Universal Monster Army

The news of NBC picking up David E. Kelly's Wonder Woman project is across the net.  She's going to be a crime fighter in LA and a corporate executive.  This project has been on and off for some time but the pilot should be made.  NBC picked it up in part due to his other show for them Harry's Law. 

NBC is finally under new management perhaps things can turn around. 

Maybe this will last more than Bionic Woman did (8 eps).  There just might be a couple of new shows to check out next fall.
 
Who would you like to see as Wonder Woman?  My picks, Alyssa Milano, Michelle Ryan, Vanessa Hudgens, Olivia Wilde, Olivia Munn or Morenna Barracian.   

Bring back Lynda Carter but not Cathy Lee Crosby.

Quote from: judd on January 22, 2011, 11:04:13 AM
The news of NBC picking up David E. Kelly's Wonder Woman project is across the net.  She's going to be a crime fighter in LA and a corporate executive.  This project has been on and off for some time but the pilot should be made.  NBC picked it up in part due to his other show for them Harry's Law. 

A corporate executive? Dear Lord, does this sound terrible! Why even call it Wonder Woman? What the heck does it have to do with a mystical super-powered amazon who battles evil? I wish these people would get a clue and realize that you don't change something that has worked for 70 years! If you want to make a show about a female crime fighter who is also a corporate executive, fine. Just don't call it Wonder Woman, because that ain't her.

A few fans have pointed out that in the current DC storyline Power Girl runs a company.

We will have to wait and see how it does.   

Adrianne Palicki Is NBC's Wonder Woman

By NELLIE ANDREEVA | Wednesday February 16, 2011 (*at*) 5:30pm PST

(http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac27/rtezai/UMA%20database/adriannepalicki-217x300.jpg)

After her standout performance on Fox's short-lived drama Lone Star, there was a lot of talk about Adrianne Palicki's star potential. She is on her way to prove it by landing one of the most iconic TV roles, that of Wonder Woman. Friday Night Lights alumna Palicki has been tapped for the title role in NBC's Wonder Woman pilot, David E. Kelley's reimagening of the iconic D.C. comic. In the reboot, from Warner Bros. TV, Wonder Woman/Diana Prince (Palicki) is a vigilante crime fighter in L.A. but also a successful corporate executive and a modern woman trying to balance all of the elements of her extraordinary life. Kelley is executive producing the project with long-time collaborator Bill D'Elia. Palicki won the role of Wonder Woman in a decisive manner; she was the only actress invited to test for it. Wonder Woman reunites Palicki with the pilot's director Jeff Reiner who previously served as director/co-executive producer on Friday Night Lights for the series' early run on NBC. Palicki, repped by UTA and Anonymous Content, next stars in the feature remake of Dawn.

The way I see it, it's all about perspective . . . the Lynda Carter series was, while a fairly faithful translation of the Golden Age WW, pretty broad camp IMO and not (in my estimation) appealing to a very mature audience. Try that same exact treatment today and it would go over like a skunk at a garden party.

I'm not saying a dramatic modernization of WW is going to be very well received either. I think the character, besides being nice eye candy, is pretty much an albatross.

Adrianne Palicki?  I'm not seeing that at all, I just don't see Wonder Woman!?  I was looking for a picture that might show me the concept but it seems in just about every picture ever taken of her she is a blonde.

I'll be stuck checking this out no matter what since Jo is really into Wonder Woman!  Though she is already fond of Linda Carter in the role so I don't know if Adrianne is gonna live up for her?!
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-sVXncxpD1Ok/TVyxu3GV7-I/AAAAAAAAApo/a9nVGfYcmpI/s320/adrianne-palicki-lone-star-large.jpg)

Had not really thought on this until now, but the Smallville versus of Clark/ Superman was a successful reboot -- BUT that is Superman with a history rich in dynamic characters from which to draw storlines. I've never really been a reader of WW, but did watch the series. I've a feeling that this may go the way of "Birds of Prey" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0312098/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0312098/)

I'll watch it strictly for the "jiggle factor" but I'd bet that I'm not their targeted audience.

There are a number of sites which have reviewed the script for the pilot.   It's kind of a mixed bag.  It's kind of like Wonder Woman in many ways but it's also different in others.  She rocks out to pop music and wines about men while eating ice cream.   

Tantin Phoenix's audition tape is available online.  I haven't seen it.

We'll know in May if NBC picks this up as a series.  The pilot starts filming in LA on March 15. 

Filming starts today in LA.  They will be filming at 555 s Flower street.  I expect pictures soon.

There aren't many fun shows on TV anymore.  I would like to see a fun superhero series.  I doubt NBC can do it but I hope I'm wrong.

The 1st picture of the new costume has been released. Its not a bad take on it.  The suit looks more like the current one in the comics but it's not an exact copy.  I would have given her red boots but that's just me.  It's certainly bright and colorful.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20474881,00.html (http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20474881,00.html)

Quote from: judd on March 18, 2011, 04:39:44 PM
The 1st picture of the new costume has been released. Its not a bad take on it.  The suit looks more like the current one in the comics but it's not an exact copy.  I would have given her red boots but that's just me.  It's certainly bright and colorful.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20474881,00.html (http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20474881,00.html)

Not terrible; it certainly could have been worse. But I do wish they would have gotten an athletic looking actress. Those pencil thin arms do not cry out 'amazon warrior' to me. But that's the typical Hollywood look nowadays -stick thin with no hips and enormous boobs.

