Author Topic: Jason Voorhees is an Evil Dead Deadite?  (Read 214 times)

the_last_gunslinger

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Jason Voorhees is an Evil Dead Deadite?
« on: November 06, 2017, 03:17:37 PM »
http://bloody-disgusting.com/movie/3468032/jason-goes-hell-director-says-jason-canonically-evil-dead-deadite/

The director of "Jason Goes to Hell: The Final Friday" recently stated in an interview that his inclusion of the Necronomicon Ex mortis in the 9th "Friday" movie was designed to be more than an easter egg for horror fans. He was attempting to establish a mythology for Jason.

An excerpt:

She [Pamela Voorhees] makes a deal with the devil by reading from the Necronomicon to bring back her son. This is why Jason isnít Jason. Heís Jason plus The Evil Dead, and now I can believe that he can go from a little boy that lives in a lake, to a full grown man in a couple of months, to Zombie Jason, to never being able to kill this guy. That, to me, is way more interesting as a mashup, and [Sam] Raimi loved it!Ē

What do you think? Is it plausible, interesting/ Or way off base. Me personally, who's favorite horror franchise is "The Evil Dead," I don't think it makes a lot of sense. First, the Necronomicon, as far as we know, has nothing to do with the devil, or deals made with him. The kandarian demon is summoned through the recitation of the ancient Sumerian texts. Secondly, the timeline makes no sense. The Necronomicon went missing in 1300 A.D. and wasn't found until the early 80s when  Professor Knowby went exploring in the ancient ruins of Kandar. He then brought it to his cabin. Then it was found by Ash  where it was either destroyed (ending of The Evil Dead) or Ash has kept in in his possession this whole time (Ash vs. Evil Dead). So when would Pamela Voorhees have obtained it, and how?

Not only that, but this theory completely undoes whatever tenuous mythology Friday the 13th has already established. For example, Adam Marcus, the director, is apparently unaware that the child Jason seen at the end of Friday the 13th was a dream sequence, so Jason didn't go from child to adult in a couple of months. Also, his theory would indicate that Jason was an undead demon through the entirety of the franchise. And even though Jason has survived attacks that in real life would be impossible (hanging, axe to the head) he was mortal in parts 2 through 4. We know this because Tommy Jarvis killed him. And he stayed dead for at least ten years until Jarvis inadvertently raised him from the dead, not by reading from the Necronomicon, but through kooky Frankenstein science.

And lastly, this theory doesn't even work according to the mythology established by Marcus in "The Final Friday." Remember Creighton Duke's mythos explaining quote, "Through a Voorhees was he born... through a Voorhees may he be reborn... and only by the hands of a Voorhees will he die." Why would a deadite need to be reborn through a Voorhees and why can only a Voorhees kill him? Since when has the familial relationship mattered when dispatching the host body of the Kandarian demon?

Sorry for the lengthy diatribe here, but I've been being inundated with this bit of news for the last few days, being told that deadite Jason is canon by those who apparently don't know what "canon" means. I felt I had to make my feelings known on the subject.


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Count Zero

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Re: Jason Voorhees is an Evil Dead Deadite?
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2017, 03:39:07 PM »
i don't even consider jason goes to hell as part of the friday the 13th series.
i remember seeing it in 6th grade while having a slumber party at my cousins house (we always got to see slasher flicks over there) & thinking to myself that it had no place in the series. i tried watching it a decade later & couldn't even finish it. jason x? sure, ill take it. jason goes to hell? no way jose.
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zombiehorror

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Re: Jason Voorhees is an Evil Dead Deadite?
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2017, 08:08:41 PM »
Just a cool Easter Egg, nothing more.  And this guy has no clue about the franchise, "...now I can believe that he can go from a little boy that lives in a lake, to a full grown man in a couple of months..".  Young Jason's appearance at the end was merely a nightmare, anyone that watched the film should/would know that.

Big Bad Wolf

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Re: Jason Voorhees is an Evil Dead Deadite?
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2017, 08:42:33 PM »
It's like one of those really bad fan fictions you hear about, written by a fan whose enthusiasm does not match their skills or their knowledge of series lore. He also clearly doesn't know his own film.

