Universal Monster Army

Collecting Monsters => Memorable Memorabilia => Topic started by: BlackLagoon on February 11, 2012, 02:31:06 PM

Title: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: BlackLagoon on February 11, 2012, 02:31:06 PM
I usually don't post stuff like this, especially since I haven't posted in awhile but being that Marvel Comics, an old Ghost Rider comic to be exact was my gateway to heroes, monsters, sci-fi, collecting and I've been working on my own indie comic book, this just hit home and disgusted me beyond belief. I don't know when I think Marvel or Universal for that matter I like to think "magical"--this is not very cool.


http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2012/02/steve-niles-starts-donation-campaign-for-gary-friedrich/ (http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2012/02/steve-niles-starts-donation-campaign-for-gary-friedrich/)


http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/02/09/marvel-demands-for-gary-friedrichs-ghost-rider-prints/ (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/02/09/marvel-demands-for-gary-friedrichs-ghost-rider-prints/)

http://www.facebook.com/SupportGaryFriedrich?sk=app_206541889369118 (http://www.facebook.com/SupportGaryFriedrich?sk=app_206541889369118)

The last link I swiped from Erik Larsen's FB page. Erik is the creator of Image Comics: Savage Dragon and was the artist of The Amazing Spider Man in the late 80's and early 90's....alot of guys, including Comics From The Monsterverse are pushing this.

Anyway, being that the 1st Ghost Rider movie was a watered down campy version of classic character I had almost no intrest in the sequel. After this, you couldn't pay me to see it. I'm also done with the few Marvel monthlys I've been reading.

I really hope it wasn't like this when Stan Lee was at the helm.
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: BlackLagoon on February 11, 2012, 03:27:27 PM
EDIT: Totally did not mean to post this in the Games section...sorry!
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: The Creeper on February 12, 2012, 04:02:40 AM
That is so much bull crap!  Like Marvel needs the money and he should get something for his creation!
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: seed_murda on February 12, 2012, 10:56:04 AM
Yea thats kinda disgusting right there, didnt hear about it. Total B.S. I have been kind of weary of Marvel ever since they got bought by Disney. Not a fan of Disney at all. On another note about the movie, I dont know why they picked  Cage to be Ghost Rider. I mean really ???? All the actors out there and they couldnt find someone who would fit the bill a hundred times better.
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: bigbud on February 12, 2012, 11:55:34 AM
I'm boycotting Marvel too! Ever since they raised their comic prices from 12 cents!    Buddy
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: BlackLagoon on February 12, 2012, 07:01:53 PM
lol you mustve started the boycott a few decades early.
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Hepcat on February 15, 2012, 12:08:37 PM
I'm boycotting Marvel too! Ever since they raised their comic prices from 12 cents!    Buddy

I'm with Bigbud!

 ;)
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Illoman on February 15, 2012, 01:01:52 PM
You know, as an artist I am totally on Gary's side here, but if Marvel should give him something it would set a precedent for more lawsuits. The sad fact is, to get work back then you had to sign the work for hire contract. Neal Adams fought vigorously against it, but if you had a family and wanted to work to support them, you signed it. The bad thing about it is whichever characters you created while under that contract are owned by Marvel: i.e. you've given them total rights to it. Morally Marvel should give at least something to these folks whose creativity made thousands of dollars for them, but legally they are under no obligation to do so.
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: zombiehorror on February 15, 2012, 01:12:48 PM
Get Bela Jr. on it!!
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Count_Zirock on February 16, 2012, 04:56:18 AM
Except for the complete run of "Star Wars" (1977-85), I've boycotted Marvel my whole life! I was a DC Comics and Warren Publishing kid.
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: TypH on February 16, 2012, 07:24:51 PM
it's all because of Disney, they love to sue everyone and anyone, Marvel is now owned by Disney so now they are going to try making even more money...greedy bastards hope this back fires on them in a big way.
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: jimm on February 17, 2012, 12:35:01 AM
Bad form Marvel...like they care
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Hepcat on February 17, 2012, 10:02:46 AM
Not that I sympathize with Marvel, but I find it tough to sympathize with Gary Friedrich either.  It was Gary who initiated the suit and that in my book is key. He did it simply because he saw the big money Marvel was getting from the "Ghost Rider" movie and he wanted a piece of the action. So he decided to play poker and went all in. But guess what? You can lose when you play poker too. And there should be a very real downside to suing. If a plaintiff sues for big money, there should also be a very real risk of financial loss for that plaintiff as well.