Not as disastrous as it could have been!  I don't understand what the deal is with everyone wanting her beefed up?  Wonder Woman was never some huge "Chyna" looking woman?!  Last time I checked Linda Carter wasn't built like Arnold Schwarzenegger so why does the new Wonder Woman have to be some big brute?!

Quote from: zombiehorror on March 18, 2011, 09:06:47 PM
Not as disastrous as it could have been!  I don't understand what the deal is with everyone wanting her beefed up?  Wonder Woman was never some huge "Chyna" looking woman?!  Last time I checked Linda Carter wasn't built like Arnold Schwarzenegger so why does the new Wonder Woman have to be some big brute?!

Oh no, I would NOT want to see a Chyna-sized woman! But just someone who looks like they could actually be a warrior/athlete, and not a skinny model. Look at the way Alex Ross draws Wonder Woman -

(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/walkie20/rosswonderwoman.jpg)

Beautiful but strong. Really, I wish they'd made a Wonder Woman movie years ago and cast Lucy Lawless in the role. She looked perfect.

Love that sketch!  And Lucy Lawless would have been awesome!

(http://images.fandango.com/images/fandangoblog/wonderwomanaplicki-main.jpg)


Here's the pic. Looks like bad cosplay to me.
She's cute, but she's no Diana prince!

I like the costume, and I'm curious as to what David E. Kelly might do with the show. I liked Boston Legal, overall, in how they were able to mix impassioned social discourse with some off-the-wall humor. I also think Wonder Woman is a good candidate for this type of reboot. While Wonder Woman is always spoken of as a major character along with Superman and Batman, I'm not really sure she ever had the broad fan base those two have. Because of this, you can't play it too safe by simply having a super-powered character chase down petty crooks every week. That may be fun as a one-of movie, but can't really sustain a series.

Quote from: Gillfan on March 19, 2011, 12:08:51 PM
(http://images.fandango.com/images/fandangoblog/wonderwomanaplicki-main.jpg)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_j9PQWPKjVZs/TDQ1MFDWaVI/AAAAAAAAB4s/Ouemc3Md1Nk/s1600/wonder_woman.jpg)


What design are you referring to?

 The two on the end are out.  Find some lasses to model the rest for me Gillfan, and I'll get back to you.......eventually.   ;D

The costume has been slightly changed.  A number of sites have posted filming pictures of the pilot.  The pants are now dark blue with white stripes on the sides.  The boots are red.  She looks more like the classic Wonder Woman than the promo picture.

I think the actual costume is better than the promo picture one. 

Quote from: judd on March 30, 2011, 12:56:57 PM
The costume has been slightly changed.  A number of sites have posted filming pictures of the pilot.  The pants are now dark blue with white stripes on the sides.  The boots are red.  She looks more like the classic Wonder Woman than the promo picture.

I think the actual costume is better than the promo picture one.

Good news-I don't think anyone I've spoken to liked those blue boots.

(http://static03.mediaite.com/themarysue/uploads/2011/03/IMG_0137.jpeg)

video here

http://www.themarysue.com/wonder-woman-costume-changes/ (http://www.themarysue.com/wonder-woman-costume-changes/)

Still, better than:
(http://bmj2k.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/clc.jpg?w=338&h=377)

The thing is though that the Lynda Carter Wonder Woman has for obvious reasons become the gold standard by which any future screen Wonder Woman will be measured.

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/WonderWoman1.jpg) (http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/wonder_woman-1.jpg)

And they have to measure up! Sadly Adrianne Palicki doesn't.

:(

Quote from: Gillfan on March 30, 2011, 09:49:11 PM
Still, better than:
(http://bmj2k.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/clc.jpg?w=338&h=377)

But had they put her in the proper costume and dyed her hair black, she might have been pretty good.

:-\

I still don't like the costume.  Those pants look like the pajama jeans I've been seeing advertised on TV.  And, maybe it's just me, but when she makes that face, it kinda reminds me of Rosie O'Donnell.  Yikes.  Personally, I'll take Linda in the old costume.

Quote from: Gillfan on March 30, 2011, 09:43:07 PM
(http://static03.mediaite.com/themarysue/uploads/2011/03/IMG_0137.jpeg)

Not sure why DC approved this show. Especailly when they are trying to compete with Marvel who has done a great job with the superhero franchise. There is supposed to be a Wonder Woman movie planned which will lead up to a JLA movie. This can only hurt the franchise, cause frankly it looks like crap.   

Quote from: hammerfan on March 31, 2011, 08:40:11 AM
Not sure why DC approved this show. Especailly when they are trying to compete with Marvel who has done a great job with the superhero franchise. There is supposed to be a Wonder Woman movie planned which will lead up to a JLA movie. This can only hurt the franchise, cause frankly it looks like crap.

I don't know, I'm willing to give it a look. I'm glad they made the costume changes they did (getting rid of those blue boots especially). With all the "re-boots" they make of movies and shows nowadays, I don't know how much of the potential audience really cares if there us a current TV show and a movie showing different versions of the same character.

Here are more pics of Wonder Woman Lynda Carter from the days when actresses didn't habitually implant themselves.

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/ALynda2.jpg)

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/ALynda3.jpg)

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/ALynda.jpg)

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/WonderWoman.jpg)

Superheroines shoudn't be putting up false fronts anyway of course.

;)

 

Quote from: Hepcat on March 30, 2011, 10:25:41 PM
The thing is though that the Lynda Carter Wonder Woman has for obvious reasons become the gold standard by which any future screen Wonder Woman will be measured.

