love 'em and he, of course, treated it right. Repurposing old art in a new way (and in this case for a limited group). I think they weren't even for sale were they, just part of the Old Dark House exchange. Richard, you out there? Terry, Ray, you guys know, right?

I'd be fully behind seeing those placemats as a licensed retail product. I wish I could afford to produce dinner sets, licensed, with current info AND with some color adjustment being used on the images placed on plastic tumblers (or even glassess, though I'd rather them be plastic), plastic bowls with art in or on 'em (how about the Mani-Yack faces in the bowls?), and the placemats Richard designed (with Richard's blessing and the same color adjustment and licensing/date info)? Tie all that up into a two color illustrated cardboard box: four mats, four tumblers, four bowls, heck four sets of metal the Monster figure topped I-Scream spoons also made into forks and knives and made out of metal and you've got an item that would be retro-cool and still respectful of the original product, in my opinion.  Sell each set separately too, nicely packaged, and create a high-ball set with swizzle sticks (longer, different colors than the originals) and perhaps evens tumbler. I'd love all of that, in each package and as a set, and wouldn't be overly gripped about seeing the classic art reused. It would be far better than seeing the Creature half sheet wrapped around a mug again.

Quote from: Monster Bob on March 23, 2012, 09:58:52 AM
True enough, but I don't believe that scenario has ever occurred, to my knowledge anyway. The fact that I have personally experienced the "I don't know, but you can't return it" many, many times proves what a field of landmines ebay can be in regards to this repop stuff. It is discouraging.

I'm super sad to say I think it has happened/ is happening with some of Shawn's collection (he had a few bootleg, fantasy, and / or restored items. I think we've seen similar vestiges of it (not with deaths) with the Creature mask that had the Milicent Patrick letter. Some years back a fantasy magic slate - I think by Matt Jaycox and I think with a '66 copyright date on it kicked up quite a fuss on here (or the yahoo version) and sold for hundreds (400 or 600) on eBay. I think the buyer ended up ok with it, but many people thought it was vintage. And that's to say nothing (yet) of what's gone on I the film poster world, where repoping now falls under federal art forgery statutes and there's a push for poster registration.  I'd still want to know the story behind the find of the Mexican blowmolded Creature From the Black Lagoon figures. I've heard two differing accounts and a lot of speculation.

Richard gave them away, which is part of why you don't find them for sale.  Richard spent a huge amount of time assembling slivers or art to flatten it, and did an amazing job with it all.  I'm sure they would command a high price, but it would be incredibly disrespectful to the spirit in which they were gifted to turn around and sell them.  I would not part with mine, anyway.  If I wasn't fortunate to have a set, I would be longing for the opportunity to buy some as well.

I recently took some photos of the mats with glasses.  They are in the Members Only forum, here:
http://www.universalmonsterarmy.com/forum/index.php?topic=17182.msg277405#msg277405 (http://www.universalmonsterarmy.com/forum/index.php?topic=17182.msg277405#msg277405)

Quote from: Toy Ranch on March 23, 2012, 10:40:37 AM
Richard gave them away, which is part of why you don't find them for sale.  Richard spent a huge amount of time assembling slivers or art to flatten it, and did an amazing job with it all.  I'm sure they would command a high price, but it would be incredibly disrespectful to the spirit in which they were gifted to turn around and sell them.  I would not part with mine, anyway.  If I wasn't fortunate to have a set, I would be longing for the opportunity to buy some as well.

That's what I thought, and I feel the same as you about gifts and respect. I recently advised on the pairing down of an art collection (the owner is still living) and got into some brass tacks about some of it in terms of his estate because it is famous stuff.  It's hard to talk about, but Shawn and I had often discussed our collections, families, and what to do. We had brother's pact and I honored it as best I could given the horrible circumstances. His mom was well taken care of, with many of his friends assisting, but it was and still is gut wrenchingly sad.

Whew, anyway, I do long for a placemat set, and I look at your photo posts (and Flickr) far more often than I tell you how much I appreciate 'em. Thanks again.

I think about Shawn often, and never even met him.  I'm sure it remains very hard for you, and my heartfelt condolences are extended.

Quote from: Toy Ranch on March 23, 2012, 01:09:37 PM
I think about Shawn often, and never even met him.  I'm sure it remains very hard for you, and my heartfelt condolences are extended.

Ditto.

Quote from: Wich2 on March 22, 2012, 11:37:28 AM...and if those Uncles had kept those old things in fetishistic glass cases....

But some of us don't have a fetish for dusting.

:o

I'll chime in since this seems to stem from the Creature Board game we are going to be producing.

Yes I have purchased an original mint board game that's already being scanned. We are going to produce 100 special editions that will include sculpted figures along with the originals. We are also going to produce 250 regular editions and both will be priced the same.

We are hoping for a Christmas release and we have pre-sold half of the regular editions to one distributor.

I am a creature fan and collector and I've never thought that a re-pop hurts the value of an original, that's a ridiculous argument. The people buying these would never pay 3k and upward for an original.

Anyway it was not my intention to offend the collectors here, but I'd say a big portion of you will buy one when they are ready. We are also talking with three or four artists about coming up with new artwork for a completely new version of the Creature board game designed by a great board game designer.

We will be producing some other original pieces as well, and I hope that some of you will support them. For the ones that are totally against this, I see your point.

Moebius reprinted the MOM Creature, was that so bad? Has it hurt original prices?

Most of the rare old model car kits are being reproduced, does that bother anyone?

To me it's like reliving your childhood on a budget.

Paul

I

WELL SAID PAUL..........BIG JOHN

Quote from: LFSPaul on March 23, 2012, 09:01:23 PM

We are also talking with three or four artists about coming up with new artwork for a completely new version of the Creature board game designed by a great board game designer.

That I would love! A retro Creature game done in the style of the first three Hasbro games is something I've always wished existed. I don't know the story behind the '64 releases, but they look like Hasbro just rushed them out and aren't as playable as the first three. And a modern game with 3D pieces and real game play? I'd be over the moon for that. Something with a cardboard or plastic Rita would be a real dream come true.

Quote from: LFSPaul on March 23, 2012, 09:01:23 PM
Moebius reprinted the MOM Creature, was that so bad? Has it hurt original prices?

Most of the rare old model car kits are being reproduced, does that bother anyone?

To me it's like reliving your childhood on a budget.

Paul

Well, I bought a built up Gigantic Frankenstein a few years before the reissue was done. I felt pretty "safe" because all these repops had been done, and not the big Frankie.  It was always said to be "too big", and "too expensive to redo".  The price for a vintage built-up had been pretty steady at $500 for years.  You could find them sometimes for more or less, but around that for a complete one.  Then I had it professionally painted to my liking, and that cost I figured would never be recoverable.  A complete, unbuilt one, with an exceptionally clean box....  you were looking north of $2000 (and I don't have one of those). 