 :-\
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Gillfan on February 17, 2012, 05:01:49 PM
I’m sorry but I have to side with Marvel on this.
So many of us bemoan the fact that it is hard to get Lugosi Dracula product because of the licensing issues, yet here we are wanting to add another layer of complexity to Ghost Rider.
Imagine if every time someone wanted to make a Universal style Frankenstein they had to talk to Universal and Jack Pierce’s estate. We’d see a lot less Frankenstein.
That said, I do think the situation could have been handled better. While Marvel could not just give him money without there being ramifications, they could have brought him on as a consultant with few duties and a decent salary. Send him on tour to promote GhostRider. It would have been win/ win.
With all that said, if anyone hears of a fund being set up to  help pay his bills, please post the info, I’d love to give.
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Creature Features on February 18, 2012, 05:26:58 AM
Im sorry but I have to side with Marvel on this.
So many of us bemoan the fact that it is hard to get Lugosi Dracula product because of the licensing issues, yet here we are wanting to add another layer of complexity to Ghost Rider.
Imagine if every time someone wanted to make a Universal style Frankenstein they had to talk to Universal and Jack Pierces estate. Wed see a lot less Frankenstein.
That said, I do think the situation could have been handled better. While Marvel could not just give him money without there being ramifications, they could have brought him on as a consultant with few duties and a decent salary. Send him on tour to promote GhostRider. It would have been win/ win.
With all that said, if anyone hears of a fund being set up to  help pay his bills, please post the info, Id love to give.

Why would Marvel need to send ANYONE out to promote a film that is not theirs? Ghost Rider movie rights belong to Sony Pictures, not Marvel/Disney.
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Gillfan on February 18, 2012, 06:43:43 AM
Why would Marvel need to send ANYONE out to promote a film that is not theirs? Ghost Rider movie rights belong to Sony Pictures, not Marvel/Disney.

Marvel would benefit from renewed interest in Ghost Rider. Even if they did not specifically promote the film, doing a Ghost Rider promotion around the time of the film release would benefit them.
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Scary Terry on February 18, 2012, 12:00:45 PM
Sigh.... the comics industry has treated its talent like crap for pretty much its entire history.  Marvel has made big money off of the Ghost Rider movie and merchandise, while the character's creator gets stiffed.  So he tries to claim some of what should rightfully be his -- and gets slammed by the courts, ending up owing Marvel.  There's what the law says is right -- and then there's what's right.  And this isn't right.  Blaming Gary for the negative outcome of trying to stand up to an industry that has systematically taken advantage of its talent (and a court system that tends to favor corporations over individuals) is essentially blaming the victim. 

It wouldn't have hurt Marvel one iota to have cut Gary a sizeable royalty check on the movie sale and merchandise sales -- DC does that all the time -- my pal Graham Nolan gets a nice check for the use of Bane in the upcoming Batman movie, for example.  Original GR artist Mike Ploog deserves a check, too -- though even the credits in the first GR comic story reflect the fact that this is Gary's creation.

Yes, Marvel already owned the trademark on the NAME -- having published the Western comic with the same title -- a title Marvel scavenged when the trademark on the original Magazine Enterprises Ghost Rider comics series ran out.  Same thing they did with the Capt. Marvel trademark.  But the concept and character of the modern day GR came from Gary -- and if Marvel would have done right by him in the first place, there would likely not have been a lawsuit.

Anyone who would like to donate a few bucks to help Gary pay off the $17K judgement against him can do so here at Steve Niles' website: http://www.steveniles.com/gary.html (http://www.steveniles.com/gary.html).
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Creature Features on February 18, 2012, 03:35:50 PM
Marvel would benefit from renewed interest in Ghost Rider. Even if they did not specifically promote the film, doing a Ghost Rider promotion around the time of the film release would benefit them.