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/wonder_woman-1.jpg)

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/WonderWoman1.jpg)

And they have to measure up! Sadly Adrianne Palicki doesn't.

:(

SEE?!?!? We CAN agree on a woman!! Lynda Carter is GORGEOUS!!  :D

Quote from: Scatter on April 01, 2011, 04:36:51 PM
SEE?!?!? We CAN agree on a woman!! Lynda Carter is GORGEOUS!!  :D

Quote from: Moonshadow on March 18, 2011, 11:22:41 PM
Really, I wish they'd made a Wonder Woman movie years ago and cast Lucy Lawless in the role. She looked perfect.

You're absolutely right. It's very annoying that Hollywood missed the opportunity twelve or so years ago because the biggest problem in doing Wonder Woman is the casting. Actresses that look the part are very few and far between and here was one virtually screaming to be cast in the part.

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/Lucy_Lawless_3.jpg)

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/LucyLawless2.jpg)

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/Lucy_Lawless_01.jpg)

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/LucyLawless6.jpg)

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/Lucy_Lawless_8.jpg)

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/LucyLawless7.jpg)

What she's doing as a blonde though is beyond me.

???

Lynda Carter is hard to top, curves all day and she owned that role.

The costume will be a hinderance. Most of us like the iconic WW costume. As someone else said, we are probably not the demographic for the show. If they are indeed shooting for the younger crwod, they will have to update the costume. Maybe black leather?

I can hear howls of laughter from teenagers in my neighborhood at the current photos of the new WW in her blue pants and red boots. She looks like she's leaving Studio 54 circa 1977.

The only change I'd be willing to consider in the costume Lynda Carter wore on the show's last two seasons is for the shorts to be replaced by the loose, short skirt Wonder Woman wore when first introduced.

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/ASensation.jpg)

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/AWonderWoman4.jpg)

Quite simply, hardly any women look good in granny shorts while a loose, short skirt flatters just about any woman with good legs.

8)

From Aintitcoolnews~

Geekshow's Scott Carelli saw a test-screening cut of David E. Kelley's "Wonder Woman" and offered a lot of details:

* Diana apparently doesn't at any time during the pilot wear the "blue boot" outfit from that first, famous photo Warner Bros. released.

* The first time we see Diana she's on Hollywood Boulevard in the red-boot costume of which we all saw photos.

* At some point she switches to the iconic star-spangled panties.

* Carelli, having earlier read a pilot script, said the pilot itself was better than he thought it would be – but it still "wasn't even as good as 'Smallville.'"

* Carelli said the pilot was, however, promising enough to get him to watch a second episode.

* According to Carelli: my pal Tracie Thoms ("Wonderfalls," "Cold Case"), who plays Diana's Girl Friday, is the best thing in the pilot.

* Palicki is "really good" as the title character but is generally let down by David E. Kelley's script.

* Cary Elwes is decent as the chief executive at Diana's Themyscera Industries.

* Elizabeth Hurley is "cheesy" as Veronica Cale, the pilot's Lex Luthor surrogate.

* Carelli hated "Knight Rider" star Justin Bruening, who's apparently a real stiff as Diana's ex Steve Trevor, and hopes the role will be recast.

* The pilot felt more like a cross between "Ally McBeal" and "Boston Legal" than Wonder Woman.

* Diana both kills (apparently quite cavalierly) and tortures men in the pilot Carelli saw.

* The lasso is frequently employed as an Indiana Jones-type whip.

* Carelli was okay with the fight sequences, in which Diana comes off as "a warrior."

* We learn Diana left Trevor (and a life in New York) because she feared her enemies could harm any romantic interest she might pursue.

* In the pilot, Diana's home island of Themyscera is apparently a lot like Dharma Island from "Lost": once one leaves it, it's essentially impossible to find again.

NBC will announce whether or not it's taking "Wonder Woman" to series no later than next Monday.

The NBC upfronts are on Monday May 16.  They will announce their schedule for the next season then. 

If you're a fan I went to Big Lots today and picked up the animated DVD movie for $3.

>The pilot felt more like a cross between "Ally McBeal" and "Boston Legal" than Wonder Woman<

Exactly what I was afraid of - refried "Lois & Clark" soapcrap.

Please tell me they brought back Lyle Waggoner. ;)

The NBC network upfronts will be presented on Monday May 16.  There are a few reliable entertainment web sites (TVbythenumbers) and others, which are reporting NBC has picked up Wonder Woman for a series.  It's isn't official yet.

Good grief..........this is going to be a disaster. Who's the target audience for this?? The 70s show with Lynda Carter worked because it was played for camp. I mean COME ON.............the lasso of truth. Bullet-deflecting bracelets?? Invisible planes?? It HAS to be played for camp to work, and this seems like they're taking it SERIOUSLY.

Variety has reported today NBC is not going to pick up Wonder Woman anytime soon.  Chuck is getting a 13 episode order.

One website reports one thing and another site reports the exact opposite.  Welcome to the digital age.

As Judd said, it seems to be a no go:

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/20066.html (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/20066.html)

Quote from: Scatter on May 11, 2011, 08:10:44 PM
Good grief..........this is going to be a disaster. Who's the target audience for this?? The 70s show with Lynda Carter worked because it was played for camp. I mean COME ON.............the lasso of truth. Bullet-deflecting bracelets?? Invisible planes?? It HAS to be played for camp to work, and this seems like they're taking it SERIOUSLY.