Now I never planned to sell it, and I don't ever expect to sell it, but someday I'll die, and since a lot of my personal net worth is tied up in monster collectibles, and I do have a wife and son, I would hope that they will be able to sell my collection after I'm gone, and get something out of it.  That's not the reason I collect, (and if it were, I'd pick something else), but when you have a lot of money invested in a collection, it's a consideration.

Moebius came out with their repop of it. It's licensed, and perfectly within their rights to do... 

But here's one that would have probably brought around $1500 to $2000 before the repop, and is $750 today.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=140665454259 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=140665454259)

And here's a built up, missing rock and chain (probably more like $350 pre-reissue) at $91.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=300663824394 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=300663824394)


So no, it is not "absurd".

I don't own an original Creature board game.  Perhaps you will make them cheap, and I'll buy one.

>>Quote from: Wich2 on March 22, 2012, 06:37:28 AM
...and if those Uncles had kept those old things in fetishistic glass cases....<<

>But some of us don't have a fetish for dusting.<

Wow. Just wow.

I've only ever left one cybergroup in all the years I've been online, and it was for just such stuff as this.

I've been thinking and praying over the last few days, as to whether I just needed a breather, or whether my kind of person (and as much as some would like to think, I am not the only one who sees things with this perspective) was welcome here anymore. And when I check back in, not only is my honestly held point of view being lambasted in a thread I am no longer part of -

- but a member has dragged a post from THAT thread over to a new one I don't even know of, just to take a cheap beyotch slap at me.

I've been a UMAer since the Yahoo List days, and this is not the kind of thing that led me to tell folks over the years that this was one of the best groups in cyberspace. I'm too old for this type of silliness, and life's too short. I'll stay with the point of view of a smart man long ago, who advised me to not to lay up treasure on earth, where moth and rust can destroy, but elsewhere.

Goodbye and good luck,
-(ex OotMah) Craig Wichman

Uhm---yes, the Moebius Creature re-pop has affected the value of the original. As did the re-pops that have been done for the Guillotine, the Addams Family House, Monsters Scenes kits, Munsters living room, and those wretched Monsters on Hot Rods.

It doesn't DESTROY the value of an original, because there are guys like  me that pretty much only want originals, but it does effect the level of DEMAND. Because part of the collecting demographic is equally satisfied with a re-release as an original.

Quote from: Wich2 on March 24, 2012, 09:28:56 AM

Goodbye and good luck,
-(ex OotMah) Craig Wichman

And to you as well.   

Quote from: Anton Phibes on March 24, 2012, 09:33:55 AM
Uhm---yes, the Moebius Creature re-pop has affected the value of the original. As did the re-pops that have been done for the Guillotine, the Addams Family House, Monsters Scenes kits, Munsters living room, and those wretched Monsters on Hot Rods.

It doesn't DESTROY the value of an original, because there are guys like  me that pretty much only want originals, but it does effect the level of DEMAND. Because part of the collecting demographic is equally satisfied with a re-release as an original.

Repops probably affect model kits more than other monster toys.  I think the board game may have a bigger effect on the original than some other items as well.  And fact is...  while they LOOK cool...  the games are not very good games.  A retro styled game that is actually fun to play would be, I believe (and don't pardon the pun) be universally accepted and praised by the monster fan and collector community, while doing a repop will result in a mixture of positive and negative reviews. 

Quote from: Toy Ranch on March 24, 2012, 10:54:58 AM
Repops probably affect model kits more than other monster toys.  I think the board game may have a bigger effect on the original than some other items as well.  And fact is...  while they LOOK cool...  the games are not very good games.  A retro styled game that is actually fun to play would be, I believe (and don't pardon the pun) be universally accepted and praised by the monster fan and collector community, while doing a repop will result in a mixture of positive and negative reviews. 

I mentioned that to Paul. The first three games have some basic playability (two spinners in some cases), but Hasbro really rushed the second series, and it shows in the copied Bama art (and reuse of it for both the box covers and game boards) and the lack of game play. Paul did mention the posibility of also Creating a new one, and his limited edition version of the remake will have figural pawns rather than cut outs if I understand correctly. He just also is very intent on re-releasing a rare and not very fun game from 1964 based on a now cult character, and at what looks to be a reasonable price point for the basic edition. If it has to come to pass, I'd like to think he'd make each element of the game; the box, tray, every card, and pawn bear some distinction separating it from the original.  I'm still amazed he found an original sealed. I've always been told these weren't shrink wrapped, just the insides. I'd like to see pics of the way the shrink sat on it. Folded like old Auroras or heat sealed on the sides or?

I can tell you that the reissued Gigantic Frankenstein has decreased my desire to own that kit, whether original or repop.

I thought it was kind of cool that they were going to put that kit out again, and I actually planned to buy one and build it.  But that never happened.  Why?  After the reissue came out, I realized the kit now bored me. 

I liked the original not as a piece of "sculpture," but as a charming, fascinating relic or a past era.  I can't separate the history, the time period, from the toy/model.  They are interwoven.  If that kit had been made new today (and had never existed in the 60s), I would find it more curious than cool.  I would wonder why it was sculpted in that odd style.  It would seem disconnected from the culture that produced it, the times in which it exists.  But in the 60s, it makes perfect sense.  It is a product of that era, with its sensibilities, influenced by everything else that was going on at that time.  When you strip all that history away, it is just a weird Frankenstein model.  Still cute, but non sequitur.

The reissue doesn't have any of that history.  So why don't I buy an original?  Because the reissue is so common, that the original no longer seems unique.  Why should I spend hundreds of dollars on something when an identical-looking product is so readily available?  Well, because the original has all the history I talked about earlier, and the reissue does not.  That sounds good, but emotionally I just can't bring myself to plunk down $350 for a built-up that looks just like the one I could buy (and build myself) for $50.  So I should just buy a reissue, right?  But the reissue doesn't have the 60s cultural context the original has.  So I should just buy an original then, right?  But the original now seems like money down the drain.  So I should buy a reissue.  But it bores me.  So I should buy an original.  But it bores me.  So what should I do?  Just forget the whole thing, I guess.

If I could get an original for the price of a reissue, that would be ideal!  And the way the price of the original is plummeting, that is not an unrealistic prospect.

Quote from: Wich2

Quote from: Hepcat

Quote from: Wich2...and if those Uncles had kept those old things in fetishistic glass cases....

But some of us don't have a fetish for dusting.

Wow. Just wow.

I've only ever left one cybergroup in all the years I've been online, and it was for just such stuff as this.

I've been thinking and praying over the last few days, as to whether I just needed a breather, or whether my kind of person (and as much as some would like to think, I am not the only one who sees things with this perspective) was welcome here anymore. And when I check back in, not only is my honestly held point of view being lambasted in a thread I am no longer part of -

What? "No longer part of"? Once you hit send, your words stay for good! And I was addressing precisely your point.

Quote from: Wich2...but a member has dragged a post from THAT thread over to a new one I don't even know of....

Huh?! A mod opened this thread on repops to address precisely the points that were derailing the Renzi monster car thread! I was conforming to the wishes of the administrators by moving my commentary over to this thread.