Not really. They've been trying to relaunch the comic for years now, but it keeps failing.  And the last movie did NOTHING to increase sales, or even keep the book afloat. Sad to say, but their money is probably better spent elsewhere.
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Moonshadow on February 19, 2012, 12:14:15 PM
It's very sad situation. I think Marvel is being both petty and vindictive, yet it's not totally black and white. I think there's still some debate over who really created the character and certainly Ploog and Thomas have some justified claims as well. My blogging partner and I had a discussion of this last week that garnered a lot of well-thought out responses. You can read it here: http://bronzeagebabies.blogspot.com/2012/02/gary-friedrich-situation-of-corporate.html (http://bronzeagebabies.blogspot.com/2012/02/gary-friedrich-situation-of-corporate.html)
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Illoman on February 19, 2012, 12:22:23 PM
It's very sad situation. I think Marvel is being both petty and vindictive, yet it's not totally black and white. I think there's still some debate over who really created the character and certainly Ploog and Thomas have some justified claims as well. My blogging partner and I had a discussion of this last week that garnered a lot of well-thought out responses. You can read it here: [url]http://bronzeagebabies.blogspot.com/2012/02/gary-friedrich-situation-of-corporate.html[/url] ([url]http://bronzeagebabies.blogspot.com/2012/02/gary-friedrich-situation-of-corporate.html[/url])


You brought up Siegel and Shuster. They, too sadly signed away the rights to their creation, with no idea of just how massive the property would become. Comic book creators in the 30's and 40's had to work their asses off just to make ends meet (I understand in a way it's still like that!), and they had no idea what impact their work would or would not make on future generations. They did it because they loved it, and sadly were never properly compensated for their efforts.

It seems to be that way in a lot of the creative fields. I know people like Robert Fripp have been very vocal about how the recording industry sucks the life out of artists, without giving a damn about them as creators. The creators create the product, and see very little in monetary compensation for their efforts. One good thing the internet has done is allow musicians direct access to their fans in a way that doesn't involve touring or mass mailings. These musicians can reap the benefits of their creativity with more control.
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Creature Features on February 19, 2012, 12:33:37 PM
I'm  just curious; how was Bob Kane able to keep the rights to Batman, yet  many of his contempoaries at the time, Siegel & Shuster , Simon & Kirby etc., had to give up the rights to THEIR creations?
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Illoman on February 19, 2012, 12:42:42 PM
I'm  just curious; how was Bob Kane able to keep the rights to Batman, yet  many of his contempoaries at the time, Siegel & Shuster , Simon & Kirby etc., had to give up the rights to THEIR creations?

Perhaps he was more business savvy than S&S. This is from wikipedia:

Kane, who had already submitted the proposal for Batman at DC and held a contract, is the only person given official company credit for Batman's creation. Comics historian Ron Goulart, in Comic Book Encyclopedia, refers to Batman as the "creation of artist Bob Kane and writer Bill Finger".[11]

Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Creature Features on February 19, 2012, 02:35:47 PM
Perhaps he was more business savvy than S&S. This is from wikipedia:

Kane, who had already submitted the proposal for Batman at DC and held a contract, is the only person given official company credit for Batman's creation. Comics historian Ron Goulart, in Comic Book Encyclopedia, refers to Batman as the "creation of artist Bob Kane and writer Bill Finger".[11]

Yet i've heard Bill Finger  died nearly penniless...
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Scary Terry on February 19, 2012, 03:16:44 PM
Kane's father was a lawyer.  There's more to the story -- but too long to tell here....
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: jimm on February 19, 2012, 03:22:07 PM
Not much has changed in 70 years
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Anton Phibes on February 19, 2012, 04:42:35 PM
It aint just comics. Hollywood's "Golden Age" had the same action going on. Jack Pierce may have gotten credit for the make ups for the classic monsters, but let his family try to use those make ups on another feature. They'd be sued into oblivion...............
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Gillfan on February 19, 2012, 08:25:42 PM
Not really. They've been trying to relaunch the comic for years now, but it keeps failing.  And the last movie did NOTHING to increase sales, or even keep the book afloat. Sad to say, but their money is probably better spent elsewhere.


According to sales data the increase was around 10%, plus significant sales of a new issue #1 that was, coiincidentally, releases the same month the film opened.

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales.html (http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales.html)

also, here's a retailer that said new customers came in

http://www.sequentialtart.com/article.php?id=531 (http://www.sequentialtart.com/article.php?id=531)

even a bad movie, like League Of Extraordinary Gentleman, can increase comic and graphic novel sales.
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Creature Features on February 19, 2012, 08:48:58 PM
According to sales data the increase was around 10%, plus significant sales of a new issue #1 that was, coiincidentally, releases the same month the film opened.