I disagree. Can any superhero really be taken seriously? Yet the superhero movies and TV series that have best passed the test of time were not played campy but straight.

???

A number of sites are reporting NBC passed on the Wonder Woman series.  It's too bad the pilot didn't work out.  I think the character has potential.

Maybe we'll get to view the pilot someday.

Quote from: Hepcat on May 13, 2011, 09:34:45 AM
I disagree. Can any superhero really be taken seriously? Yet the superhero movies and TV series that have best passed the test of time were not played campy but straight.

???

Batman wasn't played for camp, or hasn't passed the test of time? Or both?

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRywjmY4PrxbH3OJRoa6HNeGHykgidMPoCn7iIQO-5upJFq8w4nXg)

The point is, Batman, Superman, The Green Hornet, The Hulk, Ironman, etc, etc COULD be played straight. How are you going to play it straight when WonderWoman uses her freaking bracelets to stop an Uzi attack? Are you going to play it straight when she throws her Golden Lasso Of Truth around a criminal and he is forced to confess?? Or subdues the enemy by tossing her Tiara Of Destruction at them? How about her invisible airplane?

Batman, Superman, The Green Hornet, The Hulk, Ironman.............none of them are saddled with these ridiculous accoutrement. Even the silly supervillains can be laid aside without doing damage. Superman will still have his powers. Batman won't change. Better yet, a new spin can be put on the villains as was done with Heath Ledger's The Joker.

But the things we're talking about are definitional to WonderWoman. The bracelets, the Lasso, the inviso-plane. Take them away and you no longer HAVE WonderWoman. Keep them, as you MUST, and they CANNOT be played straight without the entire production looking asinine.

Nobody is going to buy WonderWoman stopping bullets with her bracelets. Or wrapping a gold rope around someone and forcing them to spill the beans. Or flying through the air in a sitting position at the helm of an invisible airplane. You're going to be FORCED to play that stuff for camp.

Either way, you're going to get laughter. Playing it straight while WW flails like an idiot stopping bullets with her bracelets, or uses her hemp lie detector (etc etc) is GOING to get laughs.

Playing it for camp is going to get laughs too.

The difference is, in only one of those scenarios is the laughter going to be INTENTIONAL, and keep the sponsors, and give the show a chance to hit.

We're all either going to laugh WITH this show or AT this show. As it stands, the probability of the latter occurring is far more likely. I would confidently assume that the network and potential sponsors saw that as well, and that's precisely why the show went into the trashcan.

Quote from: Scatter on May 13, 2011, 03:27:28 PM
Batman wasn't played for camp, or hasn't passed the test of time? Or both?

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRywjmY4PrxbH3OJRoa6HNeGHykgidMPoCn7iIQO-5upJFq8w4nXg)

The Batman show did not really pass the test of time. It was despised by hardcore Batman fans until just recently for portraying their hero as a buffoon to the mass market. The fear among comic fans when the eighties movie version was planned was that the movie would take its cue from the TV show. It's only been the effects of nostalgia that have softened comic fans' condemnation of the TV show in recent years. 

As far as Wonder Woman's powers go, super speed and magic are old hat. There's nothing more or less bizarre about those than the powers of superheroes going back as far as you want. Personally I think Captain America is the silliest and most asinine hero of them all. Somewhat augmented strength and a shield and he seeks to do battle with entire companies of armed men.

???

Quote from: Hepcat on May 13, 2011, 04:00:14 PM
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRywjmY4PrxbH3OJRoa6HNeGHykgidMPoCn7iIQO-5upJFq8w4nXg)

The Batman show did not really pass the test of time. It was despised by hardcore Batman fans until just recently for portraying their hero as a buffoon to the mass market. The fear among comic fans when the eighties movie version was planned was that the movie would take its cue from the TV show. It's only been the effects of nostalgia that have softened comic fans' condemnation of the TV show in recent years. 

???

The Batman TV show was a cultural phenomenon that is still a juggernaut today. In every genre and niche there are going to be reactionary purists. And that's not a bad thing, since it provides a corrective when things get too far afield. But to suggest that the TV show did NOT stand the test of time because this "niche within a niche" group of purists didn't like it?? Come now, kitty. It's STILL an industry unto itself 45 years after hitting the airwaves.

Quote from: Hepcat on May 13, 2011, 04:00:14 PM
Personally I think Captain America is the silliest and most asinine hero of them all. Somewhat augmented strength and a shield and he seeks to do battle with entire companies of armed men.

???

I'm with you that CA is not feasible as a TV/movie hero............for PRECISELY the same reason I don't believe WonderWoman can be played straight. Now, I love Captain America as a comic book, and I'll likely go see the movie when it hits WalMart.

But a rejection of CA as a viable modern media hero, when his accoutrement are FAR less silly than WW's, (who you DO accept as a viable modern media hero) seems a bit incongruous.  After all, police and military STILL use shields today. But I can't recall  ever hearing about anybody from the police or military getting a confession by wrapping a Golden Lasso around a perp, or honoring some brave officer with a Medal Of Valor for saving his comrades by deflecting gunfire with his bracelets.

Quote from: Scatter on May 13, 2011, 04:14:33 PM
The Batman TV show was a cultural phenomenon that is still a juggernaut today.

May I remind you that "cultural phenomenon" and "good" are not one and the same thing? Comic book fans, myself included, will readily concede that the Batman TV show was indeed a cultural phenomenon, but will still insist that his depiction was a travesty and that the show therefore sucked.