Quote from: Wich2...just to take a cheap beyotch slap at me.

What? How can you call that a cheap shot? There was nothing cheap about my comment. I was addressing a point you made with a valid point of my own. And I did it with a very nicely turned phrase. Don't you appreciate words that are well chosen, ones that make a point quickly and succinctly?

>:(

I think this is the kind of thing that must anger you guys. These clowns are asking $379 for reproduction posters?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FRANKENSTEIN-and-DRACULA-TWO-6-foot-MONSTER-posters-comic-book-mail-order-1960s-/120882010551?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c252119b7 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/FRANKENSTEIN-and-DRACULA-TWO-6-foot-MONSTER-posters-comic-book-mail-order-1960s-/120882010551?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c252119b7)

I know the guy selling those repro posters.  I don't know if he printed them himself, but I imagine they cost a hefty amount to produce.  Any time you do a small run of poster-size color prints, especially something 6 feet tall, it costs a lot of money.  Then when you double that cost to make a profit, the final price tag can be pretty high.

Would I buy those reprints?  Nope.  Reprinted posters do not interest me.

Here again, the existence of reprints has affected my desire for the original.  I have never bought originals of these posters because I cannot tell the difference between the originals and repros.  I have no idea what I'm buying.  So I just skip it.  I prefer the ones printed on trash bag plastic, anyway.

I'm not sure what's going on here, but as Terry would say, "I'm bored with it."  I see a lot of impassioned debate, some of it bordering on crossing the line, but I think we've done a good job of keeping things civil.  Civil does not mean we tip-toe around the subject, walking on eggs so as not to offend anyone.  Civil means we can vigorously express our point of view, but we understand that we agree to disagree. 

I have very strong feelings about this subject, as do many here.  If I did not check myself, I could become very hurtful and insulting in talking about this.  I know I have not crossed that line, and I don't think anyone here has gone that far, though Bobby and Craig and now Hepcat are dancing close to the edge.  Part of me wants to say, "if you can't take the heat," but I don't think we need to become "heated" to make our points.  I like spirited debate, but we should not let it become personal.  It is getting personal between a few of you, so let's pull back.

Quote from: Hepcat on March 24, 2012, 11:48:00 AM
But some of us don't have a fetish for dusting.

Wow. Just wow.

I've only ever left one cybergroup in all the years I've been online, and it was for just such stuff as this.

I've been thinking and praying over the last few days, as to whether I just needed a breather, or whether my kind of person (and as much as some would like to think, I am not the only one who sees things with this perspective) was welcome here anymore. And when I check back in, not only is my honestly held point of view being lambasted in a thread I am no longer part of -

What? "No longer part of"? Once you hit send, your words stay for good! And I was addressing precisely your point.

Huh?! A mod opened this thread on repops to address precisely the points that were derailing the Renzi monster car thread! I was conforming to the wishes of the administrators by moving my commentary over to this thread.

What? How dare you call that a cheap shot? There was nothing cheap about my comment. I was addressing a point you made with a valid point of my own. And I did it with a very nicely turned phrase. Don't you appreciate words that are well chosen, ones that make a point quickly and succinctly?

>:(

Thank you Raymond. I echo those thoughts 100%.

Raycastile, sometimes it is difficult to find the exact words to express my feelings on this subject........every point you made on this pg (pg 4)  echoes my personal thoughts. Yea I still believe repops are the product of the lazy and greedy, but you hit it right on the head, it takes away the uniqueness of the original. It does make a search for the original meaningless and boring. All you said........you got it right!    Buddy

He is well spoken isn't he buddy. That's why if I am ever famous enough to write a book about my life, ill make sure I find someone Like him to write it!      Seriously Ray, exactly my feelings ,and eloquently written. As for the creature board game, I wouldn't pay $1000. For an original. its not  something I really want. But if I came across one for $400 a or mint at $600 then id probably buy one just because it was a good deal,and rare, and a safe purchase. Plus it would look good in my collection.  But once its repopped , any of that interest to me will be gone. I wouldn't even consider an original then, much less a copy. Like the posters, and the big Frankie. (I did pick up a New big Frankie for $50 ,way below the retail price because I thought I would build it up and was kind of exited to do so, then I got it and it just sits up on the shelf in the box. I lost interest in it. I wouldn't have done that had it been an original built up. the day i got it It would have been stripped down with easy off,  had a new paint job by me, and proudly displayed in amongst my toys and models. But I can't bring myself to by an old one now. The repop ruined it for me.

i never buy repops/ reproductions/rereleases. Never will

I try to avoid these conversations. Feelings always get hurt, the pros sometimes (IMO unfairly) depict the cons as being heartless about it. The cons end up defensive, it's just such a no win.

Vintage for me all the way, the thrill is in the hunt, the shelf worn and the previously enjoyed toy. Others don't get that and I'm ok with less competition out there, do what you enjoy and don't worry about what others think.

Reproductions don't fill the void and rarely get my money, in the end that's all one can do, vote by not buying.

However when a company takes a vintage concept and does something wonderful and new (like what diamond did with the 8" monsters) I'm a sucker. There was a case where it would have been easy to just repop the AHI monsters but instead a whole new bit of wonder was born.

The best thoughts on this debate that I can imagine come from two great Britishers:

The first being John Keats:

A thing of beauty is a joy forever:
Its loveliness increases; it will never
Pass into nothingness

And the second from the great Jarvis Cocker, when denegrating bad cover versions of beautiful originals:

It's like a later "Tom and Jerry"
When the two of them could talk,
Like the Stones since the Eighties,
like the last days of Southfork.
Like "Planet of the Apes" on TV,
the second side of "'Til the Band Comes in"
Like an own-brand box of cornflakes: he's going to let you down my friend

Matt

Not to be critical, snobby, or anything else, but I don't understand why a repop would put a funk on a person's interest in an original. I just ignore them for the most part, as they just aren't relevant to me.  It's not the reason I am into it. I love the hunt for the original! And no "repop" is the same, to me, anyway. When I first started messing with this stuff again back in the late 70s, my desire was to assemble a collection of the stuff I had, or wanted but didn't get as a youngster in the 1960s. Luckily, when I got into it, prices weren't at the levels they are now. But even at that time, prices were considered high. And as far as assembling a collection, once the major playing pieces were in place, everything else was gravy. And I'm satisfied. Isn't that the point? If someone gets that same feeling of pleasure out of a reproduction, I won't deny you that.

TO EACH HIS OWN.......FREE COUNTRY..... SOME LIKE TO SPEND BIG CASH...  LETS SEE WHAT THAT CAR SELLS FOR......AND THOSE 6-SOME  FOOT COLOR POSTERS WOULD COST ABOUT 140.00 EACH TO DO AT A PRINT SHOP..........BIG J..........

Don't like straight repops, new designs in vintage style thats another story! I imagine the demand on my original Rommels Rod kit isn't what it was, but seeing that its one of the childhood kits I liked best, it will stay with me anyhow.

What are repops?

