Universal Monster Army

Cinematic Creeps => Modern Monster Movies => Topic started by: emazers on January 18, 2020, 05:14:19 PM

Title: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: emazers on January 18, 2020, 05:14:19 PM
https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=yfp-t&p=youtube+the+invisible+man+movie+trailer#id=1&vid=7a3a066c1f972b9bc9e95e5e0e236744&action=click
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Mord on January 19, 2020, 12:38:05 PM
I saw the trailer in the theatre yesterday. I didn't look unwatchable. It felt more Blumhouse than Universal, though.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: BigShadow on January 26, 2020, 12:40:37 AM
I've heard the director and writer wanted this movie to concentrate on the #MeToo movement and toxic masculinity in the guise of a horror movie.  I know such topics have been touched upon before, but it seems like movies in the last few years have concentrated more on social justice and virtue signaling rather than a good story.  Unfortunately this seems like the case here.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Mord on February 29, 2020, 10:33:49 PM
I saw the trailer in the theatre yesterday. I didn't look unwatchable. It felt more Blumhouse than Universal, though.

Ok, I take it back. It was very good.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: BigShadow on March 01, 2020, 04:15:32 AM
Was this a good film or not?  I'm still on the fence about seeing it.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Mord on March 01, 2020, 10:40:00 AM
Was this a good film or not?  I'm still on the fence about seeing it.

The reviews have been good, and two UMAers (myself included) have posted that they liked it.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Radioactive Rod Whitenack on March 01, 2020, 02:36:26 PM
A major flop? It opened to 90% good reviews on Rotten Tomatoes to make a $29 million weekend on a $7 million budget. I saw it last night and it's pretty darn good. In my opinion, this is a much better example of how to modernize classic monsters and science fiction than the concept of spending $150 on a big, GCI heavy Blockbuster like "The Mummy" or "Van Helsing" which has no chance of even being a "horror" film, but only an action spectacle.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Mord on March 01, 2020, 02:51:33 PM
A major flop? It opened to 90% good reviews on Rotten Tomatoes to make a $29 million weekend on a $7 million budget. I saw it last night and it's pretty darn good. In my opinion, this is a much better example of how to modernize classic monsters and science fiction than the concept of spending $150 on a big, GCI heavy Blockbuster like "The Mummy" or "Van Helsing" which has no chance of even being a "horror" film, but only an action spectacle.

Well stated, ye wise one. It was an excellent update. Not everybody will be pleased, but it was VERY entertaining. I would support more Universal "re-imaginings" like this. I think Blumhouse does a great job with a relatively low budget.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Mike Scott on March 01, 2020, 03:06:04 PM
It opened to 90% good reviews on Rotten Tomatoes to make a $29 million weekend on a $7 million budget.

What? There TV ad budget is bigger than that!
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: the_last_gunslinger on March 01, 2020, 03:57:52 PM
Quote
've heard the director and writer wanted this movie to concentrate on the #MeToo movement and toxic masculinity in the guise of a horror movie.  I know such topics have been touched upon before, but it seems like movies in the last few years have concentrated more on social justice and virtue signaling rather than a good story.  Unfortunately this seems like the case here

I'm one of the most vocal critics of filmmakers who make movies that serve primarily as a vehicle to deliver their socio-political message. I was concerned a little about the Invisible Man going down this route. I saw the movie last night and am pleased to report that I didn't get that vibe at all. Sure, there was an evil man as the antagonist, and the victim was a woman, but that's about as far as it went.

All men were not depicted as evil. In fact, the protagonists strongest ally was a man who was supportive of her without being patronizing. And sure, he didn't believe her story about an invisible stalker, but no one did. There were no out of place "girl power" moments that took me out of the story, and Elisabeth Moss's portrayal as an abused wife was both believable and sympathetic.

I can't say whether or not you'd like the movie, but I wouldn't let fears of an overt social message keep you from watching it, because I don't think that's what they did.