Quote from: Scatter on May 13, 2011, 04:24:38 PM...or honoring some brave officer with a Medal Of Valor for saving his comrades by deflecting gunfire with his bracelets.

I'm with you on that point. I think bracelets on a man would be gay. But they're perfectly acceptable on a woman. So why therefore should Wonder Woman not deflect bullets with these bracelets when the Flash catches bullets in his hand?

Quote from: Scatter on May 13, 2011, 04:24:38 PMBut a rejection of CA as a viable modern media hero, when his accoutrement are FAR less silly than WW's, (who you DO accept as a viable modern media hero) seems a bit incongruous.

But I thought you liked Wonder Woman Lynda Carter's accoutrements.

And you seem to have liked the Wonder Woman TV show from the seventies. Well I wouldn't term that one "camp" anyway, particularly not the last two seasons which were set in the present. It wasn't even close to having the level of self-deprecating humour that the Batman show from the sixties had. Would you be opposed to that type of portrayal of Wonder Woman again?

And how about Serinda Swan, who played Zatanna on Smallville, as Wonder Woman?

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/Aserinda-swan-1.jpg)

???

I don't see how any thing in Wonder Woman is any sillier than anything that one has to suspend disbelief for in any other comic book or comic book film?!?!

QuoteAnd how about Serinda Swan, who played Zatanna on Smallville, as Wonder Woman?

Is that a trick of the light?

Quote from: Hepcat on May 13, 2011, 04:00:14 PMPersonally I think Captain America is the silliest and most asinine hero of them all. Somewhat augmented strength and a shield and he seeks to do battle with entire companies of armed men. 

I never thought they'd pull off Thor but they did.  I'm sure Cap will be just as good if not better.

And Thor was great fun despite the hypothesis demanding the suspension of belief!

8)

Looks like it ain't gonna happen, folks.


http://tv.yahoo.com/blog/nbc-passes-on-wonder-woman-pilot--2972 (http://tv.yahoo.com/blog/nbc-passes-on-wonder-woman-pilot--2972)

Quote from: Hepcat on May 13, 2011, 08:35:21 PM
May I remind you that "cultural phenomenon" and "good" are not one and the same thing? Comic book fans, myself included, will readily concede that the Batman TV show was indeed a cultural phenomenon, but will still insist that his depiction was a travesty and that the show therefore sucked.

We weren't talking about your opinion of the show. We were discussing your contention that Superheroes played for camp don't stand the test of time. And Batman clearly does. Nothing on TV was ever campier. Whether you personally liked it or not is irrelevant. It stands the test of time.

QuoteI'm with you on that point. I think bracelets on a man would be gay. But they're perfectly acceptable on a woman. So why therefore should Wonder Woman not deflect bullets with these bracelets when the Flash catches bullets in his hand?

Well, I'll concede that the bracelets are silly, but LESS silly than the Golden Lasso Of Truth. Can't wait for the defense of that one.  ;)

QuoteBut I thought you liked Wonder Woman Lynda Carter's accoutrements.

I likes the accoutrement Lynda Carter carried to the role. And they had nothing to do with the bracelets, lasso, or inviso-plane.

QuoteAnd you seem to have liked the Wonder Woman TV show from the seventies.

No, I liked Lynda Carter from the seventies.

QuoteWell I wouldn't term that one "camp" anyway, particularly not the last two seasons which were set in the present. It wasn't even close to having the level of self-deprecating humour that the Batman show from the sixties had. Would you be opposed to that type of portrayal of Wonder Woman again?

We'd differ on the camp quotient.........it's not as sharp as Batman, but it's there. It's not a matter of opposition to a type of portrayal as much as an opposition to trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Material this innately cornball played for straight drama is like casting Paris Hilton as Shakespeare's Ophelia. It will wind up comedy whether you want it to or not.

QuoteAnd how about Serinda Swan, who played Zatanna on Smallville, as Wonder Woman?

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/Aserinda-swan-1.jpg)

???

Still doesn't touch Lynda Carter. I wouldn't watch it for Serinda, but I watched WW whenever I did solely for Lynda.

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRfvGSzlrMH_U73OwiKT4nW9REnAcBWA0tUbCBj4awrUrOYTdIw)

Sigh...........

Quote from: Hepcat on May 14, 2011, 09:48:44 AM
And Thor was great fun despite the hypothesis demanding the suspension of belief!

8)

However, there are rumblings in the internet geek Thor purist camp who just HATE it.  ;)

Quote from: Scatter on May 14, 2011, 11:49:31 PM
However, there are rumblings in the internet geek Thor purist camp who just HATE it.  ;)

And I'm sure that if the internet had been around in the sixties there would have been much rumbling among Batman purists over the Batman series!  I don't know about the series standing the test of time either; especially given the darker side of Batman that we've seen in the movies, Batman and Robin, being the exception which was just a highly overpriced version of the old show.

Quote from: Scatter on May 14, 2011, 11:46:31 PM
We weren't talking about your opinion of the show. We were discussing your contention that Superheroes played for camp don't stand the test of time. And Batman clearly does. Nothing on TV was ever campier. Whether you personally liked it or not is irrelevant. It stands the test of time.

If the TV show has stood the test of time, why have Batman fans never clamoured for a similar portrayal of Batman in the movies? They do not. They want a darker, grittier Batman played straight.

Quote from: Scatter on May 14, 2011, 11:46:31 PMNo, I liked Lynda Carter from the seventies.

Whether you personally liked the TV show or not is irrelevant. It has clearly stood the test of time since Wonder Woman fans continue to clamour for the same portrayal of the character.