Quote from: ICEMANN333 on March 24, 2012, 10:30:16 PM
TO EACH HIS OWN.......FREE COUNTRY..... SOME LIKE TO SPEND BIG CASH...  LETS SEE WHAT THAT CAR SELLS FOR......AND THOSE 6-SOME  FOOT COLOR POSTERS WOULD COST ABOUT 140.00 EACH TO DO AT A PRINT SHOP..........BIG J..........

Who likes to spend big cash?

If that's fair, then the same hand you could say some like to charge big cash.

Quote from: Dr. Madd on March 25, 2012, 01:38:22 AM
What are repops?

A reproduction, a copy, a clone.

Quote from: Monster Bob on March 24, 2012, 09:15:52 PM
Not to be critical, snobby, or anything else, but I don't understand why a repop would put a funk on a person's interest in an original. I just ignore them for the most part, as they just aren't relevant to me.  It's not the reason I am into it. I love the hunt for the original! And no "repop" is the same, to me, anyway.

Thank you Bob. That in a nutshell has been my argument (and question) from the very beginning. Why do so many people who claim repops have no value to them, indirectly attribute so much value to them anyways? Who freakin' cares if somebody finds enjoyment from a reproduction? Many monster collectors probably have only several toys that they can directly tie-in with childhood experiences, whether actually owning them, or seeing them on the store shelves. How many of us here at this forum have said the words, "I never even knew that existed"?  Well, then chances are you have no personal (or intimate) attachment to this item whatsoever - other than the fact that you wax nostalgically over the decade from which the toy was derived. Other than that, you can't claim that a reproduction somehow infringes upon your own personal childhood experiences with said toy because you never even knew it existed, or you never owned one. And really, why should you care anyways? I'll tell you why, because it always comes back to the almighty dollar. That's the rub and nothing more. If I spend $1,000.00 on a vintage toy, then I better not see somebody have the option available to them to buy a reproduction for $100.00. Really? That to me sounds incredibly arrogant and selfish too.

Like I said earlier in this thread, if you like the damn toy like you say you do, and your willing to put your money where your mouth is (meaning you really want it because you adore it on a personal level), then stop doubting yourself and reprimanding others for their decisions. Go ahead and buy it like you really mean it! Man up for the vintage monster toy!

Don't fear the reproductions! Their value has only as much value that you place upon them.

Let take a moment of silence and enjoy the Rifleman # 10. Infamous, Wood Cover.

(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd4/hhwolfman/SCAN0009.jpg)

Quote from: Toy Ranch on March 24, 2012, 10:54:58 AMRepops probably affect model kits more than other monster toys.

Yes, I believe they have. Quite simply, the repops have provided a viable alternative to modellers looking for a piece to actually build. I'm therefore happy that so many classic model kits have been repopped because this has protected the originals from being built, and thus "destroyed". The repops have enabled me and other collectors such as myself to actually build the kits we remember from our childhood again!

With respect to the adverse impact on the "value" of the existing kits in my collection, I really could not care less. I've stated time and time again that it's not about the money for me. It's about the love. And if the reissued kits keep the prices of the kits I still need for my collection down, well so much the better. I'm not made out of money.

  ;)

Quote from: fmofmpls on March 25, 2012, 08:46:44 AMLike I said earlier in this thread, if you like the damn toy like you say you do, and your willing to put your money where your mouth is (meaning you really want it because you adore it on a personal level), then stop doubting yourself and reprimanding others for their decisions. Go ahead and buy it like you really mean it! Man up for the vintage monster toy!

Don't fear the reproductions! Their value has only as much value that you place upon them.

I do man up and pay the big bucks for the real vintage articles.  Nor am I the least bit interested in denying others the opportunity to buy less expensive copies of my own toys. I'm neither jealous nor am I the proverbial  dog-in-the-manger. And as I've said, I'm not at all concerned with the impact repros have on the "value" of my collection.

My only fear of the repros is the potential of fraud if and when they're passed off as the genuine article by unscrupulous sellers, as will almost inevitably the case. That's why I think repros should always be just a bit different, in colour, date, etc.

:(

Quote from: hhwolfman on March 25, 2012, 11:37:45 AM
Let take a moment of silence and enjoy the Rifleman # 10. Infamous, Wood Cover.

OMG. Is that a real cover?

       LUCAS MY BOY !!!!      HE'S GOT HIS RANCH-----HE'S GOT HIS BOY-----HE'S GOT HIS GUN---------WERE THE HELL ARE HIS MODEL KIT'S.................BIG JOHN.............

He really is the RifleMAN. Hilarious, Howard!

Quote from: fmofmpls on March 25, 2012, 12:09:35 PM
OMG. Is that a real cover?

Yes buddy, I discovered it 20 Years ago. I have bought everyone I have seen, and gave them to friends. I call it the Wood club. I have found 8 of them.

PS. I thought this thread could use a little Humor.

The Rifleman HAH!!! Reading the plot teaser - what's up with the MYSTERIOUS BAG???? Couldn't resist.

How bout this auction? The sharpeners are probably real. but the display?? looks too good to be true to me. Ive read that some unused displays were found supposedly, but i also know that some were definately repopped, (there is a thread on here with someone who made some.) this seller claims it to be real store stock. Its the second time he lised it due to not recieving a high enough offer. what do you guys think?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-MONSTERS-PENCIL-SHARPENER-STORE-DISPLAY-BOX-MINT-OLD-STORE-STOCK-/180850561236?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a1b8890d4 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-MONSTERS-PENCIL-SHARPENER-STORE-DISPLAY-BOX-MINT-OLD-STORE-STOCK-/180850561236?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a1b8890d4)

Wow. Cardboard that old should certainly have acidic yellowing.
Based on the photo, I would say it almost has to be a repro.

I appreciate the civil discussion and I'm proud to say that the company that I am working with has green lit the new Creature Game board as well!!!

Universal is on board and while I'll have to put those awful universal monster logos on the box, I think we can overlook that.

Going to work with a famous artist that has agreed to do the box artwork and old monster fans will be delighted.

I'd like to bounce some ideas off you guys as we go, in a way you guys will help design this board.

On the re-pop issue, I don't collect my creature items based on what I can resell them for, I think defeats collecting. I collect for the love of the hunt and the subject matter. If  re-pop already existed of the Creature Board game, I would be all over it. I've already been offered what I paid for my board game by a member here even though he knows I'm a making a re-pop. While I want to keep the game, it just shows that a quality, vintage piece will always retain it's value. Collect for the love of the subject matter, not what you can make on it the following day.

Paul

Quote from: Gillfan on March 25, 2012, 06:21:44 PM
Wow. Cardboard that old should certainly have acidic yellowing.
Based on the photo, I would say it almost has to be a repro.

There was a "warehouse find" of these displays, flat and unused, several years ago.  It is probably legit.  I have a couple myself.

Quote from: LFSPaul on March 25, 2012, 07:36:56 PM
I appreciate the civil discussion and I'm proud to say that the company that I am working with has green lit the new Creature Game board as well!!!