[url]http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales.html[/url] ([url]http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales.html[/url])

also, here's a retailer that said new customers came in

[url]http://www.sequentialtart.com/article.php?id=531[/url] ([url]http://www.sequentialtart.com/article.php?id=531[/url])

even a bad movie, like League Of Extraordinary Gentleman, can increase comic and graphic novel sales.



 Well, im certainly glad you were able to find ONE retailer who got increased sales, For all the good it did. The book still has since been cancelled, re-launched with a FEMALE GR, and cancelled yet again.
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Creature Features on February 19, 2012, 08:52:59 PM
It aint just comics. Hollywood's "Golden Age" had the same action going on. Jack Pierce may have gotten credit for the make ups for the classic monsters, but let his family try to use those make ups on another feature. They'd be sued into oblivion...............

I've heard Millicent Patrick never received proper credit for her Creature designs either.
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Gillfan on February 22, 2012, 06:43:08 AM
They are raising funds for him.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/02/13/neal-adams-addresses-comics-industry/ (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/02/13/neal-adams-addresses-comics-industry/)
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Hepcat on February 22, 2012, 12:44:51 PM
So he tries to claim some of what should rightfully be his....

Rightfully his? Come on. Not if it's something he previously agreed to sell to Marvel, and he did. He just regrets it now.

And while creators' ownership would be a boon to creators, it certainly would not be to the buyers' of comic books. Just imagine Green Lantern as a member of the JLA one day, and then suddenly a complete stranger with no past in the Marvel universe the next day simply because his creator/owner jumped ship for a better offer.

...(and a court system that tends to favor corporations over individuals)....

It's actually just the opposite that's the case. People often sue big companies these days on the chance that a jury might sympathize with the little guy. This only serves to enrich lawyers and we all end up paying higher liability insurance rates as a result.

I think Marvel is being both petty and vindictive....

Marvel is quite simply making a statement, "You better not sue us because if you do, we're going to hit back hard."

Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Moonshadow on February 22, 2012, 01:03:50 PM
Marvel is quite simply making a statement, "You better not sue us because if you do, we're going to hit back hard."

And they have every right to do so. But considering Friedrich is nearly destitute, it's still petty and vindictive. I think the fact that Friedrich lost his case already sent a message to those considering a similar action.

Beyond the moral questions, it's also a boneheaded move from a PR perspective. Marvel looks like the big corporate giant beating up on a former employee. Not a good image any time, but especially not nowadays.
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Hepcat on February 22, 2012, 02:06:23 PM
...it's also a boneheaded move from a PR perspective. Marvel looks like the big corporate giant beating up on a former employee. Not a good image any time, but especially not nowadays.

Oh, I agree! Marvel's actions have not played well with comic book fans at all.


Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Count_Zirock on February 22, 2012, 02:23:08 PM
Marvel looks like the big corporate giant beating up on a former employee. Not a good image any time, but especially not nowadays.
That's because they are the big corporate giant beating up on a former employee.
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Hepcat on June 12, 2020, 09:36:33 PM
A former employee who of his own volition chose to sue them thus forcing them to incur mega legal fees.

 ???
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Rex fury on June 13, 2020, 09:39:19 AM
While I have reservations about claims of who created whom, I hope Gary did eventually receive enough support to sustain his livelihood. Characters who fall into the public domain should be acknowledged as such and their true origins should be noted.  Im not sure that when Marvel first used any of the M.E. characters they were actually in the public domain. However, to my reckoning, no one raised the issue.
RF
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: BigShadow on June 14, 2020, 02:09:02 PM
I've been boycotting new Marvel for about three years now.  They began to interject too much social politics and virtue signaling that it took away from the story and the character mythos.  Due to them also hiring writers and artists based on their race and gender instead of qualifications, the stories and artwork suffered greatly.  DC Comics was a much better choice and kept up with quality comics.  There were even a couple independent publishers that put out quality books. 
Title: Re: I'm boycotting Marvel Comics for a bit.
Post by: Hepcat on August 17, 2020, 09:31:07 AM
I've been boycotting new Marvel for about three years now.  They began to interject too much social politics and virtue signaling that it took away from the story and the character mythos.  Due to them also hiring writers and artists based on their race and gender instead of qualifications, the stories and artwork suffered greatly.

I believe comic creator/writer Richard Meyer has done a lot recently to expose such waggery.

 :-\