The only way this theory works is if Jason actually drowned, and Marcus also seems to be implying that this drowning occurred shortly before the events of the original film, hence why Jason would have made such a jump in age.

The problem is that not only is it made clear that Jason never drowned in the first place all the way back in Part 2, but Jason Goes To Hell definitively gives Jason's birth year as 1946, and 1957 is given as the year in which he disappeared and was believed to have drowned. Early in the film a news anchor mentions it just before the scene where Creighton Duke gives his crazy interview.

I love the Evil Dead movies, and honestly, I even love Jason Goes To Hell. I know it's bad. I know it's dumb. I know it royally screws up the mythology surrounding Jason Voorhees. I love it anyway. Partly because I first saw it when I was a kid, and through the 90s that was the most recent image of Jason that I had to latch onto. I also love it partly BECAUSE it's so bad, so cheesy, so goofy, so weirdly fun in its half-baked, poorly-thought-out insanity.

None of that changes the simple fact that this is an extremely dumb theory. Not only do I reject it completely, but I can't even accept it as a canonical aspect of the very film he's talking about, the film he freaking made. The content of his own film contradicts what he says about it.
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Count_Zirock

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Re: Jason Voorhees is an Evil Dead Deadite?
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2017, 09:51:58 AM »
Quote
"She [Pamela Voorhees] makes a deal with the devil by reading from the Necronomicon to bring back her son. This is why Jason isnít Jason. Heís Jason plus The Evil Dead, and now I can believe that he can go from a little boy that lives in a lake, to a full grown man in a couple of months, to Zombie Jason, to never being able to kill this guy. That, to me, is way more interesting as a mashup, and [Sam] Raimi loved it!"


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YoungestMonsterKid

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Re: Jason Voorhees is an Evil Dead Deadite?
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2017, 01:26:03 PM »
Look, if Jason was a deadite then he should have been able to do deadite things. He never spit fire or flew or anything like that. Sure, there can be different variants of them with different abilities. But no, this just isn't right.

Jason is a revenant, a person who died and was filled with such rage that they came back from the dead. He's completely indestructible and is fueled by rage. That's a revenant.

Big Bad Wolf

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Re: Jason Voorhees is an Evil Dead Deadite?
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2017, 02:37:59 PM »
Look, if Jason was a deadite then he should have been able to do deadite things. He never spit fire or flew or anything like that. Sure, there can be different variants of them with different abilities. But no, this just isn't right.

Jason is a revenant, a person who died and was filled with such rage that they came back from the dead. He's completely indestructible and is fueled by rage. That's a revenant.
Well, he was also filled with lightning since he was technically brought back to life via the Frankenstein method (though the scene played out largely as an homage to the Hammer Dracula films, curiously enough). But yeah, you're pretty much right on. Dude's a revenant starting with Part 6. The deadite thing just does not work at all.
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Count_Zirock

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Re: Jason Voorhees is an Evil Dead Deadite?
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2017, 07:48:09 PM »
This "theory" is just patently idiotic. The guy doesn't seem to understand that Jason didn't drown, and that the Jason attacking Adrianne King in Part 1 was an hallucination/dream. Also, Jason "drowned" in 1957. The camp was closed for 20+ years. He didn't "instantly" grow up, FFS!

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Big Bad Wolf

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Re: Jason Voorhees is an Evil Dead Deadite?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2017, 09:12:15 PM »
The guy doesn't seem to understand that Jason didn't drown, and that the Jason attacking Adrianne King in Part 1 was an hallucination/dream.
I forgot to address that, but you're exactly right. He seems to think the dream sequence at the end really happened, and that somehow between the end of the first film and the beginning of the second, Jason rapidly grew into an adult somehow.