Quote from: Scatter on May 14, 2011, 11:46:31 PMWell, I'll concede that the bracelets are silly, but LESS silly than the Golden Lasso Of Truth. Can't wait for the defense of that one.

It's her magic lasso. Heroes with magical powers have a long history both on the screen and in comic books. Dr. Strange, Scarlet Witch, Dr. Fate and Zatanna all have their own enthusiastic fan base. In fact, the reason Serinda has been nominated by fans for the role of Wonder Woman is because they liked her portrayal of Zatanna in Smallville:

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/serinda-swan-as-zatanna.jpg)

:)

I think it is an artifact of our modern culture.
Batman as portrayed by Adam West came from a simpler time. 
We had good guys and we had bad guys.

Good Guys                  Bad Guys
Allies                          Axis
democracy                   commies
Batman                       Supercriminal of the week
Captain Kirk                 Klingon/Romulan/Gorn of the week
James West                 Dr Loveless
Colonel Hogan              Colonel Klink

And there was a gap between the two. Good guys were almost always good;  bad guys rarely had a redeeming quality.  But that was the world in the late 20th century.  But as the century closed, the lines between good and bad; between light and dark; between heroes and villains faded.  Eventually, heroes had flaws.  Good guys did bad things once in a while.  Bad guys occasionally showed mercy.

Batman the TV series was based on a comic book.
Batman the "Dark Knight" was based on a "Graphic Novel."

The evolution from comic book to graphic novel is more than just a shift from pulp to glossy paper.  I like to joke the only difference between the two is the cost. 

But there is more to it than that.   For decades, comic books were kid stuff and regulated by much the same standards as TV and the movies. 
On TV one never saw people of the opposite sex in the same bed, go to the bathroom or have an interracial relationship.
The first couple to share a bed on TV?  Herman & Lily Munster.
If Mayberry was in South Carolina, where were the African-Americans?
The first interracial couple?  The earliest I can think of was George and Louise Jefferson's neighbors.
For many years crime in movies could not pay.  The bad guys had to get caught, and the good guys had to prevail.  The most controversial and memorable movies and TV shows of the time attempted to challenge the status quo.

My point, and I am coming to it, is that as society has evolved--so has its entertainment. 

Is it good or bad?  I cannot say.  I enjoy Adam West's Batman.  It was good, light fun.
The "Dark Knight" Batmen not so much.  I appreciate the more complex characters.  But the over the top CG and special effects that defy reality (especially physics)--lets just say it makes more sense on a comic book page than it does on the screen.

And as regards Wonder Woman:  I'm a guy.  I won't even notice if her airplane is invisible or her Golden Lasso of Truth is silly.  Heck, I'm not sure I'll notice it there is a set or other actors.  I watched the original Wonder Woman and all I remember of it is Lynda Carter.

Quote from: Hepcat on May 15, 2011, 09:35:27 AM
If the TV show has stood the test of time, why have Batman fans never clamoured for a similar portrayal of Batman in the movies? They do not. They want a darker, grittier Batman played straight.

Again, you refer to the geek niche. Notice the word "NICHE". Popularity is definitionally independent of geek niches, which definitionally are populated by a small number of geeks. Popularity is not determined by small numbers of geeks. It's determined by the masses. Case in point, the niche Batman geeks hate the series...........yet the series is still outrageously popular 45 years later. So much for the import of geek niches in relation to "standing the test of time".

QuoteWhether you personally liked the TV show or not is irrelevant. It has clearly stood the test of time since Wonder Woman fans continue to clamour for the same portrayal of the character.

A little light on the logic and facts. Can you point me to the clamoring hordes of WW fans who are rising up in unison to demand a portrayal along the lines of the 70s show?? For that matter, can you point me to the clamoring hordes who want the NEW type of WW portrayal?? Because, were they there, you can be certain this latest project wouldn't currently reside in the recesses of the round file cabinet.

QuoteIt's her magic lasso. Heroes with magical powers have a long history both on the screen and in comic books. Dr. Strange, Scarlet Witch, Dr. Fate and Zatanna all have their own enthusiastic fan base.

Ah............of course.  Everything has an "enthusiastic fan base" somewhere. The question is, whether that fan base has the mass to support a TV show and entice sponsors, or whether it's only wildly popular among the particular tiny geek niche in question.

QuoteIn fact, the reason Serinda has been nominated by fans for the role of Wonder Woman is because they liked her portrayal of Zatanna in Smallville:

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g434/Balticprince/serinda-swan-as-zatanna.jpg)

:)

Yup, she's pretty. Again, how that makes the current WW show as currently constructed a viable option for primtime viewing escapes me. And the sponsors. And the Networks. And you too apparently.  ;)

Quote from: zombiehorror on May 15, 2011, 06:01:00 AM
And I'm sure that if the internet had been around in the sixties there would have been much rumbling among Batman purists over the Batman series!

Yup. That was my point. The purists always rumble. Yawn.

QuoteI don't know about the series standing the test of time either; especially given the darker side of Batman that we've seen in the movies, Batman and Robin, being the exception which was just a highly overpriced version of the old show.

It's still wildly popular. It still generates a ton of money. It's still being shown on TV. The stars are still in demand on the convention circuit. And yet it hasn't filmed a new episode in over 40 years. Yeah, I don't know why anyone would consider that standing the test of time.