Quote
The reviews have been good, and two UMAers (myself included) have posted that they liked it.

I will add my voice to the chorus of those who appreciated it. I thought it was good, better than expected. For those who like to ogle iconic monster images, it might prove disappointing, but I'd give it a solid 6.5/10.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Gory Glenn on March 02, 2020, 12:06:14 PM
Saw it yesterday. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Best reboot of a Universal monster movie hands down.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Mike Scott on March 02, 2020, 03:46:20 PM
Best reboot of a Universal monster movie hands down.

Why call it a "reboot"? It has nothing to do with Wells, or Whale. You don't call every vampire movie a reboot of "Dracula."
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Gory Glenn on March 02, 2020, 04:03:42 PM
Why call it a "reboot"? It has nothing to do with Wells, or Whale. You don't call every vampire movie a reboot of "Dracula."

Unlike other vampire movies this has the exact same title as the original and it is a Universal picture. How about re-imagining? The article below makes some good points regarding the new versus old (possible spoilers).

https://screenrant.com/invisible-man-2020-original-movie-changes/
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Mord on March 02, 2020, 04:27:15 PM
 All I really care about, is that it's actually good (for a change). They keep the Griffin name, even though the first name is changed to Adrian.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Mike Scott on March 02, 2020, 05:42:06 PM
How about re-imagining?

Oh, all right!  ;D
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Rex fury on March 02, 2020, 07:13:38 PM
I saw it today and really liked it. Adding the domestic violence angle made it a more intense viewing experience for me. Like The Shape of Water, it brought the “monster” into a new era without  disrespecting what came before and without trying to be yet another superhero movie. I understand Universal is still looking at a Bride of Frankenstein film. I hope they take cues from the audience reaction to both Shape and Invisible Man.
RF
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Sir Masksalot on March 02, 2020, 10:46:50 PM
I saw it over the weekend. It was grim and scary (my wife was freaking out) but very well crafted. I couldn't help but imagine all the other things
Griffin should've been doing while invisible. Now if it were me ....
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: John Pertwee on March 08, 2020, 08:03:27 PM
We went to see it last night and I really liked it. I thought I had it all figured out but they did a great job tricking me into thinking A when it turned out to be B and C.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Joseph_Baeza on March 08, 2020, 10:08:19 PM
All I can say is that The Invisible Man is Citizen Kane next to the Tom Cruise Mummy film.  Thank you, Blumhouse.  They understand that if you put together a decent plot and cast some high quality character actors, you can make a solid low-budget thriller that makes a ton of money without all the CGI nonsense. Universal mastered this concept in the 1930’s.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Haunted hearse on March 13, 2020, 06:57:45 PM
I saw it in the theater yesterday, and I really enjoyed it. It did some very inventive twists on the character, and those he victimized.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Lunkenstein on March 19, 2020, 01:44:36 PM
I will definitely watch this when it becomes on-demand.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: aura of foreboding on March 21, 2020, 12:58:31 AM
Watched it tonight in the comfort and safety of my own home through the Fandango app. 

Holy cow.  I hate to say it, but I TOLD YOU this was going to be good.  And it was excellent.  Such a phenomenal film with a phenomenal cast.  This is how you make a movie in 2020.  Really, really well done.  The Invisible Man, himself, was terrifying on several levels -- a good monster movie in a new vein.  Could they do this will all of the Universal Monsters?  I don't think so.  You have to maintain iconography for Frankenstein, Dracula, Creature, and Wolf Man.  But The Invisible Man doesn't need it to work.  I fear the new Dracula project set in the present, because Dracula needs his cape and medallion and ring, so it worries me, but it worked for The Invisible Man.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Mord on March 21, 2020, 12:53:41 PM
 I saw it in the theater, when it came out. I feel the same way. Universal was wise to team up with Blumhouse.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: zombiehorror on March 21, 2020, 11:41:31 PM
It was just ok.  First of all it was a decent movie but it wasn't The Invisible Man.  Definitely didn't have anything to do with any plot point (besides obviously a man being invisible) from either the novel or movie.  I feel the film would have actually been better served by not giving away the whole invisibility angle in the title; for most of the story it could have been played out as a vengeful spirit until the big reveal.  The script also had some very pedestrian writing, things that were a little to convenient to push the story along.  This type of script could definitely work for any of the other Universal Monsters if all you need is the basic concept; man creates being from cadavers, a vampire, a werewolf, a resurrected mummy, a creature from a body of water...etc...etc.........just throw the "famous monster" name on it as the title.