Again, that is fantastic! Sign me up for two, sight unseen. Can't wait for you to announce the artist and I'm sure they and your designers will be able to work with the UM logos no problem.

Quote
I'd like to bounce some ideas off you guys as we go, in a way you guys will help design this board.

That would be a honor and a real joy. Thanks!

Quote
On the re-pop issue, I don't collect my creature items based on what I can resell them for, I think defeats collecting. I collect for the love of the hunt and the subject matter. If  re-pop already existed of the Creature Board game, I would be all over it. I've already been offered what I paid for my board game by a member here even though he knows I'm a making a re-pop. While I want to keep the game, it just shows that a quality, vintage piece will always retain it's value. Collect for the love of the subject matter, not what you can make on it the following day.

I haven't yet, and may not be able to clearly articulate my opinions on the subject, but very, very little of it has to do with money. I don't like the reissuing of long out of production items, and reissuing is a that a more accurate description of obtaining a license from the rights holder(s) - I'm assuming, if you haven't licensed anything from Hasbro,  that they have no rights in the simple CFTBL Mystery Game game play or any other element of the game and that there's no possibility of confusion of product liability - and distributing the end result wholesale - than the term I used to begin with, repop.

Never-the-less, I'm delighted well see an entirely new Creature game will come out of all this as well. Congrats, you'll make some grow-up monster kids dreams (including your own I believe) come true.

Quote from: LFSPaul on March 25, 2012, 07:36:56 PM
I appreciate the civil discussion and I'm proud to say that the company that I am working with has green lit the new Creature Game board as well!!!

That's great news! Put me down for one please.

Quote from: poseablemonster on March 25, 2012, 08:21:16 PM
There was a "warehouse find" of these displays, flat and unused, several years ago.  It is probably legit.  I have a couple myself.

Again, I have not seen it in person, but based on the pix, it is highly unlike that cardboard would not yellow over 40 years. Even under pristine conditions. Papers yellow because of lignin. Cardboard actually contains more lignin than even newspint. Now, a warehouse find would be protected from the sun, but it would not be protected from air except in the most unusual of circumstances.

Quote from: bigbud on March 24, 2012, 01:37:37 PM
Raycastile, sometimes it is difficult to find the exact words to express my feelings on this subject........every point you made on this pg (pg 4)  echoes my personal thoughts. Yea I still believe repops are the product of the lazy and greedy, but you hit it right on the head, it takes away the uniqueness of the original. It does make a search for the original meaningless and boring. All you said........you got it right!    Buddy

Doesn´t take away the uniqueness of the original for me.  When I first got into modeling I bought the Revell reissue of Frankenstein and Dracula Monsters of the movies back in 99.  Had NO idea these kits were made before and that they were repops.  Had no idea.  I was just a 25 year old kid who thought they looked cool and wanted them.  It wasn´t lazy nor greedy of me to buy them at Toys R US.  Nor did it make me feel bad when I found out they were reissues.  I love them!  Only REALLY old people will even know about it.

Quote from: BANE on March 25, 2012, 10:41:24 PM
Only REALLY old people will even know about it.

Why you whipper-snapper!!  :laugh: I go back as far as the Glow Kits no further!! I recently saw a youngin's work on the monster kits, faboulous!! He may have never discovered and certainly would've had a tuff time paying for originals.

Quote from: hhwolfman on March 25, 2012, 11:37:45 AM
Let take a moment of silence and enjoy the Rifleman # 10. Infamous, Wood Cover.

(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd4/hhwolfman/SCAN0009.jpg)

No surprise there. The Rifleman was known to be cocked and loaded at all times.

;)

Quote from: Gillfan on March 25, 2012, 06:21:44 PM
Wow. Cardboard that old should certainly have acidic yellowing.

Judging by the display boxes of old gum cards, that's not necessarily the case.

:-\

Quote from: LFSPaul on March 25, 2012, 07:36:56 PM


On the re-pop issue, I don't collect my creature items based on what I can resell them for, I think defeats collecting. I collect for the love of the hunt and the subject matter. If  re-pop already existed of the Creature Board game, I would be all over it. I've already been offered what I paid for my board game by a member here even though he knows I'm a making a re-pop. While I want to keep the game, it just shows that a quality, vintage piece will always retain it's value. Collect for the love of the subject matter, not what you can make on it the following day.

Paul

Yes, yes, and Yes.       

Quote from: Hepcat on March 26, 2012, 09:32:20 AM
Judging by the display boxes of old gum cards, that's not necessarily the case.

:-\

Yes, I agree.  I have a lot of old cardboard packaging from that era and I don't notice yellowing on anything that I can think of.

Quote from: Gillfan on March 25, 2012, 10:35:42 PM
Again, I have not seen it in person, but based on the pix, it is highly unlike that cardboard would not yellow over 40 years. Even under pristine conditions. Papers yellow because of lignin. Cardboard actually contains more lignin than even newspint. Now, a warehouse find would be protected from the sun, but it would not be protected from air except in the most unusual of circumstances.

I have one, and have never questioned it's authenticity. I looked it over, and it looked legit to me. There are things about it that make me believe it's old. If it were artificially aged, it WOULD be more yellowed, because whoever did it would try harder to make it look old. 

Also, the counter display boxes were found with the sharpeners.  Some of the heads were found in several colors, while others were found in very limited numbers of colors. Frankenstein heads were not found at all. Everything about it totally makes sense for a warehouse find, and totally doesn't make sense for someone repopping them to make money.  The selling of them wasn't handled like someone who wanted to maximize their profit either, by that I mean the seller was not shrewd in the way they went about it.

I could go on and offer more evidence of their authenticity and logic about why they are authentic.

They are old. I know one of the guys that found them.

the reason I was concerned was due to these repop displays, it was in this thread, they look very similar to the one in the auction.
http://www.universalmonsterarmy.com/forum/index.php?topic=747.30 (http://www.universalmonsterarmy.com/forum/index.php?topic=747.30)

heres the picture link.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2317/2252039540_4181031586_o.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2317/2252039540_4181031586_o.jpg)

Samjo made a repro of this thing too, i'm pretty sure.

But the originals have a perforated corner near the price, and are die cut, characteristics which the one in photo both look to have. Of course, an original is printed, also. It should be pretty obvious in hand, as color xerox copies of anything are pretty easy to spot.

This is the part of this whole 'repro' thing that sucks...deciphering real from fakes from pictures.

 

Quote from: Monster Bob on March 26, 2012, 07:00:55 PM
This is the part of this whole 'repro' thing that sucks...deciphering real from fakes from pictures.

I agree monster bob.

Monster Bob- If you actually know one of the guys who found them, and you feel he is trustworthy, I'll accept that.

That said, he's  some professional talk about yellowing:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/question463.htm (http://science.howstuffworks.com/question463.htm)

So is $200 a fair price for an original display box full of sharpeners?  I know the sharpeners themselves are not worth much, except for Frankenstein.