Remember the premise Hep put forth...........Superhero shows played for camp never stand the test of time. Whether the darker or more campy portrayal is more popular now isn't the question being addressed. I prefer the darker portrayal myself, but still love the old series. And I'm quite certain I'm not alone. It doesn't have to, and in fact is not, an "either/or" question. The concurrent popularity of the campy along with the gritty makes that inarguable.

The Batman graphic novel geek may hate the series, but he's marginalized numerically. The vast majority have no difficulties loving both portrayals for what they are, and appreciating them both.

There are a couple of issues that might explain the failure of the latest iteration of Wonder Woman.

First off:  The costume:  There really isn't that much to it --er-- I mean, there are a limited number of options one can have with a red bustier and blue Y fronts.  Fredricks of Hollywood aside, the costume will have to remain pretty much the same.  Sure, a few fetishists might argue over which hip the lasso should hang, or the precise constellation of stars in her undies. ::)

You want a dark knight version?  I really don't think Wonder Woman would look better in black rubber armor, George Clooney nipples, or not. :P

Lynda Carter has a certain charm.  The actress cast as Wonder Woman will need to be more than a pretty face.  I really don't know about any of the casting choices, but I cannot think of a modern actress that I could see as WW. 

That might be why I never really liked the Batman movies.  Michael Keaton?  Mr Mom in a cape?
The rest have been just as doofy, each in their own way.  I mean, I liked the movies as a good way to spend an afternoon. Lots of action and stuff blowing up is OK.  But they could have killed Batman in any of those movies and I would not have given the hindquarters of the nearest Rattus Norvitacus.  I could never really care about any one of them.

And--maybe this is a long shot.  Perhaps the scripts and/or story treatments sucked and no one was willing to admit it.

Now I see NBC decided not to pick it up for the Fall season...


Bizarro Jeff

I'm sorry but I still don't see how Batman the series has stood the test of time?!  It's dated way more than most shows of that period, it is the epitome of 60's cheese and there was a lot of cheese in the 60's.  I am not a Batman purist, I've read some of the comics and seen all the films (more because they interested me than, "Oh gotta see that it's Batman.") and some of the cartoons.  The Batman series stands as the worst depiction of the character hands down you don't have to be a fanboy to see that.  Bad dialogue, cheap/ill fitting costumes.......and what the hell was with Romero's moustache under that make up?!

That being said I still watch it when it's on, which looks like right now you can only see it on HUB probably due to the fact that ABC owns both and were looking for a time filler, and the kids even watch Batman The Movie on Netflix.  But just because a 3 1/2 year old and a 5 year old watch it doesn't mean it's stood the test of time.....LOL!

Quote from: zombiehorror on May 16, 2011, 11:59:30 AM
I'm sorry but I still don't see how Batman the series has stood the test of time?!  It's dated way more than most shows of that period, it is the epitome of 60's cheese and there was a lot of cheese in the 60's.  I am not a Batman purist, I've read some of the comics and seen all the films (more because they interested me than, "Oh gotta see that it's Batman.") and some of the cartoons.  The Batman series stands as the worst depiction of the character hands down you don't have to be a fanboy to see that.  Bad dialogue, cheap/ill fitting costumes.......and what the hell was with Romero's moustache under that make up?!

That being said I still watch it when it's on, which looks like right now you can only see it on HUB probably due to the fact that ABC owns both and were looking for a time filler, and the kids even watch Batman The Movie on Netflix.  But just because a 3 1/2 year old and a 5 year old watch it doesn't mean it's stood the test of time.....LOL!

Yes.............the 60s cheeziness is part of the appeal. It was part of the appeal even back then. It was made to be campy.  Even YOU still watch it. "This is the worst portrayal of Batman ever..........but I still watch it 45 years later. But it hasn't stood the test of time."

I'll let the dichotomies stew.  :D ;)

Sometimes, if it wasn't for irony, we'd have nothing to talk about. ;)

Quote from: Scatter on May 16, 2011, 08:34:11 PM
Yes.............the 60s cheeziness is part of the appeal. It was part of the appeal even back then. It was made to be campy.  Even YOU still watch it. "This is the worst portrayal of Batman ever..........but I still watch it 45 years later. But it hasn't stood the test of time."

I'll let the dichotomies stew.  :D ;)

Watching it for nostalgia's sake isn't the same as watching it because it's stood the test of time?!?

It was hip in the 60's to mock the establishment and that aspect of Batman is a bit dated now.  It's still a fun show though.  The joke does wear thin after a bit.  The Catwoman, Joker, Penguin and Riddler episodes are well done the other villians, not so much.

Wonder Woman is a tough character to work with.  If you make her like Marston did she comes across as too perfect for the modern audience.   I think Marston had a formula which worked at the time and other writers with the exception of Perez weren't able to make the character appeal to the audience.

Quote from: Scatter on May 15, 2011, 03:24:35 PM
Again, you refer to the geek niche. Notice the word "NICHE". Popularity is definitionally independent of geek niches, which definitionally are populated by a small number of geeks. Popularity is not determined by small numbers of geeks. It's determined by the masses. Case in point, the niche Batman geeks hate the series...........yet the series is still outrageously popular 45 years later. So much for the import of geek niches in relation to "standing the test of time".

But the Batman show is only popular among a certain specific geek niche itself - that being sixties nostalgists (and little kids of course who would like any superhero TV show including a relaunched Wonder Woman). Everybody else thinks the sixties Batman TV show is dated and silly.

Quote from: ScatterCan you point me to the clamoring hordes of WW fans who are rising up in unison to demand a portrayal along the lines of the 70s show?? For that matter, can you point me to the clamoring hordes who want the NEW type of WW portrayal??