Had to add, in the end I call the version The Invisible Meh.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: geezer butler on March 23, 2020, 10:18:47 PM
I watched it the other night and really like it. I have to say I was cynical at first, basically because I didn't like Leigh Whannell's attitude. Every interview I read he went out of his way to say (and I'm paraphrasing) "I want to stay away from the guy with bandages and floating teacup" type of thing. Another interview in Scream magazine, he said "I was not interested in doing a Penny Dreadful version with top hats and long trench coats (laughing)."

I'm probably oversensitive but I thought "what's so funny about that?" I like old school Gothic horror. They're not common anymore, but every few years we see some good stuff: Bram Stoker's Dracula (1992), Sleepy Hollow (1999), From Hell (2001), The Wolfman (2010), Crimson Peak (2015), Penny Dreadful (2014-2016). So again, I don't see what's so funny.

Anyhow, I'm over it because I have to admit, at least in this case, Whannell's instincts were spot on. I def like the modern approach. For example, and maybe I'm projecting my own politics, but I like how the techbro douche bag and slimy lawyer are the villains.  And I actually like that the film de-emphasized the science of invisibility, and instead focused on the terror an invisible man could cause.
 
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: BigShadow on June 15, 2020, 08:00:25 AM
I've heard many mixed reviews on the movie with most leaning toward the "negative" side.  I don't think I'll be giving it a chance just like the new Mummy movie.  These remakes, or whatever you want to call them, just don't appeal to me.  Each writer tries to put their own spin on a character and mythos, and 9 times out of 10 it ruins the movie...for me anyway.  The only "remake" I enjoyed was Dracula Untold (2014).  It wasn't a bad movie, but it wasn't good either...just a popcorn flick.  But I'm partial to Vampire movies, so I have a little bias.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: geezer butler on June 15, 2020, 06:34:35 PM
Like I said, I was skeptical, but I ending up liking it a lot. Very suspenseful imo. In this case I like the original take on classic character. The one thing I would say, and others here have pointed this out too, is  there's no connection to the source material. It's really an "Invisible Man" movie in name only. No connections that I'm aware of to either the HG Wells novel or the Universal classic film. I like Dracula Untold as well, but I guess that doesn't really connect to the novel or 1931 film either.

IDK. I understand why old school fans don't like these remakes and reboots, but I guess I like the idea of keeping these characters circulating in the public consciousness. And I can tell you young people are unlikely to watch 1930s black and white films on their own. By introducing these new versions to younger audiences, hopefully that inspires some people to look up the original versions.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: YoungestMonsterKid on September 25, 2020, 06:10:15 PM
I've heard the director and writer wanted this movie to concentrate on the #MeToo movement and toxic masculinity in the guise of a horror movie.  I know such topics have been touched upon before, but it seems like movies in the last few years have concentrated more on social justice and virtue signaling rather than a good story.  Unfortunately this seems like the case here.
Good thing all the old stories never had any social commentary.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: the_last_gunslinger on September 26, 2020, 07:49:07 PM
Good thing all the old stories never had any social commentary.

Social commentary ruins horror movies.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: geezer butler on September 28, 2020, 09:01:47 PM
Social commentary ruins horror movies.