This is a great topic and here are my thoughts on it.  I think very accurate repros have a very legitimate reason to exist- that they may be sometimes the only chance someone has to see and hold a special toy again.  The two best examples I can think of are my repro Stretch Monster in black, which I posted photos of a few years ago.  I would never pay $1,000-$1,500 for a rel one but I gladly paid the $200, just to see it again and to hold it like Xmas morning 1977.  I love it.  My second example is when I was searching for one of the top 10 toys ever,  around 2000 I was searching for a Mattel Vertibird, a functioning one was around $400, a nice on in the box was close to $800 or $1000, and I was ready to pay it, just to fly again.  Then the reproduction Chopper Command came out, and a then 38 year old 230 lb man got to lay on the floor in the living room and fly like a 10 year old in 1975 again for hours, for just $24.95 plus shipping.  I bought them for 3 different friends kids and my nephew, so they could fly too.  I wrecked my Chopper Command by flying it to death, just like I wrecked my Vertibird 3 decades earlier and loved every minute of it.

I bet my AHI collection would sell one piece at a time for over $5,000 but I dont care if I ever get my money back, I already have gotten many times that in the happiness and memories they give me.  I did a solo road trip to Vegas a few months ago and my favorite AHI mummy bend em came along as wingman right under my GPS.  My AHI 1974 Repro Catalog is the only chance I will ever have to see those incredible images and pages.  My repro AHI cards are so perfect, I love them and the memory they give me that I (before collecting existed) bought the entire line all MOC as a kid and tore them open to play with the monsters.

Someone earlier in this thread made the point that the next generation may not value our toys as much as we do and they may lose their monetary value.  I am fine with that, I would be happy to someday give mine to a grandchild I might have, and tell them the story of these great monster toys.  If someone made a really accurate line of AHI repros I would be so excited I would buy them for every kid I know and would not care what mine could sell for.  I have fantasies of finding the molds and doing it myself.

So in the end, these great toys are worth what they are to anyone for whatever reason.  As an investment, probably weird and risky at best.  Seeing Gracebuster's Dr. Shocker House of Horrors last year was such an inspiration but also confirmed I couldn't ever take collecting to that level, but I envy the years he got to have that incredible collection to enjoy and share with others, I think how many toys I would never have seen again without him inviting me and so many others to come see them after he made the effort to get them all together.

I can look at every nuance of firecracker labels online, I don't care if they are repros or not, as the tiniest details of them are burned into my mind at age 6-12 and looking at a repro of a Black Cat brick label, or Zebra, or Baby Gorilla flashlight crackers- seeing that artwork again, in any form,  gives me a nearly direct path to parts of my mind as a child at that age, and the magic of firecrackers at the time.  I can smell the punk and the warm wind across the Nebraska prairie in July 1970.

My only objection to repro anything is if it is sold or confused with originals, and mixes up the market.  I am not militant that this or that has to be real or original, if you are into it, you know what's what and what isn't...  All that matters is that these things existed and we loved them when we were kids.

Oh horrors! I've bought into the repop thing! Just received a repop rev-motor for my G. I. Joe jeep.   G. I Joe..........I'm sure glad nobody has repro'd any of that stuff! LOL........Buddy

Quote from: bigbud on March 26, 2012, 10:02:44 PM
Oh horrors! I've bought into the repop thing! Just received a repop rev-motor for my G. I. Joe jeep.   G. I Joe..........I'm sure glad nobody has repro'd any of that stuff! LOL........Buddy

I've never been able to tell what's what as original, repopped, or reissued in GI Joe. It's not my area of expertise by any means, just an interest, but that market seems infested with fakes. Any good sources to be able to tell what's what?

Quote from: raycastile on March 26, 2012, 09:33:54 PM
So is $200 a fair price for an original display box full of sharpeners?  I know the sharpeners themselves are not worth much, except for Frankenstein.

I think it is.  I paid between $75 and $80 for the display alone.  You figure the sharpeners have to be worth at least $10 each.

AHI, you get it man and our products will be different from the originals. One decision I made was to make the box larger than the original. Now looking at it alone you will never know the difference, but side by side it will be very obvious.

Paul

Quote from: darkmonkeygod on March 27, 2012, 05:20:14 AM
I've never been able to tell what's what as original, repopped, or reissued in GI Joe. It's not my area of expertise by any means, just an interest, but that market seems infested with fakes. Any good sources to be able to tell what's what?

I spent many years collecting GI Joes, it was a blast! I could buy footlockers full of stuff and while there were some knockoff stuff even back then it was very cheap plastic and could be spotted in any picture. Now that's not the case they pumped out tons of replica joes with exact molds of everything. I lost interest and only buy them when I can physically inspect them , so needless to say. In my case anyway, repops ruined that particular hobby of mine. I still have over 100 vintage 12"gi joes and every 3 3/4 joe between 1982 and 1994 though. And I love them, its just not fun to buy them anymore. The same thing happened with masters of the universe and star wars. They revisited the old lines in "exact replica copies" and should have just made new examples alone. I don't want it to happen to monster stuff.

No matter how large or small your collection is, I feel Repops destroy the integrity of it. That said, If they make people happy, go for it.

Im repeating myself again...

I think alot of the anti repop feelings are from the folks who shelled out big bucks on an original, only to see someone get essentially the same toy for 1/10 the price.   Only thing a repop ruins is bragging rights as far as I'm concerned.     

Who cares about the integrity of a Toy collection?    It's only for fun.    If it looks cool and YOU like it thats all the integrity a toy needs.   Not when where or how it was made or what someone will pay for it or how much attention or rep you get from having an original.   When your doing it for fun none of that matters.   

If someone wants everything in their collection to be original vintage, that's cool , and if someone just wants a representation of a toy regardless of vintage that's cool too.    Everyone should be able to enjoy what they love, not just the people with the $$ to buy it.   So if someone can come along and repro a toy I'd never be able to afford at a price I can,  I'm all over it because in the end to me all that matters is what it looks like sitting on a shelf.   And what I think of it, not anyone else.    My collection is for my enjoyment not to impress others.    I spend hours redoing displays etc..Why...I never have visitors, and i hardly ever take pics and share, then why do i do it?     Because I like to look at it.  I do it for me.   Folks are more than welcome to see it, but that's not why I try to make my collection display nicely.   I do it for my own enjoyment.   

QuoteI think alot of the anti repop feelings are from the folks who shelled out big bucks on an original, only to see someone get essentially the same toy for 1/10 the price.   Only thing a repop ruins is bragging rights as far as I'm concerned.     

Who cares about the integrity of a Toy collection?    It's only for fun.    If it looks cool and YOU like it thats all the integrity a toy needs.   Not when where or how it was made or what someone will pay for it or how much attention or rep you get from having an original.   When your doing it for fun none of that matters.   