Right here, and on numerous similar discussion forums where the new potential Wonder Woman TV show has been a hot topic of discussion. And the TV networks take the opinions expressed by fans on these boards very seriously. Why do you think they altered the first costume in which Adrianne was portrayed as Wonder Woman if not for negative fan commentary?

QuoteYup, she's pretty. Again, how that makes the current WW show as currently constructed a viable option for primtime viewing escapes me.

But you yourself already admitted that you watched the original Wonder Woman series because you liked to watch Lynda Carter in the role. Therefore you are effectively conceding that if the right actress portrays Wonder Woman, then you'd watch the show! What makes you think you're the only one?

Quote from: ScatterYup. That was my point. The purists always rumble. Yawn.

And are you not yourself one of the "purists" who have been condemning the "Van Helsing" movie because its portrayal of Dracula and other monsters failed to live up to your existing notions of the characters? The movie had the plot, the setting and action galore, but you hated the movie because Drac wasn't right! Because he was too campy!

Quote from: ScatterRemember the premise Hep put forth...........Superhero shows played for camp never stand the test of time.

Hold it right there. I said that the shows that have best served the test of time are those where the superheroes have been played straight and not campy.

And our fundamental disagreement concerns whether Wonder Woman could indeed be a viable TV show/movie in this day and age in her original costume if they found the right actress and script. I've been arguing that she could. You seem to be arguing the opposite despite the fact that you watched the TV show from the seventies.

With the right scripting, Adrianne's Wonder Woman could have had an excellent audience:



:o

OK, I think I have it now.........

Generating a ton of money and still being on the air over 40 years after its inception is not standing the test of time (because the geeks don't like it)..........Batman the series is generally hated despite its continuing popularity (as long as you define popularity by a few geeks living in their parents' basement) .........a few geeks on websites such as this = clamoring hordes instead of niche geeks (who can change a costume but somehow whose clamoring horde-dom couldn't get the series even green-lighted), my rejection of Van Helsing's Drac is based upon his "campiness", and my love of Lynda Carter in a camp version of WW means the right costume-filler would render me a fan of a ridiculous concept played straight (which is nothing like the portrayal in the 70s series).

Is that about it?? 

We'll have to agree to disagree .  ;D

Hold it right there. I saw you palm that card.

Quote from: Scatter...a few geeks on websites such as this = clamoring hordes instead of niche geeks....

You were the one who introduced the concept of geeks into this discussion in a transparent attempt to deride Wonder Woman and other superhero movie fans. And you were also the one who demanded the "hordes" of supporters, which is setting the bar higher than any level that could reasonably be expected for a new project. People don't march in mobs to demand TV shows. And now you're the one setting up a straw man argument misrepresenting my position by crudely juxtaposing the two concepts.

I'm simply arguing that Wonder Woman is no more ridiculous than any other superhero recently portrayed in film and thus has as good a chance as any to be successful. Moreover, I'm also saying that any Wonder Woman TV show should be played straight since every other superhero movie and TV show in the last thirty years has been played straight.

:)

Well I've seen the Wonder Woman pilot in it's entirety.  I expect the NBC cops to show up soon.  I can't add much to what the many other reviewers have stated.  Overall I thought it was weak.  I wasn't the worst comic book pilot ever done (Superpup).  It wasn't that good either.  I liked elements of it.

Good stuff:

I thought Adrianne was really good in it.  She looks like WW and the costume doesn't look silly on her.  The action scenes were good but not great.  Her use of the lasso was nifty.  I liked her jet.  The gag cameos were amusing.   Her bullet deflecting was cool.  There's a scene when she visits a young man in a hospital and she really came across as Wonder Woman in it.

The bad:

The plot is clunky.  The story isn't all that interesting.   Diana breaks numerous laws such as, slandering people in public, using violence in unethical ways and breaking into private companies.  She has little regard for the law or the legal system and gets away with it.  Not very super heroic.  She advisiors tell her she needs to be more careful but she ignores them.  It's weird.   No mention is made of her orgins or faith.  We see Greek statues in her office. 

She has a secret identity but it doesn't work or make sense.  Diana Price owns a small apartment and she cat named Sylvester.  she watches TV and eats chips and had no friends on her Facebook page. 

Her CEO chews her out during a meeting over dolls and she's the big boss.  Her dismisses her views on the toys.  It's an odd scene.

They try to show that being a super hero isn't all that and it almost works but the Diana Prince sub plot is just tacked on for no good reason.

Overall the whole thing is weak but parts of it work.

Sounds like the typical result of MBA's and marketing gurus trying to reach some target demographic. 

I've given this more thought and time to sink in.  In this pilot Diana doesn't really act like Diana from the comics, TV series or cartoons.  She's behaves like the Huntress.  She believes the ends justify the means and that isn't Wonder Woman.  Some viewers may not have an issue with a reworking of the character.  I personally think one should stay true to the spirit of the character.

For me I just didn't think the story was all that interesting.  I thought the plot was kind of run of the mill.

In the pilot you have a character called Wonder Woman who doesn't really act like Wonder Woman and a medicore plot.

Quote from: judd on September 13, 2011, 03:11:16 PMShe believes the ends justify the means and that isn't Wonder Woman.  Some viewers may not have an issue with a reworking of the character.  I personally think one should stay true to the spirit of the character.

I agree. Wonder Woman should be the Wonder Woman that we all know. Otherwise why do Wonder Woman at all? Do another character.

:-\