I respectfully disagree. In fact, I argue some of the best horror and sci-fi films are rich in political and social commentary: Night of the Living Dead, Dawn of the Dead, Land of the Dead, Rosemary's Baby, American Psycho, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, Gojira, Get Out, V for Vendetta, 1984, Candyman, The Purge, They Live, Videodrome, The Texas Chain Saw Massacre, The Shining .  .  .

I would say some of the best films in general are rich in political and social commentary: 12 Angry Men, How to Kill a Mockingbird, Philadelphia, Thelma and Louise, Selma, Fight Club, Do the Right Thing, The Battle of Algiers, Dr. Strangelove, Grapes of Wrath, Boys n the Hood, the East . . .

If I may be so bold, is it possible this is more about not liking the ideological content of said "social commentary," than a universal dislike of films with social commentary?
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: the_last_gunslinger on September 30, 2020, 08:28:41 PM
Quote
If I may be so bold, is it possible this is more about not liking the ideological content of said "social commentary," than a universal dislike of films with social commentary?

That's part of it, absolutely. I'm not going to lie about it. My ideals, values and worldview is often at odds with the majority of filmmakers, and I'm not often appreciative of a movie director trying to sway my opinion on a serious topic when I'm just interested in being entertained.

More than that, though, I'm speaking to my personal philosophy regarding the role that stories should play in society. Among the most important is to tell a good story. Movies...especially those of the speculative and weird fiction...provide an escape hatch for the banality of real life. For a couple of hours, I like to step away from the real world and all its headaches and immerse myself in the fantastical and mysterious.

To me, movies are a sort of self-imposed quarantine from the cares and troubles of the world. Allowing real-world problems into my personal quarantine zone is self defeating.

Quote
I respectfully disagree. In fact, I argue some of the best horror and sci-fi films are rich in political and social commentary: Night of the Living Dead, Dawn of the Dead, Land of the Dead, Rosemary's Baby, American Psycho, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, Gojira, Get Out, V for Vendetta, 1984, Candyman, The Purge, They Live, Videodrome, The Texas Chain Saw Massacre, The Shining .  .  .

You raise a valid point here. Many of these films contain social commentary and are viewed as pioneering entries in the horror genre. So perhaps I spoke too broadly at first. In these films, the commentary was seamlessly woven into the narrative. So much so that I probably couldn't tell you what the commentary is in most of those movies because I actively try to tune my mind off such concerns. So for those who appreciate social commentary, they get an added layer to their favorite films. For people like me, I can dismiss the commentary for a movie like Night of the Living Dead and enjoy it for what it is, a story about survival during a zombie outbreak.

I'm more concerned with modern filmmaking trends where it seems that the message comes before the story, and for whom subtlety is an unknown art. That's how you end up with movies like the Black Christmas remake where the antagonist is literally toxic masculinity seeping out of a statue in a frat house. The original Black Christmas dealt with feminists themes too, but it never got in the way of the story.

That's all I was trying to say.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: geezer butler on September 30, 2020, 09:40:33 PM
That's part of it, absolutely. I'm not going to lie about it. My ideals, values and worldview is often at odds with the majority of filmmakers, and I'm not often appreciative of a movie director trying to sway my opinion on a serious topic when I'm just interested in being entertained.

More than that, though, I'm speaking to my personal philosophy regarding the role that stories should play in society. Among the most important is to tell a good story. Movies...especially those of the speculative and weird fiction...provide an escape hatch for the banality of real life. For a couple of hours, I like to step away from the real world and all its headaches and immerse myself in the fantastical and mysterious.

To me, movies are a sort of self-imposed quarantine from the cares and troubles of the world. Allowing real-world problems into my personal quarantine zone is self defeating.