If someone wants everything in their collection to be original vintage, that's cool , and if someone just wants a representation of a toy regardless of vintage that's cool too.    Everyone should be able to enjoy what they love, not just the people with the $$ to buy it.   So if someone can come along and repro a toy I'd never be able to afford at a price I can,  I'm all over it because in the end to me all that matters is what it looks like sitting on a shelf.   And what I think of it, not anyone else.    My collection is for my enjoyment not to impress others.    I spend hours redoing displays etc..Why...I never have visitors, and i hardly ever take pics and share, then why do i do it?     Because I like to look at it.  I do it for me.   Folks are more than welcome to see it, but that's not why I try to make my collection display nicely.   I do it for my own enjoyment.   

Interesting view Dr. Terror. I can agree with only about........... 1/10th of it.  LOL   Buddy

I'd like just 1/10th of your vintage stuff!!   

But the problem isn't so much, "I don't have that much money for an original so I'll buy a repop!", it's "I just bought this toy for a huge sum of money and found out that it is a repop!" or "I'd like to buy that but now I can't tell (nor can the seller, wink, wink) whether it is a repop or not?!"....at least that is a lot of what I'm gathering on the topic.

In any realm of collecting it's up to the buyer to make sure they are getting what they pay for.   It's a risk all of us take whenever we buy anything over the net. 
If a buyer is willing to spend big $$$ on a toy, they should be educated enough about the item to tell the difference.

What's so wrong with buying it for enjoyment and having bragging rights?  Or caring about the integrity of a toy collection? Am I wrong for thinking that way?

Quote from: frankenstein73 on March 27, 2012, 04:48:32 PM
What's so wrong with buying it for enjoyment and having bragging rights?  Or caring about the integrity of a toy collection? Am I wrong for thinking that way?

No, you aren't wrong at all in my opinion. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again and again and again...

When it comes to the Marx monsters I will pay MORE for a nice condition Mex repop over an original only because the originals are still easy enough to find at a decent price. The crazy color repops are few and far between. The fact that they are 30 years newer means zip to me. It's all about how cool looking it is and I's rather have a vile green ,yellow or pinkish  repop than the boring orange anyday. YMMV

Good point WL, if toys are made from the same mold, such as the marx and mpc figures, are they a repop? or simply a reissue? its a tough call for me there. as I own some new figures of each. (i also own all the original 60s ones  too)   these arent remade molds are they? I believe they are the same molds and a company out of mexico bought them. I am glad they are in different colors and plastic so you can tell the difference though. And I too like the multiple colors but the orange and blue marx are still my favorites and dominate my shelves. and I really dont like the new MPC pop tops colors and the see through plastic + the heads dont even go into the holes unless they are drilled out. but I bought some and gave them to my kids and they love them, so thats cool that it allows them to enjoy them! Like I said before I buy my kids reissued polar lights models so they can build them up too. Its a tough topic for sure, but I still would rather see new ideas and products, and even fantasy pieces in the field than see cheaply made repro items for lazy people to make a quick buck on.

Quote from: Wicked Lester on March 27, 2012, 08:22:16 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again and again and again...

When it comes to the Marx monsters I will pay MORE for a nice condition Mex repop over an original only because the originals are still easy enough to find at a decent price. The crazy color repops are few and far between. The fact that they are 30 years newer means zip to me. It's all about how cool looking it is and I's rather have a vile green ,yellow or pinkish  repop than the boring orange anyday. YMMV

This is a good point, except for the part about the orange ones being boring.

There are some cases where a later version of a collectible interests me more than an original.  I prefer the square-box Aurora glow kits over the long-box 60s originals.  That is mostly a nostalgia thiing, as I grew up with the square glow versions.  I didn't know the long boxes existed until I was an adult.  I remember going to a toy dealer's house, seeing the long boxes on a shelf and asking, "Are those jigsaw puzzles?"

QuoteI didn't know the long boxes existed until I was an adult.

And as BANE pointed out so eloquently......only REALLY old people would even know about that.

Quote from: bigbud on March 27, 2012, 10:24:42 PM
And as BANE pointed out so eloquently......only REALLY old people would even know about that.

HEY YOU KIDS...GET OFF MY LAWN!

 ;D  I had to crack on the old people a little.  I am about to turn 40 so I wasn´t around for all the sixties monster goodness.  So I take what I have been in my era!   Hell I was around for the Remco Monsters and I would like to see THEM repopped!

Quote from: BANE on March 28, 2012, 12:57:40 AM
;D  I had to crack on the old people a little.  I am about to turn 40 so I wasn´t around for all the sixties monster goodness.  So I take what I have been in my era!   Hell I was around for the Remco Monsters and I would like to see THEM repopped!

Perspective is everything. I read your post and took it as tongue-in-cheek but also honestly thought "Ah, kids today, they dunno". And I turned 40 last year!

Also, NO REMCO reissues, tributes, repops, boots, etcetera, please! Much as I love that line (and I really, really, really do *cough call me if you find Mexican versions PLEASE *), unless we could get casts from the two-ups or, and I realize the mire I step into when I say this, pull a Gentile Giant Star Wars style up-scaling to 12 inch (thereby creating an entirely new product, possibly even blow molded) I'd much rather Diamond or anyone of mind create a Hasbro 3 3/4 style figure.

Though the likenesses on several were off, the Toy Island figures were a lot of fun. Unrelated, I would pay to have hard copies of that last round of Imperial Universal Monsters jigglers with the squishy beads on the interior,  I've already seen a number that have rotted and are spilling their guts.

Quote from: frankenstein73 on March 27, 2012, 08:54:39 PM
Good point WL, if toys are made from the same mold, such as the marx and mpc figures, are they a repop? or simply a reissue?

I mentioned the same argument/statement back on page 2...

Quote from: zombiehorror on March 23, 2012, 09:06:50 AM
There is a difference to me as well when something is completely rebuilt using an old example and when something is just made (legally) using an old mold; Aurora's, Marx, etc..

Quote from: Dr.Terror on March 27, 2012, 04:24:33 PM
In any realm of collecting it's up to the buyer to make sure they are getting what they pay for.   It's a risk all of us take whenever we buy anything over the net. 
If a buyer is willing to spend big $$$ on a toy, they should be educated enough about the item to tell the difference.

Of course it is but it wouldn't have to be if people weren't repopping, recasting and generally trying to pass knocks offs off as the real thing....that's why many folks are against such practices!  If someone feels the need to remake something then make a slight modification to it or just put a new damned copyright on it!

Quote from: zombiehorror on March 27, 2012, 04:08:09 PM
But the problem isn't so much, "I don't have that much money for an original so I'll buy a repop!", it's "I just bought this toy for a huge sum of money and found out that it is a repop!" or "I'd like to buy that but now I can't tell (nor can the seller, wink, wink) whether it is a repop or not?!"....at least that is a lot of what I'm gathering on the topic.

Precisely!

;)

QuoteIf someone feels the need to remake something then make a slight modification

Yea........like putting a rectangular bar over the Roman numerals under the base of their orange figures! Ha! Now, now.......Zombiehorror, don't turn all red and puffy, I'm only kidding with ya! Love, Buddy

Four words- Matt Jaycox's Magic Slate. (Which was wonderful, BTW) That's the kind of shenanigans I'm talkin' about!