What a ridiculously dumb theory.
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YoungestMonsterKid

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Re: Jason Voorhees is an Evil Dead Deadite?
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2017, 08:33:34 PM »
One thing I still don't get is what most people consider him in 2,3, and 4. I think of him as back from the dead but no undead.
See, he did in fact die and drown but immediately afterwards came back to life as a living person with extreme strength. He still had to breath, eat, and sleep. Sort of like how I wouldn't consider Frankenstein's monster undead in the same way as a zombie.

But that's just how I kind of think of it. I know they said "Jason didn't drown" in part 2 but I think they meant that as he didn't drown like a normal person would.
(Also, it's kind of messed up that the spell checker here doesn't recognize the word "undead".)

BaronVolka

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Re: Jason Voorhees is an Evil Dead Deadite?
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2017, 10:31:52 PM »
See, I could be convinced of Pamela making a deal with some dark power to bring her boy back to her, resulting in the undead Jason. Maybe that's even what drove her over the edge from grieving mother to violent killer but I don't think it's wise to tie Jason to closely to the Evil Dead franchise.

the_last_gunslinger

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Re: Jason Voorhees is an Evil Dead Deadite?
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2017, 03:01:47 AM »
One thing I still don't get is what most people consider him in 2,3, and 4. I think of him as back from the dead but no undead.
See, he did in fact die and drown but immediately afterwards came back to life as a living person with extreme strength. He still had to breath, eat, and sleep. Sort of like how I wouldn't consider Frankenstein's monster undead in the same way as a zombie.

But that's just how I kind of think of it. I know they said "Jason didn't drown" in part 2 but I think they meant that as he didn't drown like a normal person would.
(Also, it's kind of messed up that the spell checker here doesn't recognize the word "undead".)

I think in general, people consider Jason human in parts 2, 3 and 4. The resulting confusion, I think, arises from the fact that the makers of Friday the 13th didn't originally intend to do sequels where Jason was the killer. Taking part one at face value, within it's own confined mythology, Jason drowned.

Then that movie made a lot of money and they decided to bring Jason back as the killer, but he's full grown. How is this possible if he drowned as a boy? There are two possibilities but both are fraught with plot holes. Either he came back from the grave after the events of Part One, or he didn't actually drowned and simply grew to maturity.

The first scenario is problematic because even though Jason survives attacks that would easily kill a mortal man, Jason can feel pain in parts 2-4 and in Part 4, Tommy did succeed in killing Jason and he remained dead for at least a decade. If Jason was already dead, that makes no sense.

The second scenario is problematic because if he didn't drown, what did he do after getting out of the water? Why didn't he go home, back to his mother? And even if you can explain that away somehow, are we to believe that a severely mentally impaired twelve year old, wholly dependent on his mother was able to survive on his own in the woods until grown?

I tend to think option two is more likely, and is more in line with established canon, but the franchise has never done much to clear this up.

Personally, I believe that Jason survived and DID go home, and Pamela continued to raise him, but kept him away from a cruel world that didn't understand him. All the while, she kept up the pretense that he was dead. This would explain why Jason supposedly saw his mother beheaded. If he were living with her, he would be within close proximity to the events of Part One and would know who to go after.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 03:11:57 AM by the_last_gunslinger »
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BaronVolka

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Re: Jason Voorhees is an Evil Dead Deadite?
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2017, 12:06:29 PM »
Pamela's entire motivation for going after the characters in part one is because Jason drowned. Her entire character hinges on her being a woman driven over the edge by this tragedy. If she was just pretending Jason was dead the whole time then why even bother telling Alice (?) that Jason drowned? She was going to kill her anyway, why keep up the pretense?

Either way it doesn't make sense.

I think we just need to accept that something happened during or after Jason's drowning that wasn't natural. Something brought Jason back and continues to bring Jason back and it's not backwoods first aid.

zombiehorror

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Re: Jason Voorhees is an Evil Dead Deadite?
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2017, 08:26:08 PM »
If Pamela had known Jason were alive, surely she would have kept him in better conditions than we find him in Part 2.  It could be determined that his body was never recovered and he was just presumed dead; One wouldn't think he was undead since he sought food/shelter and continued to grow.  How the hell he learned survival skills in order to maintain himself all those years is a mystery though?