You raise a valid point here. Many of these films contain social commentary and are viewed as pioneering entries in the horror genre. So perhaps I spoke too broadly at first. In these films, the commentary was seamlessly woven into the narrative. So much so that I probably couldn't tell you what the commentary is in most of those movies because I actively try to tune my mind off such concerns. So for those who appreciate social commentary, they get an added layer to their favorite films. For people like me, I can dismiss the commentary for a movie like Night of the Living Dead and enjoy it for what it is, a story about survival during a zombie outbreak.

I'm more concerned with modern filmmaking trends where it seems that the message comes before the story, and for whom subtlety is an unknown art. That's how you end up with movies like the Black Christmas remake where the antagonist is literally toxic masculinity seeping out of a statue in a frat house. The original Black Christmas dealt with feminists themes too, but it never got in the way of the story.

That's all I was trying to say.

Well said Gunslinger. Very good points.  Overall I agree, regardless of one's politics, it is annoying when a filmmaker, especially in the sci-fi and horror genres has an agenda first and foremost, then says "let me come up with some half-ass story to justify this." I can't argue with you there. Anyhow, I appreciate your feedback.

Cheers,
GB
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: TheMadScientist on October 01, 2020, 09:31:41 PM
Watched it today because they added it to HBO's streaming service. I thought it was ok. I didn't regret watching it, but I don't think it lived up to a lot of the hype I heard going in. I will say that it's The Invisible Man in name only, and if they are going to do remakes of other Universal Monsters, I hope they don't "re-imagine" things quite as much as they did here.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Mord on October 11, 2020, 04:03:17 PM
 I really liked it when I saw it in the theater. Social commentary is just fine with me (in movies, songs, and t.v.). I think the only ones that are butt-hurt are the people who don't agree with the particular point of view. If it presented THEIR mindset, they wouldn't whine. Definitely not for the stale hillbilly types.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Monsters For Sale on January 01, 2021, 07:53:46 PM
It was OK, for what it was.

I think it suffered from its title.  Instead of bringing in appreciated fans of the previous Invisible Man movies, it saddled it with unfair expectations which it never delivered.

I believe it would have been a more successful film with a more generic title.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Mike Scott on January 01, 2021, 10:23:18 PM
I believe it would have been a more successful film with a more generic title.

Like "Hey, Buddy, Watch Where You're Going! Where'd He Go?"
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Monsters For Sale on January 01, 2021, 11:05:35 PM
Like "Hey, Buddy, Watch Where You're Going! Where'd He Go?" 

Yeah.  Exactly like that.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: aura of foreboding on January 01, 2021, 11:28:23 PM


I believe it would have been a more successful film with a more generic title.

More generic...  Hmmm.. The Invisible Man...  Let's see...  Ah!  How about:  The Man
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Mike Scott on January 02, 2021, 12:00:00 AM
How about:  The Man.

To specific. We already know, going in, it's about a man.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Hepcat on January 02, 2021, 11:39:10 AM
I respectfully disagree. In fact, I argue some of the best horror and sci-fi films are rich in political and social commentary: Night of the Living Dead, Dawn of the Dead, Land of the Dead, Rosemary's Baby, American Psycho, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, Gojira, Get Out, V for Vendetta, 1984, Candyman, The Purge, They Live, Videodrome, The Texas Chain Saw Massacre, The Shining .  .  .

I would say some of the best films in general are rich in political and social commentary: 12 Angry Men, How to Kill a Mockingbird, Philadelphia, Thelma and Louise, Selma, Fight Club, Do the Right Thing, The Battle of Algiers, Dr. Strangelove, Grapes of Wrath, Boys n the Hood, the East . . .

Oh come on! You have to be positively determined to see social commentary in most of those flicks.

If I may be so bold, is it possible this is more about not liking the ideological content of said "social commentary," than a universal dislike of films with social commentary?

Can you name (m)any examples of "social commentary" in any Hollywood or similar studio flicks with "social commentary" that doesn't have a leftist slant? Films touted for their "social commentary" don't typically celebrate individualism, now do they?