Looky here! With all the talent and knowledge in this group can't we come up with a monster product project and take it from conception -license -production -marketing? What great fun that would be! Only problem I can see is our distance from each other......easily solved..........being in Kansas, just below Kansas City I live in the very center of the known civilized world. This would be corporate  home base...Ha!   Buddy

QuoteHEY YOU KIDS...GET OFF MY LAWN!

WAS THINKING JUST THAT! Woke up this morning to find my mailbox off it's post for the second time this week. Trying to find some way to deter or catch the rascals............Buddy

Quote from: bigbud on March 28, 2012, 09:35:59 AM
Looky here! With all the talent and knowledge in this group can't we come up with a monster product project and take it from conception -license -production -marketing? What great fun that would be! Only problem I can see is our distance from each other......easily solved..........being in Kansas, just below Kansas City I live in the very center of the known civilized world. This would be corporate  home base...Ha!   Buddy

Yes. Start up an new thread with the voting and lets see what type of product people would like most! But I recommend incorporating in Washington State, for the tax shelter ;-)

I'm all in favor of this new venture as long as I'm in charge, everybody does what I say and I make all the money.

QuoteI'm all in favor of this new venture as long as I'm in charge, everybody does what I say and I make all the money.

Dang! Ownership of the Renzi car done gone to the boy's head!   

Nah, I was always like that.

Sorry if I misunderstood what will be offered. Will The Creature Mystery Game be an exact replica but in a bigger size with Universal's logo? Same box cover and board art?

I don't know if many of you get to Wonderfest, but we are going to try to have the Creature Board game New and Old on display.

Paul

Hey Paul,

I work at Wonderfest. I work for Donnie Waddell in Guest Services, but I'll also be helping Dave Conover with a bit of programming this year. I'd love to get a peek at the game in development, and maybe if I can get somebody with a camera we can film a short segment to show everybody here.

Rod

Quote from: Monster Bob on March 28, 2012, 09:25:45 AM
Four words- Matt Jaycox's Magic Slate. (Which was wonderful, BTW) That's the kind of shenanigans I'm talkin' about!

WORD!

Quote from: LFSPaul on March 29, 2012, 11:19:18 AM
I don't know if many of you get to Wonderfest, but we are going to try to have the Creature Board game New and Old on display.

Paul

New as in your new reissue (which I'm glad to hear is larger, btw), right? I didn't miss out on throwing in my 2 cents on what I'd wanna see in a modern Creature game did I?

The collector who has spent lots of money says no ,but the kid says yes. I didn't start collecting monsters cause of value so it shouldn't matter to me if they are reproduced. The originals should still be worth a lot even after a rerelease. I do expect companys to make them quality repos and to make them correctly with dates for the collectors.

Yep I'll have both versions of the Creature board game at WF, new and old.

Paul

Quote from: horror1o1 on April 02, 2012, 02:43:06 PM
The collector who has spent lots of money says no ,but the kid says yes.

Kids don't want our stinking old plastic junk.

Quote from: raycastile on April 02, 2012, 07:08:22 PM

Kids don't want our stinking old plastic junk.

LOL! The cool kids do.

Quote from: horror1o1 on April 02, 2012, 08:05:48 PM

LOL! The cool kids do.

The cool kids especially don't want it.

Quote from: raycastile on April 02, 2012, 09:47:38 PM

The cool kids especially don't want it.

LOL! Ya your probally right there.

Quote from: frankenstein73 on March 25, 2012, 04:55:49 PM
How bout this auction? The sharpeners are probably real. but the display?? looks too good to be true to me. Ive read that some unused displays were found supposedly, but i also know that some were definately repopped, (there is a thread on here with someone who made some.) this seller claims it to be real store stock. what do you guys think?

Quote from: Gillfan on March 25, 2012, 06:21:44 PM
Wow. Cardboard that old should certainly have acidic yellowing. Based on the photo, I would say it almost has to be a repro.

As it turns out the display was an original, but the pictures were too good/nice to be "true". Here are the original pictures from Ebay:

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/KGrHqRqcE88ftSuMBPYUGjoZB60_12.jpg)

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/KGrHqFrcE88g9cKRSBPYUHbuVFw60_12.jpg)

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/KGrHqFo8E9c6VoPhBPYUHckJg60_12.jpg)

But when Bigbud bought the display, this is what he received;

Quote from: bigbud on April 08, 2012, 01:13:50 PM
New addition to the basement family as of yesterday mail delivery! This is sweet!  Buddy

(http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/bigbud3/IMG_1689.jpg)

A very nice item nonetheless but not as white and bright as the pictures indicated. The Ebay seller evidently adjusted the brightness/contrast so that the display looked newer and brighter than it actually was. Electronic image altering is so easy for shysters these days that buyers must be more careful than ever buying goods sight unseen.

:(

There really aren't many "cool kids" these days.

I gotta tell you, this was really driving me crazy. I was talking to museum conservation people I know ad even spoke to the people who do the conservation work for the NY Public Library and all confirmed that there would have to be yellowing except for the most unusual and unlikely of circumstances. I didn't want to bring it up again and seem like I was trying to stir up trouble, I'm glad to hear what the explanation was.

Photoshopping aside, the conservators are absolutely wrong. If a 1930s newsprint comic book can exist with white pages, so can anything. I have lots of paper that is 50+ years old that is "snow white" as they call it. And these displays, if stacked on top of one another, would likely remain pretty dern white. Mine are. I have a cheap paper poster hanging in my garage that is cheaply framed and from 1918-it's been hanging there 20 years. It is slightly off-white, but white, not yellow at all.

Quote from: Gasport on March 22, 2012, 11:32:42 PM
Isn't this thread in and of itself, a repop of the Renzi Monster Car discussion thread?   

Your mind turns in mysterious ways........ ;D

Bob's right.  I have thousands of newpaper clippings that are from the 30's through the 60's and most are not yellowed.  I have many packaged toys from the 60's and 70's; and that cardboard is not yellowed. 

I would always rather have an original. But, for some things originals are just too scarce and/or expensive to ever own. As long as a repop isn't represented as an original I don't have a problem with it. For example, I recieved my life-size Jack Davis Frankenstein poster today from Drive-in Moonlite Movies and it looks better than the originals probably. It's printed in hi-res on thick paper. I've never seen an original offered since the old ads in the '70s, so without this reprint I would probably never have a chance to own one. Even if you could find an original it would probably be in rough condition and cost a fortune. Reissues aren't all bad. The thing I hate is when dealers misrepresent a repop as an original which is simply fraud.

Quote from: horrorhunter on April 12, 2012, 06:00:12 PMAs long as a repop isn't represented as an original I don't have a problem with it.

But at some point they almost always are.

Quote from: horrorhunter on April 12, 2012, 06:00:12 PMThe thing I hate is when dealers misrepresent a repop as an original which is simply fraud.

Indeed! But shysters often stay clear of crossing that line by the simple expedient of shrugging and saying "I don't know. You tell me what it is."

>:(