 ???
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Hepcat on January 02, 2021, 11:45:02 AM
Social commentary is just fine with me (in movies, songs, and t.v.).

Only the kind with which you agree.

I think the only ones that are butt-hurt are the people who don't agree with the particular point of view. If it presented THEIR mindset, they wouldn't whine.

Like I say, how many flicks with "social commentary" do we get celebrating the other side?

Definitely not for the stale hillbilly types.

"Stale hillbilly types? Who the hell are they? Anybody who doesn't like socialists?

 ::)
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Monsters For Sale on January 02, 2021, 01:06:10 PM
...  "Stale hillbilly types? Who the hell are they? Anybody who doesn't like socialists?

The ones who have to ask.

Buttermilk and Limburger are not stale; they were created that way.  Not all hillbillies live in the mountains and are named William.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Hepcat on January 02, 2021, 02:41:14 PM
The ones who have to ask.

Ask and you might learn. I've never been among those too shy to ask. You?

Why was the term introduced to this subject anyway? I see no reason other than to denigrate a certain group of people.

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g434/Balticprince/L'il_Abner.gif?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)

 >:(



Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Monsters For Sale on January 02, 2021, 03:15:06 PM
Ask and you might learn. I've never been among those too shy to ask. You?

Why was the term introduced to this subject anyway? I see no reason other than to denigrate a certain group of people.

I just do 'em.  I don't explain 'em.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Monsters For Sale on January 02, 2021, 03:24:39 PM
Good thing all the old stories never had any social commentary. 

Of course they did.  It was usually men meddling in things that should be reserved to god and getting their comeuppance - or some such nonsense.

You know, the "If men were meant to fly, they would have been born with wings" crowd.  The ones who know the earth is flat because their plumb bob proves that everywhere is level.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Hepcat on January 02, 2021, 05:23:34 PM
Of course they did.  It was usually men meddling in things that should be reserved to god and getting their comeuppance - or some such nonsense.

And which of those movies has been extolled for social commentary? Angry Red Planet? Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein? Attack of the 50 Foot Woman? None I think. Because they just made the movies. They didn't try to explain them. They were content to just count the box office receipts.

 ;)
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: aura of foreboding on January 03, 2021, 06:55:01 PM
Frankenstein has indeed been extolled for its social commentary, much like how The Twilight Zone has.  Social commentary has always been part of the genre, almost at the heart of it.  You just didn't have people analyzing everything back then.  You just had people accept it for what it was, taking away their own interpretations.  I really think if there were FEWER opinions being broadcast about films and what they mean, MORE people would like them.  I really enjoyed The Invisible Man.  I heard the commentary, but didn't pay much mind to it, and I really enjoyed the film.  The film had commentary, yes, but it wasn't what made or broke the film, much how it wasn't what made or broke Frankenstein.  I bet if we didn't have the Internet, people would really just be happier about things that are meant to make people happy... like movies.   
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Hepcat on January 03, 2021, 10:51:13 PM
You raise a valid point here. Many of these films contain social commentary and are viewed as pioneering entries in the horror genre. So perhaps I spoke too broadly at first. In these films, the commentary was seamlessly woven into the narrative. So much so that I probably couldn't tell you what the commentary is in most of those movies because I actively try to tune my mind off such concerns. So for those who appreciate social commentary, they get an added layer to their favorite films. For people like me, I can dismiss the commentary for a movie like Night of the Living Dead and enjoy it for what it is, a story about survival during a zombie outbreak.

I'm more concerned with modern filmmaking trends where it seems that the message comes before the story, and for whom subtlety is an unknown art. That's how you end up with movies like the Black Christmas remake where the antagonist is literally toxic masculinity seeping out of a statue in a frat house. The original Black Christmas dealt with feminists themes too, but it never got in the way of the story.

Overall I agree, regardless of one's politics, it is annoying when a filmmaker, especially in the sci-fi and horror genres has an agenda first and foremost, then says "let me come up with some half-ass story to justify this."

I agree. A movie shouldn't be made with a view to making some certain extraneous point. Any point should be ancillary to the making of a good flick.

Clint Eastwood's movies are great examples of the latter. I suppose you can find some sociopolitical point in them if you're absolutely determined to do so. But why bother? They're just good fun flicks for the most part.

I really think if there were FEWER opinions being broadcast about films and what they mean, MORE people would like them.

Movies are just like novels in that way. Novels (including plays) aren't meant to be studied/analyzed. They're meant to be read and enjoyed. Nothing sucks the joy out of reading a book more than that book being dissected as part of the assigned readings of an English Literature class. 

 cl:)
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Monsters For Sale on January 04, 2021, 01:58:36 AM
... A movie shouldn't be made with a view to making some certain extraneous point. Any point should be ancillary to the making of a good flick....

... Novels (including plays) aren't meant to be studied/analyzed. They're meant to be read and enjoyed. Nothing sucks the joy out of reading a book more than that book being dissected as part of the assigned readings of an English Literature class. 


So, no author, producer, director or performer should have or express any point of reference or opinion  -  or just not have the kind that disagrees with anyone's political or religious bent?

We've had the likes of Will Hays, Joseph Breen and Joseph McCarthy helpfully guiding the "arts" in staying in lock-step with the au courant thinking.  In the long run, they failed.

Creators of such content persist in espousing their own philosophies, even if unintentionally.  Readers, listeners and viewers will continue to study and analyze what they consume.

And people who insist on dictating what the arts "should" contain will forever bemoan content that disagrees with their personal opinions - whatever side they believe they represent.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Mike Scott on January 04, 2021, 02:44:06 AM
We've had the likes of Arthur Hays

Will Hays. And you forget the "Catholic League of Decency" (or however that goes).  ;D
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Monsters For Sale on January 04, 2021, 02:57:50 AM
Will Hays. And you forget the "Catholic League of Decency" (or however that goes).  ;D

I knew that.  How do you suppose  I made that mistake?  My fault for not researching before typing.

No, I didn't forget the Catholic lists of movies/books, etc. that didn't pass their approval.  I was going for broader social condemnation.  For all its influence, the Vatican spoke for a single religion.

Besides, being on their list guaranteed a bigger audience - even containing of many of their members.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Mike Scott on January 04, 2021, 03:57:00 AM
No, I didn't forget the Catholic lists of movies/books, etc.

"Forget" was the wrong word. Should have been "didn't include".
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: geezer butler on January 04, 2021, 04:01:42 AM

So, no author, producer, director or performer should have or express any point of reference or opinion  -  or just not have the kind that disagrees with anyone's political or religious bent?

We've had the likes of Will Hays, Joseph Breen and Joseph McCarthy helpfully guiding the "arts" in staying in lock-step with the au courant thinking.  In the long run, they failed.

Creators of such content persist in espousing their own philosophies, even if unintentionally.  Readers, listeners and viewers will continue to study and analyze what they consume.

And people who insist on dictating what the arts "should" contain will forever bemoan content that disagrees with their personal opinions - whatever side they believe they represent.

Excellent reply MFS! Great points my good sir.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Hepcat on January 05, 2021, 07:51:55 PM
So, no author, producer, director or performer should have or express any point of reference or opinion  -  or just not have the kind that disagrees with anyone's political or religious bent?

Well of course these performers can express some point of view. I'm not recommending government censorship. Heaven forbid. (I'm a Libertarian. I think governments should do as little as possible.) But political points of view shouldn't be intrusive since such intrusiveness is detrimental to the entertainment value of the flick. And entertainment is what movies are all about.

Moreover if the underlying message is too pointed/ham fisted, the director/artist is going to annoy/alienate a large section of potential paying customers. This is simply not smart since there's a good correlation between broad market appeal and box office receipts.

And people who insist on dictating what the arts "should" contain will forever bemoan content that disagrees with their personal opinions - whatever side they believe they represent.

Yeah but I'm not interested in dictating. I just don't like being dictated to/preached at when my interest is in being entertained. Yeah, yeah, I know, I don't have to go. That just goes to prove my previous point though, doesn't it?

Excellent reply MFS! Great points my good sir.

I disagree. I think it was lousy because it doesn't address whether a point of view adds to or detracts from the entertainment value of a movie.

And the name dropping of the three was simple obfuscation. Like I say, the only dictating I do is telling movie makers to provide me with entertainment value for my buck, and that they better not annoy me or they can kiss my bucks goodbye. That as always is the bottom line.

(And my injunction against non-annoyance absolutely applies to advertising as well. Annoy me with a commercial and I'll remember for decades, e.g. Crest toothpaste, Michelin tires, etc.)

 cl:)
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Monsters For Sale on January 05, 2021, 08:04:20 PM
I'm a Libertarian.

I do not think it means what you think it means.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Hepcat on January 05, 2021, 08:13:36 PM
Libertarians believe that every individual should be free to do as he alone sees fit so long as he refrains from initiating force against any other individual. Libertarians therefore believe that the only proper function of governments is to protect individuals from the initiation of force. Ergo "that government governs best that governs least."

 :)



Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Monsters For Sale on January 05, 2021, 09:09:49 PM
Libertarians believe that every individual should be free to do as he alone sees fit so long as he refrains from initiating force against any other individual. Libertarians therefore believe that the only proper function of governments is to protect individuals from the initiation of force. Ergo "that government governs best that governs least." 

I do not think you believe what you think you believe.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Hepcat on January 05, 2021, 10:11:45 PM
Well since we're not allowed political discourse anyway, we don't need to discuss the virtues versus the shortcomings of gradualism. It's easy enough to apply libertarian principles to almost any issue though. Admittedly there are a few really thorny ones, e.g. abortion and capital punishment, which we're absolutely not going to discuss though.

With respect to social commentary in films though, all I mean when I say directors should steer clear is that it's not a wise strategy when it comes to inducing as many people as possible to part with their dollars.

 cl:)
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Mike Scott on January 06, 2021, 01:02:02 AM
With respect to social commentary in films though, all I mean when I say directors should steer clear is that it's not a wise strategy when it comes to inducing as many people as possible to part with their dollars.

You know what they say, money isn't everything!
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Mord on January 20, 2021, 09:36:27 PM
You know what they say, money isn't everything!

To libertarians, it usually is. Wallets above everything.
Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Hepcat on January 20, 2021, 10:16:23 PM
We also don't like "values" imposed on us from above. If some of us decide on money, MPC Pop-Top Horrors or whatever else, we're opposed to Big Brother mandating that we live our lives otherwise.

 cl:)

Title: Re: Movie Trailer For Universal's "The Invisible Man" Will Be a Major Flop
Post by: Hepcat on January 24, 2021, 11:49:22 AM
Movies are just like novels in that way. Novels (including plays) aren't meant to be studied/analyzed. They're meant to be read and enjoyed. Nothing sucks the joy out of reading a book more than that book being dissected as part of the assigned readings of an English Literature class.

I agree with Toronto film auteur Reg Hartt on the subject:

Quote from: Reg Hartt
When people come out and pay their money to see a film, they’ve come to be astonished, and when you’re in a classroom, you’re not sitting there to be astonished. It’s a whole attitude of superiority to what you’re seeing.… Something happens with a movie that’s more than 10 years old. When a movie’s more than 10 years old people expect it to be much more serious than a contemporary film. Usually, students especially miss the mark on them, largely the fault of their teachers, who bring a great weight to this work that was never there in the first place.

Reg Hartt's Cineforum - Torontoist (https://torontoist.com/2016/06/reg-hartt-cineforum-closes-again-2016/)

 :)